# Some really random and really trivial pet peeves **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 7, 2004, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-really-random-and-really-trivial-pet-peeves/254017 "2004-07-07T21:51:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-really-random-and-really-trivial-pet-peeves/254017/141 "2004-07-14T20:49:43Z")
**Left Hand of Dorkness** , What is an acceptable shortening of your name. \*\* Lefty?\*\* Thanks for the book tip. I’ll pick it up. The more obscure the hint, the longer it takes me to solve the puzzle. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-really-random-and-really-trivial-pet-peeves/254017/142 "2004-07-14T21:07:24Z")
> [@trandallt](#): > > **Left Hand of Dorkness** , > What is an acceptable shortening of your name. \*\* Lefty?\*\* I’m easy–LHOD, Lefty, or Daniel are what folks who like me call me, and Dork seems to be the nickname of choice for folks who dislike me. And I hope you like the book! > [@](#): > > The more obscure the hint, the longer it takes me to solve the puzzle. Does this mean you’ve got it? Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-really-random-and-really-trivial-pet-peeves/254017/143 "2004-07-14T21:24:11Z")
> [@trandallt](#): > > I truly worry about that. > > “The” as an adverb? I had no idea. Let me try to fugure that one out. Try “The more the merrier” or “the better to see you with”. “The” in that sense means “to that extent”, or “so much”. Yup, that’s an adverb. This meaning of “the” has nothing to do with the definite article, and descends from a different Old English word. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-really-random-and-really-trivial-pet-peeves/254017/144 "2004-07-14T21:27:32Z")
! Does this mean you’ve got it? Daniel [/QUOTE] By Jove I think I have! ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-really-random-and-really-trivial-pet-peeves/254017/145 "2004-07-14T21:32:57Z")
> [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#): > > This meaning of “the” has nothing to do with the definite article, and descends from a different Old English word. I had no idea they were unrelated words–awesome! Thanks for the education; this is one of the reasons I love this board. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-really-random-and-really-trivial-pet-peeves/254017/146 "2004-07-15T06:15:47Z")
Back to the OP: - people who stand in the aisle to put their coats, carry-on luggage, and entire wordly goods into the overhead locker. How can you not notice the queue behind you extending out of the plane? Let them past then do it. It’s not that hard. - people who step onto the escalator and stop. What do you think this is, a fun-park ride? They’re steps; walk up them! We can double the capacity of the thing and we’ll all get there sooner! - people who step off the escalator and stop. You didn’t notice the escalator was full, right behind you? What do you think those people are going to do, evaporate? - people who push the button for the lowest floor then move right to the back of the lift, and stay there til the doors open, THEN start moving. Did it come as a surprise that you were going to be first off? - people who push the button for the highest floor and stand near the door, blocking access to the button and forcing the lower-leavers to the rear (see above). - people. Let’s face it. ---
**Author:** ![N.Sane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f19dbf/32.png) [@N.Sane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N.Sane)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-really-random-and-really-trivial-pet-peeves/254017/147 "2004-07-15T13:31:40Z")
People who modify absolutes drive me absolutely stark staring mad! Too many people seem to get “unique” and “unusual” mixed up. The word “quote” when used as a noun. Quote is a verb; quotation is a noun. Get it straight! I’ll bow back out now. Thanks for letting me vent. ---
**Author:** ![Ninja\_Pizza\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f04885/32.png) [@Ninja\_Pizza\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ninja_Pizza_Guy)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-really-random-and-really-trivial-pet-peeves/254017/148 "2004-07-15T16:25:15Z")
> [@Padmaraga](#): > > Here’s one that gets my undies in a wad: people in customer-service jobs (cashiers, clerks, bank tellers, restaurant servers, whatnot) who share their personal problems with random, unsuspecting customers. Gaah! Our dishwasher will just wander out into the dining area and talk to people instead of working. I am tempted to take one of the customer comment cards & write on it something to the effect of "the food was good, as was the service, but one of the employees (her nametag read “Jane”) kept coming out and bothering us. She wouldn’t leave us alone to eat in peace. We will be taking our business elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-really-random-and-really-trivial-pet-peeves/254017/149 "2004-07-15T16:38:33Z")
> [@N. Sane](#): > > The word “quote” when used as a noun. Quote is a verb; quotation is a noun. Get it straight! Quote n. 1.Informal. A quotation. 2.A quotation mark. 3.Used by a speaker to indicate the beginning of a quotation. 4.A dictum; a saying. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-really-random-and-really-trivial-pet-peeves/254017/150 "2004-07-15T17:15:02Z")
**trandallt** , see **n. sane’s** post for an example of what I’m talking about :). Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Flutterby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Flutterby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flutterby)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-really-random-and-really-trivial-pet-peeves/254017/151 "2004-07-15T17:56:26Z")
> [@AndrewT](#): > > Back to the OP: > > - people who step onto the escalator and stop. What do you think this is, a fun-park ride? They’re steps; walk up them! We can double the capacity of the thing and we’ll all get there sooner! They’re steps, but they’re moving steps… meaning you don’t HAVE to walk up them! People who stop in the middle of the steps. This isn’t the escalator! You have to keep moving! People who dart in front of the stroller, then give me a dirty look when I bang their heels. Watch where you are going! Or better yet, next time don’t come to the fair on family day when nearly everyone has a stroller. I’m not careening through the crowd like you are, I actually have to pay attention so I don’t hit people. But when you just step in front of me I sometimes hit people like you. ---
**Author:** ![Rebo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rebo/32/13005_2.png) [@Rebo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rebo)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-really-random-and-really-trivial-pet-peeves/254017/152 "2004-07-15T18:56:54Z")
Motherfucking, loss-of-functionality, buggy as all hell software upgrades! Pro/Engineer Wildfire to be specific. For the last month and a half I’ve struggled to do my job, and for some things have had to come up with god-awful work-arounds just to get a drawing out the door. AAARRRGGHH! Tomato hornworms. One whole tomato plant is just nubs! Icky, nasty things. I bought some stuff that’s supposed to kick their asses, though. Hah! Eat _MY_ tomatoes, will ya?? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-really-random-and-really-trivial-pet-peeves/254017/153 "2004-07-15T19:36:49Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > **trandallt** , see **n. sane’s** post for an example of what I’m talking about :). > > Daniel I see where you are coming from. I used to think that way too. I was cured when it was pointed out to me that A) I was being an ass. B) Not once did it change the way people spoke. C) I was stridently wrong enough times to embarass me into silence. However, I am bothered by the common presumption that there are no rules, and that anything can mean whatever I say it means. In much the same way am I bothered by those who say “Oh you’re just being logical. I don’t think that way.” I submit such people do think that way; they use logic when it suits them, and decry it when it does not. So the phrase “you know what I mean” is a copout. If you know what you mean, why don’t you say it? Why have dictionaries at all? Why teach writing, for that matter? I believe that clear writing both indicates clear thinking and contributes to it. For one to write well one must master the tools of the trade, and that requires discipline, and at least familiarity with conventional usage and meaning. Can we at least agree that standard English (what did you call it, bourgoinics?) is the default postion? That a well educated American should be able to speak and write it? I am not saying that it is better, more valid, smarter, or anything like that. I am saying that if we splinter off into too many different mode of speech communication becomes compromised. Your puzzle. Cleave and ravel are examples of words that are their own antonyms. Can you think of two words that are pronounced the same, have opposite meanings, and are not spelled the same? ---
**Author:** ![AwSnappity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a3d4f5/32.png) [@AwSnappity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AwSnappity)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-really-random-and-really-trivial-pet-peeves/254017/154 "2004-07-15T22:15:31Z")
> [@AndrewT](#): > > - people who step onto the escalator and stop. What do you think this is, a fun-park ride? They’re steps; walk up them! We can double the capacity of the thing and we’ll all get there sooner! It hurts my mother’s knees to walk up an escalator–the steps are deeper and lower than normal stairs. My pet peeve: people who don’t stop and enjoy the roses, or escalators as it were. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![factorial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ed8c4c/32.png) [@factorial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/factorial)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-really-random-and-really-trivial-pet-peeves/254017/155 "2004-07-16T01:04:15Z")
> [@AndrewT](#): > > - people who stand in the aisle to put their coats, carry-on luggage, and entire wordly goods into the overhead locker. How can you not notice the queue behind you extending out of the plane? Let them past then do it. It’s not that hard. They board the plane starting at the back for this reason… so that you can go ahead and put your crap above you. If the airline is not following that policy, quit giving them your hard-earned dollars. > [@](#): > > - people who step onto the escalator and stop. What do you think this is, a fun-park ride? They’re steps; walk up them! We can double the capacity of the thing and we’ll all get there sooner! The main problem for me is people not following (on escalators and “people-movers” at the airport) The Golden Rule: **STAND RIGHT WALK LEFT** It’s just like driving! Slower-moving objects stay to the right. > [@](#): > > - people who step off the escalator and stop. You didn’t notice the escalator was full, right behind you? What do you think those people are going to do, evaporate? This one I fucking hate. You have a minute-long ride up to figure out where you need to go. If you’re too braindead to use that time effectively, then at least step eighteen inches to the side, you dipshit. My own: Don’t fucking walk holding hands if there’s not enough fucking room. I shouldn’t have to walk completely off the sidewalk simply because you’re assholes. Just let go for the half-second it will take for me to walk past you and then I don’t care what you do. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-really-random-and-really-trivial-pet-peeves/254017/156 "2004-07-16T13:17:08Z")
> [@trandallt](#): > > Why have dictionaries at all? Why teach writing, for that matter? I believe that clear writing both indicates clear thinking and contributes to it. For one to write well one must master the tools of the trade, and that requires discipline, and at least familiarity with conventional usage and meaning. In some ways I agree, and in some ways I don’t. Let me see if I can make a river analogy: If you go whitewater canoeing, the river has different channels and eddies in it. Some of the water flows over shallow rocks; some of it goes in strong channels. You’ll enjoy your trip the most if you choose the strong channels. What this requires is a good eye and a muscular paddle-arm. But it is the height of silliness to think that you can tell the river which channels ought to be best. The river, of course, is language. The strong channels represent standard English, or other forms of the language that are commonly understood: if you want to communicate most effectively, you need to choose these techniques. This requires a good eye (or a good ear, or an understanding of the principles behind that variety of English) and the clarity of thought to translate your ideas into words (equivalent to a strong paddle-arm). Where you can do better or worse as a writer is in recognizing where those channels are. What you CAN’T do is change the channels themselves: they are 100% out of your control. If someone says, “I’m’ll y’know grab the thing and y’know,” they’re scuttering over the rocks. Chances are good that nobody is going to know what they mean, and that means they’re not accomplishing their goal of communication. But if they say, “He don’t know nothin’ about no damn sabotaged banana, and if that ain’t the most stupidest thing I ever done heard, I’m’ll eat my de-fuckin-licious hat!” they’re traveling through a channel. Their grammar breaks all kinds of rules, but the audience knows what they’re trying to say. Now, to switch metaphors: if you’re playing soccer, you’re not supposed to touch the ball with your hands (with some exceptions, I know). That’s not some intrinsic property of playing games: that’s just one of the rules of soccer. If someone wants to play soccer, there’s no point protesting that the rule is arbitrary: of COURSE it’s arbitrary. On the flip side, it’d be the height of silliness for a soccer player to freak out when someone catches a ball in a game of basketball. Many of the rules of language are arbitrary, yes, but their value is in their commonality. If most people recognize the rule, then language’s utility is heightened. And some types of language–Business English–have very specific rules, and other users of this type of English expect you to follow them. Not because those rules are intrinsically superior, but because that’s how the game is played. However, it’s very silly for someone who knows Business English to come to another format–a messageboard, for example–and start criticizing folks’ language used based on irrelevant rules. As for dictionaries: I want them to reflect the way people **do** talk, not how they **should** talk. For this reason, I adore the _American Heritage Dictionary_, and prescriptivists despise it. > [@](#): > > Can we at least agree that standard English (what did you call it, bourgoinics?) is the default postion? Afraid not. It’s the default position for many business relationships, but that’s it. > [@](#): > > That a well educated American should be able to speak and write it? I can agree that being able to speak and write bourgeoinics is a pretty useful skill. > [@](#): > > Your puzzle. Cleave and ravel are examples of words that are their own antonyms. Can you think of two words that are pronounced the same, have opposite meanings, and are not spelled the same? Ooh. Lemme think on it! Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Balle\_M](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/13edae/32.png) [@Balle\_M](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balle_M)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-really-random-and-really-trivial-pet-peeves/254017/157 "2004-07-16T14:36:28Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > I do recognize that when you’re speaking in a specific setting, for example, to members of the bourgeoisie or the intelligentsia, you’ll communicate more effectively and provide more aesthetic pleasure if you follow certain rules. Other rules will behoove you when you’re communicating to the good ol’ boy working at the car garage in deep Appalachia. Neither way is intrinsically better; what’s better is to possess the flexibility to modify your language in order to achieve the second and third goals. > > Daniel My pet peeve is people like the Voice of the Proletariat here who assume no one who lives in Appalachia is able to speak proper English. A few of us even went to college, and not as janitors or lab test subjects. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-really-random-and-really-trivial-pet-peeves/254017/158 "2004-07-16T22:08:15Z")
[QUOTE=Left Hand of Dorkness] Much of what you say is very persuasive, and you have caused me to re-examine my thinking on this issue. However, I still have a couple of quibbles. > [@](#): > > As for dictionaries: I want them to reflect the way people **do** talk, not how they **should** talk. For this reason, I adore the _American Heritage Dictionary_, and prescriptivists despise it. I supose I’m a bit of a prescriptivist, although certainly not in the sense of saying evey word must always mean the same thing forever. But again, I ask, of what use is a dictionary? It certainly is not going to include the usages you mentioned in your “sabatoged banana” reference, yet that is “how people talk.” > [@](#): > > Afraid not. It’s the default position for many business relationships, but that’s it. Literary criticism? Diplomacy? Research papers? Instruction manuels? How two non-native speakers communicate? Reference books? Textbooks? What I’m really looking for is some kind of acknowledgement (not from you, necessarily) that the various different ways of speaking, althoughy equally valid in their frames of reference, are derived from a main source to which appeals may be made in questions of meaning, usage, etc. > [@](#): > > Ooh. Lemme think on it! Imagine you are flying in a crop-duster over the site of an old farm, and nothing much remains but the foundations of the buildings. You say to yourself " I see where the pasture used to be, and the main house, and over there the barn…" ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-really-random-and-really-trivial-pet-peeves/254017/159 "2004-07-16T22:18:09Z")
**Daniel** Dang, I meant to say something about your river analogy, which was very nicely done, by the way. Wouldn’t the best kayaker be familiar with all of the ways of the river? And isn’t there really one best way to handle certain sections? Would not an instructer correct a student who chose the wrong technique? On a personal note, one of the highlights of my life was doing a class .1 run in one of those inflatable kayaks on the Nantahla. I l **oved** it. And yes, I mean class .1. You’re up there in kayak country. Ever get out on the river? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-really-random-and-really-trivial-pet-peeves/254017.md?page=7)