# Some personal takeaways you have as the dust settles on the 2016 election

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-personal-takeaways-you-have-as-the-dust-settles-on-the-2016-election/772299>\
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion\
**Created:** [November 18, 2016, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-personal-takeaways-you-have-as-the-dust-settles-on-the-2016-election/772299 "2016-11-18T01:44:58Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 3

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**Author:** ![purplehearingaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@purplehearingaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehearingaid)\
**Post date:** [November 19, 2016, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-personal-takeaways-you-have-as-the-dust-settles-on-the-2016-election/772299/41 "2016-11-19T17:25:33Z")

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Being a Jewish woman I wonder if I we to have a Star David sewed to my coat now !

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**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\
**Post date:** [November 19, 2016, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-personal-takeaways-you-have-as-the-dust-settles-on-the-2016-election/772299/42 "2016-11-19T17:48:01Z")

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> [@monstro](#):
>
> At least, not when you’re running from president.

😃

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**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\
**Post date:** [November 19, 2016, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-personal-takeaways-you-have-as-the-dust-settles-on-the-2016-election/772299/43 "2016-11-19T18:03:15Z")

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> [@John\_Mace](#):
>
> I thought the right-wingers were bad, but I’ve never seen a worse bunch of sore losers and crybabies in my life. I cringe when I hear the words “president-elect Trump” and I loath the idea of seeing his mug on TV for the next 4 years. But I have faith in the American system of government, and since he’s the one we elected… so be it. Let’s all put on our big-boy/gal pants and get on with our lives. There will be another election and we’ll be able to boot him the hell out if “we” want.

Right, everyone; time to shut up; you’re annoying **John Mace**.

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**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\
**Post date:** [November 19, 2016, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-personal-takeaways-you-have-as-the-dust-settles-on-the-2016-election/772299/44 "2016-11-19T18:16:02Z")

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> [@purplehearingaid](#):
>
> Being a Jewish woman I wonder if I we to have a Star David sewed to my coat now !

US Jews disappointed with Trump need to look in the mirror. The right leaning Israeli’s are ecstatic with the election results and AIPAC’s reaction is basically silence. While left leaning US Jews may be horrified many right leaning and Israel focused US Jews supported and voted for Trump and are more than willing to have some alt right anti-Semites floating around in the punch bowl around as long as they get what they want re Israel.

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**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\
**Post date:** [November 19, 2016, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-personal-takeaways-you-have-as-the-dust-settles-on-the-2016-election/772299/45 "2016-11-19T18:23:59Z")

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> [@El\_Kabong](#):
>
> Right, everyone; time to shut up; you’re annoying **John Mace**.

John Mace has a point the public huffing, crying and wailing, exam cancelling, “What will I tell my kid?” drama queenery by some people and groups on the left is insanely embarrassing. It’s almost a parody of how you would expect a hyper sensitive snowflake to react and yet you see it happening in real life. It’s mortifying and those on the Trump right are laughing in tickled delight at such antics.

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**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\
**Post date:** [November 19, 2016, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-personal-takeaways-you-have-as-the-dust-settles-on-the-2016-election/772299/46 "2016-11-19T18:34:55Z")

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> [@astro](#):
>
> John Mace has a point the public huffing, crying and wailing, exam cancelling, “What will I tell my kid?” drama queenery by some people and groups on the left is insanely embarrassing. It’s almost a parody of how you would expect a hyper sensitive snowflake to react and yet you see it happening in real life. It’s mortifying and those on the Trump right are laughing in tickled delight at such antics.

I’m merely suggesting that this sort of complaining about complaining is likely to incentivize some folks into making a point about free speech by complaining all the harder. Pretty soon it’ll be complaints all the way down.

One might want to consider just letting the hand-wringing die out on its own, which it likely will, at least until we start to notice the crowded buses headed for the camps. 🙂

(Not that I really think that will happen. I mean, I hope not.)

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**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\
**Post date:** [November 19, 2016, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-personal-takeaways-you-have-as-the-dust-settles-on-the-2016-election/772299/47 "2016-11-19T19:21:59Z")

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> [@monstro](#):
>
> You can be super intelligent, well-credentialed, hard working, well-prepared, and sharp in every way. But if you have a vagina, none of that means anything.

This election wasn’t about gender, it was about change vs. status quo. If the Democrats had run an anti-establishment, pro-change woman and the Republicans run a status quo, establishment man, the Democratic woman would have easily won.

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**Author:** ![Lee\_Q](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/aeb1de/32.png) [@Lee\_Q](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lee_Q)\
**Post date:** [November 19, 2016, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-personal-takeaways-you-have-as-the-dust-settles-on-the-2016-election/772299/48 "2016-11-19T23:48:24Z")

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> [@monstro](#):
>
> My take-away:
> 
> 1. You can be super intelligent, well-credentialed, hard working, well-prepared, and sharp in every way. But if you have a vagina, none of that means anything. At least, not when you’re running from president.
> 
> 2. That the electoral college shouldn’t call any shots when the difference in popular vote counts is in the millions.
> 
> 3. People only care about how they will be affected by something. They don’t care about how it will affect other people.
> 
> 4. The Republicans can no longer make hay on morality and character issues. Even if Trump turns out to be the Best President Evah, they elected an asshole. We’re never going to forget that.

I agree with you about all of these. And regarding #1, so far I’ve read a handful of posts disagreeing that Clinton’s gender was an issue. Which from where I sit only validates your point.

Also several comments talking about living in a “bubble” and I wonder what kind of bubble people live in if they genuinely believe sexism is dead in America. Dead! And that Hillary lost because she’s not charismatic, that’s all. No sexism to see here, move along! Maybe the same kind of bubble that allows some people to apparently believe we’re also “post racial” or that there’s really no racism to speak of in America anymore.

Riiiiiight…

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**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\
**Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-personal-takeaways-you-have-as-the-dust-settles-on-the-2016-election/772299/49 "2016-11-20T01:24:05Z")

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> [@Lee\_Q](#):
>
> regarding #1, so far I’ve read a handful of posts disagreeing that Clinton’s gender was an issue. Which from where I sit only validates your point.

So agreeing that Clinton’s gender was an issue proves that her gender was an issue, but disagreeing that her gender was an issue likewise proves that her gender was an issue?

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**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\
**Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-personal-takeaways-you-have-as-the-dust-settles-on-the-2016-election/772299/50 "2016-11-20T01:42:56Z")

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> [@Velocity](#):
>
> This election wasn’t about gender, it was about change vs. status quo.

What needed changing? Were the swing voters concerned that things were going too well?

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**Author:** ![Lee\_Q](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/aeb1de/32.png) [@Lee\_Q](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lee_Q)\
**Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-personal-takeaways-you-have-as-the-dust-settles-on-the-2016-election/772299/51 "2016-11-20T01:48:33Z")

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> [@Velocity](#):
>
> So agreeing that Clinton’s gender was an issue proves that her gender was an issue, but disagreeing that her gender was an issue likewise proves that her gender was an issue?

Not quite. Neither agreeing nor disagreeing “proves” anything.

Here’s how I see it:

1. I believe sexism has a lot to do with why Clinton lost. That’s the basis for my agreement that gender was a factor.

2. I believe sexism exists because some people devalue women. (To put it simply.) When you devalue someone, it’s easier to ignore, overlook, or even **legitimately not even recognize** their mistreatment or abuse.

3. I believe the reason some people disagree that sexism was a factor in this election is that they are ignoring or dismissing the many, many recordings of people at Trump rallies, on social media and the internet more broadly, and - most importantly - in the general population expressing overtly and repeatedly not just sexist but sometimes violently sexist attitudes and opinions about Hillary Clinton. They are also ignoring the many occasions of people in the media - including the “liberal” media - who throughout the campaign thought it appropriate to comment on her wardrobe and, say, her voice or the way she laughs, and otherwise scrutinize elements of her very person that have nothing to do with her ability to hold office. There is a reason people ignore or dismiss these phenomena. See #2.

Since #3 is attributable to #2, in my view, yes, “disagreement” that gender was a factor does indeed validate the notion that gender _was_ a factor.

Dizzy yet? 😉

The good news is, we are free to agree or disagree. For now. :eek: 😃

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**Author:** ![purplehearingaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@purplehearingaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehearingaid)\
**Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-personal-takeaways-you-have-as-the-dust-settles-on-the-2016-election/772299/52 "2016-11-20T03:23:21Z")

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> [@astro](#):
>
> US Jews disappointed with Trump need to look in the mirror. The right leaning Israeli’s are ecstatic with the election results and AIPAC’s reaction is basically silence. While left leaning US Jews may be horrified many right leaning and Israel focused US Jews supported and voted for Trump and are more than willing to have some alt right anti-Semites floating around in the punch bowl around as long as they get what they want re Israel.

[http://www.newsday.com/news/new-york/adam-yauch-playground-in-brooklyn-vandalized-swastikas-and-go-trump-painted-on-equipment-1.12641713](http://www.newsday.com/news/new-york/adam-yauch-playground-in-brooklyn-vandalized-swastikas-and-go-trump-painted-on-equipment-1.12641713)

This is not acceptable ! No I don’t need to take a look in any god damn mirror ! People better wake up before it too late ! There is going to be more of this happening ! My daughter went to a play at the middle school her child goes to and some kids were acting very disrespectful and rude and my daughter told the kids to stop b/c she couldn’t hear the play and the kids said they acting this b/c Trump does it and won !

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**Author:** ![race\_to\_the\_bottom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c4cdca/32.png) [@race\_to\_the\_bottom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/race_to_the_bottom)\
**Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-personal-takeaways-you-have-as-the-dust-settles-on-the-2016-election/772299/53 "2016-11-20T07:17:55Z")

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A perfect storm allowed the extreme right to take state power. A combination of the establishment Democratic Party’s strategy of Identity Politics, long history of trade deals resulting in a gutting of the country’s manufacturing base, a weak candidate, Hillary Clinton, who personified these deals, a personal antipathy to that candidate, and an energetic candidate, Trump, who could skillfully exploit the weaknesses.

Clinton was arguably the only Democrat Trump could have beaten.

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**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\
**Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-personal-takeaways-you-have-as-the-dust-settles-on-the-2016-election/772299/54 "2016-11-20T11:26:43Z")

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My take aways:

Democracy is a horrible form of government.

Both the liberals and the Trump supports are ignorant, self righteous buffoons who live for the circle jerk of party politics. Many liberals are pasnsies to boot.

People have zero qualms operating under blatant double standards. They will criticize their opponents for the same things they do themselves. When confronted with this fact they will sputter out “but it’s different when we do it”, or the even more childish “but they do it too.”

Very, very few people are actual interested in seeing another’s point of view, and of the few who try, their preconceived notions make the effort pointless.

Both sides see politics as a means to power which will allow them to force their will on others. This is morally contemptible.

Liberals in particular also see politics as a performative act whereby they prove how closely they adhere to orthodoxy. They confuse this conformity with moral worth. This is both morally contemptible and nauseating.

If any of the above offends you, then you are part of the probem.

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**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\
**Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-personal-takeaways-you-have-as-the-dust-settles-on-the-2016-election/772299/55 "2016-11-20T12:09:47Z")

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^^ That’s a very parochial view.

The USA has particular difficulties for reasons other democracies avoid.

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**Author:** ![purplehearingaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@purplehearingaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehearingaid)\
**Post date:** [November 20, 2016, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-personal-takeaways-you-have-as-the-dust-settles-on-the-2016-election/772299/56 "2016-11-20T21:40:49Z")

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Trump is a person of color , he has orange skin !

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**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\
**Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-personal-takeaways-you-have-as-the-dust-settles-on-the-2016-election/772299/57 "2016-11-21T02:52:19Z")

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> [@Waymore](#):
>
> Both the liberals and the Trump supports are ignorant, self righteous buffoons who live for the circle jerk of party politics. Many liberals are pasnsies to boot.
> 
> People have zero qualms operating under blatant double standards. They will criticize their opponents for the same things they do themselves. When confronted with this fact they will sputter out “but it’s different when we do it”, or the even more childish “but they do it too.”
> 
> Very, very few people are actual interested in seeing another’s point of view, and of the few who try, their preconceived notions make the effort pointless.
> 
> Both sides see politics as a means to power which will allow them to force their will on others. This is morally contemptible.
> 
> Liberals in particular also see politics as a performative act whereby they prove how closely they adhere to orthodoxy. They confuse this conformity with moral worth. This is both morally contemptible and nauseating.
> 
> If any of the above offends you, then you are part of the probem.

Not offended, but I disagree. Am I allowed to do that?

Statements like “Liberals in particular also see politics as a performative act whereby they prove how closely they adhere to orthodoxy.” sound like the typical baseless stereotyping that avoids actually having to engage with people’s positions and why they support them. Do you have any examples of this phenomenon?

Since the election concerned, well, the whole electorate, I’m sure you can find whatever personality trait you can think of. But when you make broad statements about “liberals” it’s not clear whether you’re talking about some, most or all politicians, or some, most or all liberal-leaning individuals.

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**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\
**Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-personal-takeaways-you-have-as-the-dust-settles-on-the-2016-election/772299/58 "2016-11-21T04:04:46Z")

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> [@Mijin](#):
>
> Not offended, but I disagree. Am I allowed to do that?

Suit yourself. Act how you want and I’ll have opinions about that behavior. I expect you to do the same, but don’t wait for me to ask permission.

> [@Mijin](#):
>
> Statements like “Liberals in particular also see politics as a performative act whereby they prove how closely they adhere to orthodoxy.” sound like the typical baseless stereotyping that avoids actually having to engage with people’s positions and why they support them. Do you have any examples of this phenomenon?

This board is chockablock with examples, as is the culture writ large. I’ve engaged with the opinions of others and this isn’t a baseless stereotype, but an observation I’ve made from observing the political discourse in this country since the late 80s.

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**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\
**Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-personal-takeaways-you-have-as-the-dust-settles-on-the-2016-election/772299/59 "2016-11-21T08:02:03Z")

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> [@Waymore](#):
>
> Suit yourself. Act how you want and I’ll have opinions about that behavior. I expect you to do the same, but don’t wait for me to ask permission.

I was actually asking sarcastically since your “if you’re offended by [this], you’re part of the problem” smacks of poisoning the well.

> [@](#):
>
> This board is chockablock with examples, as is the culture writ large.

So it should be no problem to find one example, right?

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Waymore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Waymore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waymore)\
**Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-personal-takeaways-you-have-as-the-dust-settles-on-the-2016-election/772299/60 "2016-11-21T08:28:04Z")

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> [@Mijin](#):
>
> I was actually asking sarcastically since your “if you’re offended by [this], you’re part of the problem” smacks of poisoning the well.?

The well was poisoned long before I came to this board.

> [@Mijin](#):
>
> So it should be no problem to find one example, right?

Link:\<[http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/entertainthis/2016/11/14/oprah-explains-her-controversial-trump-tweet-calls-civility/93791238/&gt](http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/entertainthis/2016/11/14/oprah-explains-her-controversial-trump-tweet-calls-civility/93791238/&gt);

I can’t get the feature to embed links to work, so you can visit the above if you’re so inclined.

Take for instance the fact that Oprah had to apologize for expressing hope that a Trump victory might not be so bad after all.

Take for instance the thread on this board where Dopers shared how physically distraught they were after the election.

All of PC culture is predicated on conformity of speech and opinion.

It all betrays a desire to show adhesion to the group, and it’s sickening. It reminds me of the mourners at Kim Jung Il’s funeral trying to out grieve one another.

But of course, I’m speculating on what motivates people. I won’t be able to prove it to your satisfaction.

Yet, on this very board it’s been argued that all Trump voters are dumb and/or evil, that white females have internalized misogyny since 53% of them voted for Trump, and that thinking all Trump supporters are closet racist IS different from thinking all Muslims are closet terrorists.

Liberals speculate on why their opponents act the way they do. They shouldn’t get mad when those opponents do the same.

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