# Some shocked & disappointed "Bruno" is a gay mocking vs gay positive portrayal **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 9, 2009, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-shocked-disappointed-bruno-is-a-gay-mocking-vs-gay-positive-portrayal/502400 "2009-07-09T02:49:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2009, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-shocked-disappointed-bruno-is-a-gay-mocking-vs-gay-positive-portrayal/502400/41 "2009-07-09T23:21:03Z")
One clip of Bruno that was great was when he interviewed a “Pray the Gay Away” minister. Look, not all the scenes in “Borat” were supposed to make you point at laugh at the regular folks. There were plenty of scenes of people trying to be polite to this jackass foreigner, where they came off very well. One part of the dinner party scene that got cut was when the hostess insisted Borat pay the prostitute he hired. That’s showing class in the face of adversity. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-shocked-disappointed-bruno-is-a-gay-mocking-vs-gay-positive-portrayal/502400/42 "2009-07-10T17:01:37Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > How do you get from 34% to 79%? > And that’s an ADL survey? They’re not exactly the most objective gatherers of data. Pssst… if you’re going to question the reliability or objectivity of the pollsters, the time to do that is IMMEDIATELY! Not AFTER you’ve realized that their data don’t support your position. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-shocked-disappointed-bruno-is-a-gay-mocking-vs-gay-positive-portrayal/502400/43 "2009-07-10T17:09:28Z")
The data DOES support my position, and I didn’t notice who had done the study at first. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-shocked-disappointed-bruno-is-a-gay-mocking-vs-gay-positive-portrayal/502400/44 "2009-07-10T17:12:23Z")
By the way, the Bruno movie contains a whole scene of SBH baiting an all black studio talk show audience on their homophobia. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-shocked-disappointed-bruno-is-a-gay-mocking-vs-gay-positive-portrayal/502400/45 "2009-07-10T17:27:41Z")
I just don’t get why baiting a bunch of people is supposed to be shocking or witty or all that groundbreaking. I remember a lot of people here thought that Top Gear episode where the guys go to the Deep South with stuff spray painted on their cars (Go Hillary, something about being bisexual, NASCAR sucks, Country and Western is rubbish) to see what would happen. When people reacted, a lot of Dopers thought it was offensive that the Top Gear guys were trying to bait them/be assholes. What makes this different? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-shocked-disappointed-bruno-is-a-gay-mocking-vs-gay-positive-portrayal/502400/46 "2009-07-10T17:38:21Z")
I don’t think there was anything wrong or offensive about what the Top Gear guys did. I think baiting groups is more effective at exposing socially and culturally entrenched attitudes than baiting individuals. The more macrospcopic sample sizes eliminate the (quite legitimate) objection that individuals can be cherry picked and can’t necessarily be taken as representative of the whole. Showing how easy it is to get an entire bar to sing along with a racist song exposes more than getting one person to do it. In any case, whether baiting the Richard Bey audience was funny or not, it refutes **Astorian’s** contention that SBH is afraid to bait black people. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-shocked-disappointed-bruno-is-a-gay-mocking-vs-gay-positive-portrayal/502400/47 "2009-07-10T17:39:37Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I don’t think there was anything wrong or offensive about what the Top Gear guys did. I think baiting groups is more effective at exposing socially and culturally entrenched attitudes than baiting individuals. The more macrospcopic sample sizes eliminate the (quite legitimate) objection that individuals can be cherry picked and can’t necessarily be taken as representative of the whole. Showing how easy it is to get an entire bar to sing along with a racist song exposes more than getting one person to do it. But if you get a whole audience to do it, what about the risk that people are only going along with it because others are doing it? I know there’s a phenomenon, forget what it’s called, where people won’t react if lots of people around them are behaving as though everything’s normal. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-shocked-disappointed-bruno-is-a-gay-mocking-vs-gay-positive-portrayal/502400/48 "2009-07-10T17:50:51Z")
So it exposes that too. There’s also a difference between seeing people not react, and seeing people actively join in with the singing of a racist song, or seeing them scream homophobic epithets at two guys kissing in a wrestling ring. I don’t expect anybody to try to fight or correct a whole crowd, but there’s no excuse for actually joining in with them. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-shocked-disappointed-bruno-is-a-gay-mocking-vs-gay-positive-portrayal/502400/49 "2009-07-10T17:54:45Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > I know there’s a phenomenon, forget what it’s called, where people won’t react if lots of people around them are behaving as though everything’s normal. “Gutlessness?” ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-shocked-disappointed-bruno-is-a-gay-mocking-vs-gay-positive-portrayal/502400/50 "2009-07-10T18:03:23Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > “Gutlessness?” Ha. No, but there really is. There’s a study where one person is in a room that starts to fill with smoke very slowly and if there’s just one person, they will react. Whereas if there are others and they aren’t saying anything, that one person (the others being plants) won’t react or will react much more slowly. Anyway, I guess I’m just not sure what exactly is so brilliant about Borat or Bruno. We already know there’s racism and homophobia. Going around acting like an idiot and filming it is supposed to be daring and avant garde? ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-shocked-disappointed-bruno-is-a-gay-mocking-vs-gay-positive-portrayal/502400/51 "2009-07-10T18:11:39Z")
Wait, I haven’t seen the movie, but saw the Ali G. TV show, in which “Bruno” was a regular. I remember him going to a fashion show and getting trendy, (to be fair I can’t say for sure that any of them were homosexuals because none of them looked into the camera saying so, but that really shouldn’t matter should it?), people to talk about the theme of the show, getting them to admit contradictory statements. He would start out with something like; “There was darkness in the theme this year, can you tell me about that?”, after they explain the “dark motif”. Bruno would then say something like; “Also Everything seemed to be illuminating and bright.”, to which the designer would go on to explain why they took that direction. Also got some designer to talk about how ‘Hot’ Osama Bin Laden was. He may not be doing homosexuals any ‘favors’, but why would it be ok to lampoon on person over another if (as individuals, and not representatives of a race or sexual preference), a certain level of ignorance is clearly prevalent in both? Like I said, I didn’t see the movie. I just think Bruno’s a ‘character’, and we should be past the point of caring what he playing so long as it provides for entertaining and awkward situations. It’s like getting pissed if the black person’s the villain rather than the superhero. So anyone who’s seen the movie or would like to try and tell me what I may be missing, my ears are open. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-shocked-disappointed-bruno-is-a-gay-mocking-vs-gay-positive-portrayal/502400/52 "2009-07-10T18:29:09Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Ha. No, but there really is. [Diffusion of responsibility](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_of_responsibility). ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-shocked-disappointed-bruno-is-a-gay-mocking-vs-gay-positive-portrayal/502400/53 "2009-07-10T18:30:39Z")
> [@pravnik](#): > > [Diffusion of responsibility](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_of_responsibility). That’s it! Thank you, **pravnik** , my firstborn to you. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-shocked-disappointed-bruno-is-a-gay-mocking-vs-gay-positive-portrayal/502400/54 "2009-07-10T18:31:37Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > That’s it! Thank you, **pravnik** , my firstborn to you. You don’t have to, I had a big lunch. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-shocked-disappointed-bruno-is-a-gay-mocking-vs-gay-positive-portrayal/502400/55 "2009-07-10T18:33:50Z")
> [@pravnik](#): > > You don’t have to, I had a big lunch. What? You don’t have a freezer? These are tough times for everyone. Don’t go wasting a meal. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-shocked-disappointed-bruno-is-a-gay-mocking-vs-gay-positive-portrayal/502400/56 "2009-07-10T18:38:52Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > But if you get a whole audience to do it, what about the risk that people are only going along with it because others are doing it? I know there’s a phenomenon, forget what it’s called, where people won’t react if lots of people around them are behaving as though everything’s normal. The bystander effect explained by pluralistic ignorance and diffusion of responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-shocked-disappointed-bruno-is-a-gay-mocking-vs-gay-positive-portrayal/502400/57 "2009-07-10T18:47:55Z")
This would about sum it up: [QUOTE=Brüno] Some backbiting guys in ze gayworld say Bruno’s a bad spokesman for us - you don’t hear ze astronaut community bitching about Buzz Lightyear [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-shocked-disappointed-bruno-is-a-gay-mocking-vs-gay-positive-portrayal/502400/58 "2009-07-10T21:02:21Z")
> [@pricciar](#): > > I am just making sure - you have seen the film? She did. ---
**Author:** ![thirdname](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@thirdname](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdname)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-shocked-disappointed-bruno-is-a-gay-mocking-vs-gay-positive-portrayal/502400/59 "2009-07-10T21:52:30Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > Wait, I haven’t seen the movie, but saw the Ali G. TV show, in which “Bruno” was a regular. I remember him going to a fashion show and getting trendy, (to be fair I can’t say for sure that any of them were homosexuals because none of them looked into the camera saying so, but that really shouldn’t matter should it?), people to talk about the theme of the show, getting them to admit contradictory statements. He would start out with something like; “There was darkness in the theme this year, can you tell me about that?”, after they explain the “dark motif”. Bruno would then say something like; “Also Everything seemed to be illuminating and bright.”, to which the designer would go on to explain why they took that direction. Also got some designer to talk about how ‘Hot’ Osama Bin Laden was. Here: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oa\_ePERLvK4](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oa_ePERLvK4) ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2009, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-shocked-disappointed-bruno-is-a-gay-mocking-vs-gay-positive-portrayal/502400/60 "2009-07-10T22:12:28Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > And that’s an ADL survey? They’re not exactly the most objective gatherers of data. Jew hater. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-shocked-disappointed-bruno-is-a-gay-mocking-vs-gay-positive-portrayal/502400.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-shocked-disappointed-bruno-is-a-gay-mocking-vs-gay-positive-portrayal/502400.md?page=4)