# Some Questions on Anne Frank **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 8, 2009, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-questions-on-anne-frank/513005 "2009-10-08T01:15:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-questions-on-anne-frank/513005/41 "2009-10-10T15:42:57Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Not menstruation, but the fact that you finally got it. Every girl in my class was dying to hear “you’re a woman now.” I got mad as hell that my cousin (several months younger) got her first period before I did (I got mine two days after her). I never understood that, but it is pretty common. I would read those Judy Blume books where they were all, “I WANT TO BLEED,” and think, “No, PLUG ME UP FOREVER!” ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-questions-on-anne-frank/513005/42 "2009-10-10T15:51:11Z")
Rite of passage. You went from being a child to being a teenager (in Spanish the word doesn’t involve any numerical root, unlike in English, so it’s not linked to the calendar). ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2009, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-questions-on-anne-frank/513005/43 "2009-10-10T15:56:55Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Rite of passage. You went from being a child to being a teenager (in Spanish the word doesn’t involve any numerical root, unlike in English, so it’s not linked to the calendar). Yeah, but nothing changes. It’s like when people lose their virginity and think they’re so mature but all that changes is you know what a let down real sex is. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2009, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-questions-on-anne-frank/513005/44 "2009-10-23T02:29:32Z")
I’ve read Anne Frank’s entry on her desire to kiss and touch the breasts of a girlfriend and her getting ecstatic from female nude statues. So any evidence she had any lesbian and/or bisexual tendencies. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2009, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-questions-on-anne-frank/513005/45 "2009-12-13T01:25:18Z")
Did Anne have the Electra complex (the female version of the Oedipus complex) toward her father? Because reading her diary it certainly sounds like so. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2009, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-questions-on-anne-frank/513005/46 "2009-12-13T13:03:38Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > I’ve read Anne Frank’s entry on her desire to kiss and touch the breasts of a girlfriend and her getting ecstatic from female nude statues. So any evidence she had any lesbian and/or bisexual tendencies. > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Did Anne have the Electra complex (the female version of the Oedipus complex) toward her father? Because reading her diary it certainly sounds like so. You seem to think such “complexes” are real things that can be objectively measured. Sorry, that isn’t the case. Somebody had an oedipus complex when an autority he believes in, says he has. it is not much different from believing some kid is “cool”, or “hip” or square or a loser because the most popular group of girls diagnosed him as such. More name-calling then science, actually. But, sigh, As long as you are working with classic Freudian concepts, Freud supposed _every_ little boy had an Oedipus complex and every girl had an electra complex. It was a normal part of growing up, and therapy was supposed to make people aware of that phase in their early youth. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2009, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-questions-on-anne-frank/513005/47 "2009-12-13T13:09:02Z")
Electra complex…is that when you’re afraid that every bar you go into is going to have a sexy blonde singer wearing a blue dress and fuck-me boots standing next to a piano at the back of it, who then rips off her dress, takes out an electrified whip, and starts attacking you? ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2009, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-questions-on-anne-frank/513005/48 "2009-12-13T13:24:07Z")
**Curtis,** tell your teacher that this kind of literature or psychology science has been out of date for about 15 years now. Nowadays, students taking writing classes actually learn to write a good story, instead of pointing out oedipus complexes and symbols, which, if you think about it, can be just as easily “found” in bad novels, as in good ones and doesn’t do squat for the reading experience. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-questions-on-anne-frank/513005/49 "2009-12-14T03:46:17Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > You seem to think such “complexes” are real things that can be objectively measured. Sorry, that isn’t the case. Somebody had an oedipus complex when an autority he believes in, says he has. it is not much different from believing some kid is “cool”, or “hip” or square or a loser because the most popular group of girls diagnosed him as such. More name-calling then science, actually. > > But, sigh, As long as you are working with classic Freudian concepts, Freud supposed _every_ little boy had an Oedipus complex and every girl had an electra complex. It was a normal part of growing up, and therapy was supposed to make people aware of that phase in their early youth. Well it seems Anne (from her diary) has her Electra complex far longer than the usual time (till about eight or so). > [@Maastricht](#): > > **Curtis,** tell your teacher that this kind of literature or psychology science has been out of date for about 15 years now. Nowadays, students taking writing classes actually learn to write a good story, instead of pointing out oedipus complexes and symbols, which, if you think about it, can be just as easily “found” in bad novels, as in good ones and doesn’t do squat for the reading experience. My teacher isn’t pointing this out. I’m thinking and working on this personally. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-questions-on-anne-frank/513005/50 "2009-12-14T03:59:31Z")
A lot of girls get along better with their fathers than their mothers. My sister always did as a girl. I don’t know that it requires a complex to explain it. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-questions-on-anne-frank/513005/51 "2009-12-14T04:13:06Z")
The other thing to keep in mind, as was mentioned earlier in this thread, you’re dealing with a situation where 8 people are trapped in a confined space with each other for two years, unable to make any noise and terrified. People are bound to become a little bit squirrely and relationships are bound to get strained in a situation like that. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-questions-on-anne-frank/513005/52 "2009-12-14T05:07:40Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Are you saying that she had sexual intercourse with Peter or not? Did she die a virgin or not? Given that they were eventually discovered and hauled off to prison camps, there’s a very good chance that even if she left the hiding place a virgin she didn’t die one - rape was quite common in those days. ---
**Author:** ![Shmendrik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shmendrik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shmendrik)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-questions-on-anne-frank/513005/53 "2009-12-14T05:39:19Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Given that they were eventually discovered and hauled off to prison camps, there’s a very good chance that even if she left the hiding place a virgin she didn’t die one - rape was quite common in those days. Cite? Given the dire consequences for an Aryan who had sex with a Jew, I doubt it was as common as you suggest. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-questions-on-anne-frank/513005/54 "2009-12-14T07:13:47Z")
The concentration camps were also segregated by sex, and the female camps were usually run by female guards. This isn’t to say rape didn’t happen, but it wasn’t a regular event. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-questions-on-anne-frank/513005/55 "2009-12-14T11:56:34Z")
> [@Shmendrik](#): > > Cite? Given the dire consequences for an Aryan who had sex with a Jew, I doubt it was as common as you suggest. My only “cite” are those I know who survived the war and told me - obviously, I can’t link to them on line. Either a whole lot of those people were lying to me, or rapes did occur. Not to every woman, of course, but they were far from rare. After all, who was the woman going to complain to? Jews were beaten and killed with impunity, why do you think the Nazis would balk at rape? Sex between Aryans and Jews might have been forbidden but the law didn’t stop it from happening. The camps may have been segregated, but what about the interval between capture and arrival in the camp? And even if the camps _were_ segregated, Nazis frequently used the women for various purposes. Including sex Some of it “consensual” in that some women didn’t resist, as it was one strategy for obtaining sufficient food to live on and surviving awhile longer. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-questions-on-anne-frank/513005/56 "2009-12-14T14:47:02Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > And even if the camps _were_ segregated, Nazis frequently used the women for various purposes. Including sex Some of it “consensual” in that some women didn’t resist, as it was one strategy for obtaining sufficient food to live on and surviving awhile longer. Sure, of course. But you were talking like it was a universal experience…that pretty much everyone was raped, and that wasn’t the case. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-questions-on-anne-frank/513005/57 "2009-12-14T16:28:28Z")
Well, I don’t know how you went from “quite common” to “universal” in your own mind, but that was not what I said. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2009, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-questions-on-anne-frank/513005/58 "2009-12-14T23:41:01Z")
My two cents on the concentration camps and rapes that went on there was that non-Jewish women were since they weren’t considered by the Nazis as to be totally worthy of extermination like the Jews were more likely to be raped or used as prostitutes and etc. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2009, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-questions-on-anne-frank/513005/59 "2009-12-15T02:45:57Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Well, I don’t know how you went from “quite common” to “universal” in your own mind, but that was not what I said. But it wasn’t quite common for Jews to be raped. It was almost unknown for Jews to be raped. If she was a Polish or Russian gentile, then maybe, but the Nazis very rarely raped Jewish prisoners. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2009, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-questions-on-anne-frank/513005/60 "2009-12-15T02:52:57Z")
Can you prove that statement? Because it’s not like the Nazis were nice people, you know. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-questions-on-anne-frank/513005.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-questions-on-anne-frank/513005.md?page=4)