# Some really random and really trivial pet peeves **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 7, 2004, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-really-random-and-really-trivial-pet-peeves/254017 "2004-07-07T21:51:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![PoorYorick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ecccb3/32.png) [@PoorYorick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PoorYorick)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2004, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-really-random-and-really-trivial-pet-peeves/254017/61 "2004-07-08T18:26:39Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > Hey dumbshits, maybe you can have your important conversation some place other than one foot in front of the doorway. Have you noticed the last few hundred people that had to squeeze past you? Preach it, brother. I hate going to the mall/WalMart/grocery store and people decide that the perfect place for a 30 minutes conversation is in the middle of the damned road! Other peeves: ~ “Literally” is a real word, not something used to emphasize other words. When you say you literally hit the roof, this means that you climbed up a ladder and whaled away with a hammer. ~ “Unique” is not a comparative. Nothing can be more or less unique than something else. It either is or it isn’t. Please stop using it if you don’t know what it means. ~ This goes for “identical,” too. ~ Oh, and please stop touching my monitor when you point things out. As I get older, my list gets longer . . . ---
**Author:** ![Exgineer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a88e4f/32.png) [@Exgineer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exgineer)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2004, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-really-random-and-really-trivial-pet-peeves/254017/62 "2004-07-08T18:42:47Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > And while we’re at it junior, yer fuckin baseball cap is on ass backwards. Yeah, and pull your damned pants up while you’re at it. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2004, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-really-random-and-really-trivial-pet-peeves/254017/63 "2004-07-08T18:57:42Z")
> [@Exgineer](#): > > Yeah, and pull your damned pants up while you’re at it. And turn that crap down, for Christ’s sake! ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2004, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-really-random-and-really-trivial-pet-peeves/254017/64 "2004-07-08T19:08:19Z")
> [@PoorYorick](#): > > Preach it, brother. I hate going to the mall/WalMart/grocery store and people decide that the perfect place for a 30 minutes conversation is in the middle of the damned road! > > Other peeves: > ~ “Literally” is a real word, not something used to emphasize other words. When you say you literally hit the roof, this means that you climbed up a ladder and whaled away with a hammer. I always tought that meant that you fell from a plane. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2004, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-really-random-and-really-trivial-pet-peeves/254017/65 "2004-07-08T19:09:49Z")
> [@Exgineer](#): > > Yeah, and pull your damned pants up while you’re at it. I hear you. I know kids have been rebelling against their parents since the beginning of time, and I’m sure my parents felt the same way about our bell-bottoms, tie-dyed shirts and long hair, but CAN’T. YOU. SEE. HOW. STUPID. YOU. LOOK? ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2004, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-really-random-and-really-trivial-pet-peeves/254017/66 "2004-07-08T19:14:42Z")
> [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#): > > I agree. One advantage of the now standard triangle and circle\* signage is that it avoids the whole problem of what to call each gender. Standard? I have seen that signage precisely _once_ - I forget where, exactly, but I think it was Thailand. I had to go elsewhere because I didn’t have a clue which was which. I just had to Google, and discovered that circle=Ladies, triangle=Gents, which is the opposite to what I would have guessed, based on the “triangular” shape of the woman’s dress in the “universal pictogram”. Seriously, are these things used much in the US? I don’t recall seeing them when I was there. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2004, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-really-random-and-really-trivial-pet-peeves/254017/67 "2004-07-08T19:49:58Z")
> [@Rabid Child](#): > > When people call apes (most notably chimpanzees) “monkeys”. They’re not monkeys. Do chimps have a tail? No, because they’re apes! But “monkeys” sounds much funnier then “apes”. ---
**Author:** ![Phedre\_no\_Delaunay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/839c29/32.png) [@Phedre\_no\_Delaunay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phedre_no_Delaunay)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2004, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-really-random-and-really-trivial-pet-peeves/254017/68 "2004-07-08T19:51:09Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > Well no offense to John Walker the early English elocutionist, but “captin” and “curtin” are not correct _either_. It’s true that the “ai” sound doesn’t get pronounced as such, but it’s replaced with a schwa sound in captain, and is dropped altogether in “curtain”. “Captin” and “curtin” are not listed as alternate pronunciations either in [dictionary.com](http://dictionary.com) nor in my copy of Webster’s. It’s just a way of indicating the schwa sound without resorting to symbols. Perhaps “captun” or “curtun” would be more to your liking? Anyway, I used the John Walker quote only to demonstrate that this is a normal pronunciation going back to at least the 1700s. It’s like the way that the word “for” is lightened to something akin to “fur” when not stressed. It’s just a part of the English language that when a syllable or a word isn’t stressed it’s going to generally become lightened. And I have to highly recommend the Charles Harrington Elster book to other word freaks like me. You may not agree with him about every word he discusses (for example, I disagree with him about guillotine) but you will appreciate _why_ he comes to his conclusions. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2004, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-really-random-and-really-trivial-pet-peeves/254017/69 "2004-07-08T20:07:33Z")
Me, I hate it when people think that words have more in common with bones dug up by archeologists than with music created by artists. I can’t stand it when people think the pronunciation and meaning of words is discovered, like the modified theory of relativity, instead of invented, like _The Iliad_. Makes me inflobbicatedly pissed off. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2004, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-really-random-and-really-trivial-pet-peeves/254017/70 "2004-07-08T20:27:07Z")
> [@PoorYorick](#): > > ~ “Unique” is not a comparative. Nothing can be more or less unique than something else. It either is or it isn’t. Please stop using it if you don’t know what it means. > > ~ This goes for “identical,” too. I agree with you about “literally” being misused, because it actually destroys the word. If someone says they were “literally beat black and blue”, you don’t know whether they mean it or not. The originally meaning, which was useful, has been lost. However, people putting non-precise modifiers in front of words like “unique” or “identical” can add shades of meaning, but doesn’t render the word useless. (Besides, John Smith might be unique among residents of New York City in that he can do some particular thing, whereas Joe Smith is unique among Americans in that he can do some more unusual particular thing. Thus, Joe Smith is more unique than John Smith.) ---
**Author:** ![LilyoftheValley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/54ee81/32.png) [@LilyoftheValley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilyoftheValley)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2004, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-really-random-and-really-trivial-pet-peeves/254017/71 "2004-07-08T20:27:16Z")
Everytime I go to the pet store, they have a shelf label for the large economy size of aspen guinea pig litter, but it is never on the shelf. The large size is so large that the shelf only has room for two packages, so every time I have to ask if there are any more in back (I can’t imagine they only get 2 at a time). I stand around while they go look. Finally they come back and say they don’t have it. I’m starting to suspect that the shelf label is all a ruse to get me to come into the store and buy the smaller more expensive bag, so as not to have wasted the trip. Now that’s a real **pet** peeve. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2004, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-really-random-and-really-trivial-pet-peeves/254017/72 "2004-07-08T20:27:46Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > Standard? I have seen that signage precisely _once_ - I forget where, exactly, but I think it was Thailand. I had to go elsewhere because I didn’t have a clue which was which. I just had to Google, and discovered that circle=Ladies, triangle=Gents, which is the opposite to what I would have guessed, based on the “triangular” shape of the woman’s dress in the “universal pictogram”. > > Seriously, are these things used much in the US? I don’t recall seeing them when I was there. Well it makes sense in a way. Women tend to be curvier and men tend to be more angular\*\*, so the women get the circle and the men get the triangle. Usually, within the triangle or circle there is also the pictogram of a figure wearing trousers or a dress, respectively. But in other contexts the circle and square, together, may be used without the figures to mean “public restrooms”. You see this on visitors’ guides to museums, amusement parks, and so on. I first noticed these signs in 1984. \*\* Not that I haven’t known many angular women and round men! ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2004, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-really-random-and-really-trivial-pet-peeves/254017/73 "2004-07-08T20:32:09Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > Me, I hate it when people think that words have more in common with bones dug up by archeologists than with music created by artists. I can’t stand it when people think the pronunciation and meaning of words is discovered, like the modified theory of relativity, instead of invented, like _The Iliad_. Makes me inflobbicatedly pissed off. > > Daniel I don’t follow you here. Language is a natural phenomenon. Some words may be invented to meet a specific need, but the nut-and-bolt words of a language do indeed just “happen”, and in that respect are like bones dug up by an archaeologist. If you don’t believe me, then tell me who invented “window”, “house”, and “barking”. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2004, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-really-random-and-really-trivial-pet-peeves/254017/74 "2004-07-08T20:38:57Z")
I answer the phones at work. There is one particular lady here who gets a lot of personal phone calls, and also does a lot of in-person socializing in various departments, with the result that when I call about something work-related, she’s hardly ever available. This morning her seven year old son called. I couldn’t locate her. A few minutes later he called back, I still couldn’t locate her, and I told him I’d let her know he’d called. Well, it was a busy morning, and sure enough, I forgot to repeatedly call the woman’s number to try and let her know. She comes up to me later, and she’s upset that I didn’t pass her message. Turns out, the seven year old was calling from our parking lot. She had left him in the car so she could do a little work before taking him to daycare (did I mention she takes off work a lot?) and the kid had set off the car alarm and was freaking out. Now, I’m terribly sorry the kid was upset. He’s a nice polite little boy, and I was wrong to forget that he had called. But lady, maybe if anybody could ever _find_ your ass, these things wouldn’t happen! And you left him in the car??? Stupid bitch! ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2004, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-really-random-and-really-trivial-pet-peeves/254017/75 "2004-07-08T20:40:38Z")
> [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#): > > I don’t follow you here. Language is a natural phenomenon. Some words may be invented to meet a specific need, but the nut-and-bolt words of a language do indeed just “happen”, and in that respect are like bones dug up by an archaeologist. If you don’t believe me, then tell me who invented “window”, “house”, and “barking”. I don’t need to tell you who invented “window,” house," and “barking”: you admit that someone did. It is true that language is not invented in the same way that the light bulb was invented; it does change over time, as people make their own changes to it, but those changes are often inadvertant. My point is that there’s no such thing as “incorrect” language: people incorrectly call changes to the language incorrect, when really they’re just changes. There **is** such a thing as standard American English–I like to call it bourgeoinics–but it has no intrinsic value over any other version of English, any more than Beethoven has intrinsic value over Duke Ellington. When people refer to an unusual pronunciation as incorrect, or a common word usage as incorrect, it demonstrates a fundamental misapprehension about the nature of language, and it bunches my knickers. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2004, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-really-random-and-really-trivial-pet-peeves/254017/76 "2004-07-08T20:41:22Z")
> [@Phèdre nó Delaunay](#): > > It’s just a way of indicating the schwa sound without resorting to symbols. Perhaps “captun” or “curtun” would be more to your liking? But it’s not the same thing. Walker is suggesting that the “a” is dropped, _leaving_ the “i” sound: > [@](#): > > When ay comes immediately after the accent in a final syllable, like ai, it drops the long A sound, in the colloquial pronunciation of the days of the week. Thus as we pronounce captain, curtain, etc. as if written captin, curtin, etc. so we hear Sunday, Monday, etc. as if written Sundy, Mondy, etc That’s just not true. We don’t drop the “a” in captain and leave the “i”, we substitute the schwa sound for the “ai” vowel blend. Walker is simply incorrect. The short ‘i’ sound is _not_ equivalent to the schwa sound. And it’s not at all analagous to the pronunciation of Sunday, Monday… Captain and curtain end in a consonant. I can’t think of any words that _end_ in a schwa sound, without a final consonant. I don’t even know if that’s possible. > [@](#): > > It’s like the way that the word “for” is lightened to something akin to “fur” when not stressed. It’s just a part of the English language that when a syllable or a word isn’t stressed it’s going to generally become lightened. But all the examples you have chosen are words that end in a consonant. With Sunday, Monday… it ends in a vowel sound, and saying Sundee, Mondee… is simply substiting the long ‘e’ sound for the long ‘a’ sound. There is no difference in the amount of stress put on the syllable. In the 1700s, did people seperate out the component sounds of the long ‘a’ sound, like aaa-eee? Maybe they did, but we sure don’t do that now. It’s just one sound. > [@](#): > > Anyway, I used the John Walker quote only to demonstrate that this is a normal pronunciation going back to at least the 1700s. I don’t know what you mean by ‘normal’, but it’s not correct. It’s a pet peeve of mine because there’s no logic to that pronunciation. I understand that when vowel sounds are unstressed, we often swallow them. But when you say “Mondee”, you’re not swallowing the long ‘a’ sound, you’re just _changing_ it to a long ‘e’ sound. I mean, I see where you’re coming from, and maybe that explains the origin of the practice, but it doesn’t make it correct, nor any less annoying. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2004, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-really-random-and-really-trivial-pet-peeves/254017/77 "2004-07-08T20:44:36Z")
> [@Jenaroph](#): > > My father does this. We make fun of him, but it’s apparently a Pennsylvania speech quirk. A few years ago the guy running the Christmas tree lot pegged him as a Pennsylvania man for it immediately. It’s been 40 years since he moved away and it’s still apparent. You got lucky when you pegged him as a Pennsylvanian, for the “Mondee, Tuesdee, etc.” pronunciation occurs places besides that. My father says that too, and his immediate forbears came from Kansas and Utah. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2004, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-really-random-and-really-trivial-pet-peeves/254017/78 "2004-07-08T20:55:16Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > My point is that there’s no such thing as “incorrect” language: people incorrectly call changes to the language incorrect, when really they’re just changes. > … > When people refer to an unusual pronunciation as incorrect, or a common word usage as incorrect, it demonstrates a fundamental misapprehension about the nature of language, and it bunches my knickers. > > Daniel Yeah, but on the other hand, it bunches _my_ pantaloons when people adopt the “anything goes” approach to language, and say that it’s impossible to be wrong. So words like “libary”, “nucular”, “aight”, and sentences like “Uh muh guh, he was all like, whatever.” or “I be gonna axe her who da arthur o dat book be, knowwhati’msayin.”, or “You wanna steam rice or fry rice?” 😉 become perfectly acceptable. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2004, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-really-random-and-really-trivial-pet-peeves/254017/79 "2004-07-08T21:04:57Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > Yeah, but on the other hand, it bunches _my_ pantaloons when people adopt the “anything goes” approach to language, and say that it’s impossible to be wrong. So words like “libary”, “nucular”, “aight”, and sentences like “Uh muh guh, he was all like, whatever.” or “I be gonna axe her who da arthur o dat book be, knowwhati’msayin.”, or “You wanna steam rice or fry rice?” 😉 become perfectly acceptable. When someone says “nucular,” “libary,” and “aight,” do you know what they mean? If so, their language is performing its primary function: it’s communicating. To the extent that you stop to correct them or complain about it, **you’re** the one decreasing the efficiency of language, not them. Now, a secondary function of language is aesthetic, and I’ve got no beef with your saying that “nucular” sounds fugly to you. Hell, it sounds fugly to me, too. But that’s a far cry from saying that it’s “incorrect.” It ain’t incorrect; it’s just fugly. Keep in mind that if you end your participles in a “g,” there’s gonna be people who find your speech patterns pretentious and silly, and their aesthetic judgments are every bit as valid as yours are. Beauty isn’t only in your eye. Some of your example sentences were difficult to understand. To the extent that a person has trouble getting their audience to understand them, whether it’s the fault of the audience or the speaker, their language is failing in its primary purpose. In this sense, it is “incorrect” (although I prefer “inefficient”) both to speak the Queen’s English to a group of very rural Appalachians, and to speak in deep Southern dialect to the Queen. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2004, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-really-random-and-really-trivial-pet-peeves/254017/80 "2004-07-08T21:19:09Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > I don’t need to tell you who invented “window,” house," and “barking”: you admit that someone did. I admit nothing of the sort. Since you seem to think they were invented, you do need to tell me by whom, or at least when. > [@](#): > > My point is that there’s no such thing as “incorrect” language: people incorrectly call changes to the language incorrect, when really they’re just changes. > > There **is** such a thing as standard American English–I like to call it bourgeoinics–but it has no intrinsic value over any other version of English, any more than Beethoven has intrinsic value over Duke Ellington. > > When people refer to an unusual pronunciation as incorrect, or a common word usage as incorrect, it demonstrates a fundamental misapprehension about the nature of language, and it bunches my knickers. > > Daniel I don’t know where to begin here. Language may change, but some distinctions of definition and usage are worth keeping because they perform a practical function. _Flout_ and _flaunt_ may now be considered interchangeable, but the cost is that part of the expressive power of both words has been lost. Or take _comprise_ as another example. Its correct definition is _include_, _take in_, and not _compose_. Yet people now use _composed of_ and _comprised of_ interchangeably. The cost to the expressive power of the language is significant. That’s why people get their knickers in a twist about this stuff. Then there are grammatical errors that are wrong in a deep, Chomskyan sense. Regarding English, some foreign members here have said that learning how to use the articles was difficult for them. For instance, Mandarin Chinese doesn’t have articles, and so many Chinese people learning English just omit them. But just because many of them do it doesn’t make it right. I’ll concede a point and agree with you that such niceties as _who_ and _whom_ are superfluous, but there are other aspects of grammar that make up an essential part of the language’s system, and need to be observed if we are to understand each other. For instance, in American English _They insisted that he is there_ has a different meaning from _They insisted that he be there_, and so it’s useful to know when to use the present subjunctive and when not to. “Bourgeonics”? Please. :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-really-random-and-really-trivial-pet-peeves/254017.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-really-random-and-really-trivial-pet-peeves/254017.md?page=5)