# Some questions about NYC history
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-questions-about-nyc-history/204561
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [September 29, 2003, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-questions-about-nyc-history/204561 "2003-09-29T22:09:58Z")
**Posts on this page:** 8
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Sinshine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinshine)
#### Post date: [September 29, 2003, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-questions-about-nyc-history/204561/1 "2003-09-29T22:09:58Z")
I’m slow to watch the movies. I wait until they are out on video, so as to enjoy talking back to the television set.
So, I just saw _Gangs of New York_ for the first time this weekend. And as much as the brutality of the main characters bothered me, what truly caught my attention was the historic background. And I keep wondering about its accuracy.
I am Canadian, and so NYC history never really came up in school. I don’t even have the basics of how the city developed, although I know that it was a major immigration point during the nineteenth century, and that, typical of human nature, those who had lived in NYC a generation or two were pretty tough on the potato-famine Irish, in particular. I realize this lack of charity likely extended to anyone getting off the boats without a clue, but I _have_ read an account or two of the treatment the Irish got. Not exhaustive, but enough to give a rough idea.
It had never occured to me, for example, to wonder where the Union army got all their soldiers. In GNY, the strong young men getting off the boat were told “Sign here. You’re an American citizen. Sign there. Welcome to the army, son.” Is this even remotely factual? Can someone direct me to an even-handed account of this kind of conscription?
In addition, there was a lot of emphasis put on a riot that took over the city, in opposition to a draft order in which, if you had $300 (which seems to me like a fortune in that economy) you could buy your way out, but every able-bodied male lacking that option were to serve in the Union army. The riot itself raged to the point that, in the movie, the Navy (which Navy?) actually fired on the city from the harbour. The voice-over near the end made a comment that sounded - to my uninformed ears - like the men intended to be drafted mostly died in the riots. Again, how factual is that? Resources?
So, educate me. Books, websites, et cetera. 😃
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### Author:  [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)
#### Post date: [September 29, 2003, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-questions-about-nyc-history/204561/2 "2003-09-29T22:36:35Z")
Immigrants were indeed recruited into the Union army, though I don’t know if the scene in GONY was accurate. The conscription riots were one of the worst violent episodes in NYC’s history, but the navy did _not_ shell the city as depicted in the movie.
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### Author:  [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)
#### Post date: [September 29, 2003, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-questions-about-nyc-history/204561/3 "2003-09-29T22:57:45Z")
[One cite](http://www.disaster-management.net/ny_di.htm)
> [@](#):
>
> **1863 July 13th. -15th.** Riots the 1863 Conscription Act allowed wealthy draftees to buy their way out of the Civil War by paying $300. At that time 815,000 people lived in NYC, including more than 200,000 Irish people in extreme poverty; in the three days of rioting 2,000 people died (including 60 soldiers), 10,000 were wounded (including 300 soldiers) and the Conscription Act was suspended in NYC.
And [here](http://www.vny.cuny.edu/draftriots/Intro/draft_riot_intro_set.html) is a good history of that series of events.
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### Author:  [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2003, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-questions-about-nyc-history/204561/4 "2003-09-30T01:33:26Z")
Scorcese played fast and loose with the time line, and I’m sure there were many distortions and inaccuracies. However, most of the major events depicted in the movie did occur. In particular, the 1863 Draft Riots did largely involve the Irish who were provoked by conscription and its inequities, and they did destroy large parts of the city.
My great-great grandfather was an Irish famine immigrant who came over about 1839. He wasn’t drafted, though; he enlisted almost as soon as the war started, in 1861. He served in the fairly safe forts around Washington, but accepted a bonus of $300 to re-enlist in 1864 when his original term was almost up. (As far as I know, this didn’t involve taking the place of a conscript.) A bad move on his part, since he ended up being captured at Petersburg and, ironically for a refugee from the Great Famine, died of starvation in the Andersonville prison camp later that year.
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### Author:  [@Sinshine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinshine)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2003, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-questions-about-nyc-history/204561/5 "2003-09-30T01:51:23Z")
Well, I read the Virtual New York (VNY) account of the riots, and I notice that there is information on that cite which conflicts with the infor in the quote **UncleBill** provided, in that VNY states the riots lasts 5 days, and that 119 were killed over that time, and the quote indicates that 2,000 died in three days.
Something else in the movie I wanted to verify, after thinking about it, was a portion wherein Tweed (a real guy, according to VNY) instructed Leo & Cameron to go get him some votes, and they raided opium dens and other flop-houses, forcibly made their victims presentable, and marched them through the voting polls, sometimes more than once.
I have heard what I deemed to be urban legend, that in early elections across the continent (and its doubtful Canada would have been immune), votes outnumbered voters by amusing margins. Or appalling, depending on the cynicism of your point of view.
One of my favourite pastimes with movies set against historically profound events is to debunk the movie. I know full well that scripts have to time-warp things to get all that drama into 140 screen minutes, but it’s a great way to bone up on history.
At least its in vogue for authors doing something similar to 'fess up in the Author’s Note at the end of the book. I only wish directors were more forthcoming about where and how they took artistic licence.
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### Author:  [@Sinshine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinshine)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2003, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-questions-about-nyc-history/204561/6 "2003-09-30T01:55:58Z")
Well, I read the Virtual New York (VNY) account of the riots, and I notice that there is information on that cite which conflicts with the infor in the quote **UncleBill** provided, in that VNY states the riots lasts 5 days, and that 119 were killed over that time, and the quote indicates that 2,000 died in three days.
Something else in the movie I wanted to verify, after thinking about it, was a portion wherein Tweed (a real guy, according to VNY) instructed Leo & Cameron to go get him some votes, and they raided opium dens and other flop-houses, forcibly made their victims presentable, and marched them through the voting polls, sometimes more than once.
I have heard what I deemed to be urban legend, that in early elections across the continent (and its doubtful Canada would have been immune), votes outnumbered voters by amusing margins. Or appalling, depending on the cynicism of your point of view.
One of my favourite pastimes with movies set against historically profound events is to debunk the movie. I know full well that scripts have to time-warp things to get all that drama into 140 screen minutes, but it’s a great way to bone up on history.
At least its in vogue for authors doing something similar to 'fess up in the Author’s Note at the end of the book. I only wish directors were more forthcoming about where and how they took artistic licence.
**Colibri** , I think it’s marvellous that you know this about your great-great-grandfather. A lot of people I know, don’t even know such a gentleman’s name on their family tree.
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### Author:  [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2003, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-questions-about-nyc-history/204561/7 "2003-09-30T02:08:04Z")
For an interesting biography of Tweed, **Sinshine** , check out _Boss Tweed_ by Seymour Mandelbaum.
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### Author:  [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2003, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-questions-about-nyc-history/204561/8 "2003-09-30T02:10:12Z")
Oops - I got confused. There are two books: _Boss Tweed’s New York_, by Seymour Mandelbaum, and _Boss Tweed_ by Denis Lynch. The latter is a lot more interesting, IMHO.