# Some Street Cyclists **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 7, 2009, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-street-cyclists/484797 "2009-02-07T11:14:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-street-cyclists/484797/21 "2009-02-08T02:36:38Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > I suspect he knows this, and I suspect he also believes that heavy urban traffic is not the place to be “performing”. Ok, so we ride slowly and we’re holding up traffic. We ride fast and we’re ‘performing’. No pleasing you people, is there? ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-street-cyclists/484797/22 "2009-02-08T03:44:26Z")
> [@Sublight](#): > > Ok, so we ride slowly and we’re holding up traffic. We ride fast and we’re ‘performing’. > > No pleasing you people, is there? Yeah buddy, you got me. I’m just a hater. :rolleyes: Like I said, pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-street-cyclists/484797/23 "2009-02-08T03:55:29Z")
I have no problems with cyclists at all- as long as they obey the traffic laws. Which includes not riding on the footpath (sidewalk). ---
**Author:** ![Discipline](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/82dd89/32.png) [@Discipline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Discipline)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-street-cyclists/484797/24 "2009-02-08T04:53:30Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Wow. This is possibly the most pathetic comeback I’ve ever seen in the Pit. Comeback to what? Seems like you’re looking for a fight that just isn’t here. Sorry I couldn’t be more helpful. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-street-cyclists/484797/25 "2009-02-08T05:19:55Z")
> [@Hunter\_Hawk](#): > > FWIW, around here bicyclists _are_ permitted to ride on the sidewalks; they just have to not ride like an asshole (except that bit’s in legal-speak in the actual regulations) and yield to pedestrians. Same in my little county on the opposite coast. Some of our many designated bike routes are sidewalks. ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-street-cyclists/484797/26 "2009-02-08T05:28:08Z")
> [@Hunter\_Hawk](#): > > Seattle. IANAL so I can’t speculate on the reasoning, but I personally have no problem with people riding on sidewalks. Bicyclists generally ride in the road, and almost never ride on the sidewalk when there are a lot of pedestrians. Interesting! In the Bay Area, I think it is generally accepted that riding on the sidewalk is dangerous for the cyclist, even absent pedestrians, because drivers simply won’t be looking for you there. And also that being predictable is the biggest part of being safe. Is it different in the Seattle cycling community? ---
**Author:** ![not\_alice](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_alice/32/7283_2.png) [@not\_alice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_alice)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-street-cyclists/484797/27 "2009-02-08T05:38:54Z")
> [@Marienee](#): > > I know what you mean. They run in packs here, between three and nine or so in a group. Always male, always middle aged. Happily for the trucks, here they mostly stay on the bike lanes of which we have a gracious plenty. Experience here very different. I was in the San Francisco bay Area New years weekend (no bike alas). But I did get a chance to drive one weekend afternoon on a common bike route (Foothill Expressway from Cupertino to Palo Alto, maybe 10 miles for those familiar with the area. I saw at least 150 riders going in my direction, ranging in age from probably 16-17 into the 70s. All in “performance” clothes, most in groups, male and female, most (60%?) on drop-down handelbar road bikes. I used to have a housemate who was 70 years old and a road rider, and he often road with lady friends only a few years his junior. Based on the route they took and the time they were gone, they were covering some pretty good ground. Oh did I mention he had had at least a double transplant surgery before I knew him? > [@](#): > > They take, as far as I can tell, absolutely no notice of anybody else on the road. But, all due respect, it might be hard to tell. It can be startling when someone passes you when you don’t expect it. But that doesn’t mean they were not paying attention to passing you safely. The way to overcome this is, when you are slower, be aware of your surroundings, even behind you at all times, and work on reducing the “startle factor”. Try it, I bet it works for you. ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-street-cyclists/484797/28 "2009-02-08T05:54:19Z")
Bikes belong on the road, and as far as I’m concerned they should be subject to the same traffic laws as cars. Just because you’re on a bicycle doesn’t mean you get to take a left on red at a busy intersection, asshole. Obey the rules of the road, or take your toy to the park. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2009, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-street-cyclists/484797/29 "2009-02-08T13:02:32Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Yeah buddy, you got me. I’m just a hater. :rolleyes: No, you’re just inconsistent. Shouldn’t expect any better from a typical cage monkey, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-street-cyclists/484797/30 "2009-02-09T14:44:39Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > Can you tell us about your cycling experience and personal safety comfort level? > > I ask because not all cyclists will have the same abilities or comfort level. > > Personally, I don’t mind riding in the heaviest urban traffic, but certainly plenty of others, while happy to ride on even urban side streets when traffic is light, will never even dream of riding where I do, and that is fine - if they don’t feel their skills are up to it, then they shouldn’t ride there. > > Just like skiing or snowboarding - you have the most fun where you feel safest that you can handle things that might come up. These things come from experience and practice, they are skills, not doubt about it. > > Also, I am guessing you don’t ride a bike with drop handlebars. And it appears that you have some sort of social grudge against people wearing performance clothes when they are, well, performing. > > I will leave the outfit stuff alone, but drop handlebars are not any less safe then sitting upright. Your vision is not impaired, your reaction time is not less. Others may be able to argue this better then me, but it may be (based on my own experience) that both are actually improved compared to being upright. > > What you do get from a bike with drop handlebars is a body position that is far more efficient at capturing the energy of your legs and transporting it to the pedals and then to the wheels. This is probably extended by most of the riders on such bikes because their toes are in toe clips on the pedals, or even more likely, their shoes actually snap on to the pedals with a release system akin to ski boots. > > It is counter-intuitive, I know, but in my experience, feet strapped to the pedal (but able to come off in an emergency) is a safer way to ride. A bump or jolt will not cause your feet to fly off the pedals, which can result in a sudden loss of balance or control and maybe a BIG wobble side to side while you correct. Instead, it is much easier to maintain control when clipped in. > > So, while the drop down riders are going faster then you, and you might think they are racing, because of the major increases in efficiency even independent of their fitness level they may actually be working LESS hard then you to go that rate compared to the slower rate you are traveling. > > Also, even for upright bikes, the geometry of the frame, and proper fitting matters. I have a nice mountain bike, upright, that fits me well, that I ride on road and off. My girlfriend’s bike is about the same size, but the angles in the frame are much “gentler” leaving me even more upright when I ride it, the seat is much more cushy resulting in lost energy transferred to the seat instead of the pedals as I ride, and the result is a much less comfortable, efficient, and yes, safe ride in comparison to my bike. > > Not all bikes are the same, and while I don’t know what kind of bike you have, I hope you will consider now that there are features of any bike that are actually safety related that you may not have realized. Perhaps even your bike is not as safe as you think, and that you end up spending more effort to keep it from leading you astray then you need to with a safer bike for you (even if you stay with an upright model). > > Bikes, in part for efficiency, and in part for safety reasons I describe, are not one size fits all. Probably the riders you see, if they are riding expensive bikes, have paid in part to have all this taken into account with a bike that is safer for them because it fits better and reacts better and allows them to react better. > > Now, it sucks that a guy hit a lorry, that’s for sure. Sometimes that happens. Sometime the lorry hits the bike. Sometimes cars collide. All these things can and do result in fatalities. > > If the worst accidents that ever happen on the roads where you live is that occasionally a bike hits a lorry, then you are living in the closest thing to traffic paradise I have ever heard of and I want to ride there myself 🙂 Right, I’ll try to address your points as quickly as possible. I am a very experienced street cyclist,have cycled regulary from childhood on a variety of syles of bike including drop handles. I am more then happy in heavy urban traffic(Which I cycle in every day),I use the proper lanes and signal before turning, lane changing etc.so vehicles treat me with respect because they know I’m not going to throw them any surprises and that I am aware of what is going on all around me not just to my immediate front. I ride a mountain bike. I live in a densley populated urban environment that has heavy traffic. I have cycled with drop bars and toe clips and vehemently disagree with you on their being safe when road riding,you are physically unable to have all around awareness(which is what you need in urban traffic)when you are hunched over,you have a very limited range of vision extending only to your front and a little to your sides. Toe clips restrict you physically in the event of needing to disengage your feet which is a danger in itself. As to the performance gear these people wear I have no issue with it at all in its self,if you really really need to wear gloves,lycra etc. for your twenty minute ride to work and back then good luck to you. But my point is that these people who tend to be ignorant,nuisance , urbanstreet cyclists ,the sort who quite often have never had an accident but have caused dozens(most likely without even being aware of it) seem to ALWAYS wear this sort of gear in the U.K. I am not confusing competetive sports riders with these people,my uncle was an amateur club racer so I do know the difference. As to only having to worry about the occassional cyclist running into a lorry where I live I’m afraid that that is just not the case unfortunately. The area where I live is dangerous enough on the roads without the added unnecessary hazards of “Walter Mittys” suffering mid life crisis’s who feel the need to pretend that they are Eddie Merks on their daily journeys to and from work. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-street-cyclists/484797/31 "2009-02-09T15:06:53Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > The anti bicycle crowd come in two flavors. > Flavor number 1 is represented by **Blinking Duck** in the other thread where he thinks that bicycles don’t have a right to ride on the road, but should stay on the sidewalk. > flavor number 2 is in this thread where **Cicero** and **Fionn** think bikes belong on the road, not on the sidewalk.\* > Since both of these thread are active at the same time, I have to admit I admire the irony. > > \*FTR I agree with this attitude, and I ride a bike. I guess that is a mostly fair assessment of my opinion except I don’t think bikes should be on the sidewalk either. To be clear… NO vehicle should be allowed on the road unless it can keep up with traffic flow. I don’t care what it is. If you are riding your bike and you don’t bunch up traffic behind you and you obey the laws…I have no problem. No problem at all. In downtown Minneapolis, there are bikes…and the flow of traffic is slow…and many bikes do take lanes. They can operate just like any other vehicle…no problem. However, that same bike going 20 mph taking up the lane of a highway where traffic would be going 50?..he has no right to be there. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-street-cyclists/484797/32 "2009-02-09T15:07:55Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > The anti bicycle crowd come in two flavors. > Flavor number 1 is represented by **Blinking Duck** in the other thread where he thinks that bicycles don’t have a right to ride on the road, but should stay on the sidewalk. > flavor number 2 is in this thread where **Cicero** and **Fionn** think bikes belong on the road, not on the sidewalk.\* > Since both of these thread are active at the same time, I have to admit I admire the irony. > > \*FTR I agree with this attitude, and I ride a bike. I guess that is a mostly fair assessment of my opinion except I don’t think bikes should be on the sidewalk either. To be clear… NO vehicle should be allowed on the road unless it can keep up with traffic flow. I don’t care what it is. If you are riding your bike and you don’t bunch up traffic behind you and you obey the laws…I have no problem. No problem at all. In downtown Minneapolis, there are bikes…and the flow of traffic is slow…and many bikes do take lanes. They can operate just like any other vehicle…no problem. I’m happy that they ARE on bikes instead of having a car. However, that same bike going 20 mph taking up the lane of a highway where traffic would be going 50 with a line of cars stretching behind him?..he has no right to be there…and I hope he gets dusted. ---
**Author:** ![footballisplayedwithyourfeet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/9f8e36/32.png) [@footballisplayedwithyourfeet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/footballisplayedwithyourfeet)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-street-cyclists/484797/33 "2009-02-09T15:53:40Z")
have special bike lanes, solves a lot of problems. Also please keep in mind that choosing a bike over a car means less polution, less CO2 in the atmosphere, less obese people society needs to pay for… ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-street-cyclists/484797/34 "2009-02-09T16:13:24Z")
> [@footballisplayedwithyourfeet](#): > > Also please keep in mind that choosing a bike over a car means less polution, less CO2 in the atmosphere, less obese people society needs to pay for… …less wear and tear on roads, less dependence on foreign oil… Also less space needed for parking lots, and fewer car lanes needed, which in turn means buildings can be spaced closer together and there will be more things within walking/biking distance. (I think one of these days Americans will realize that a car-friendly city cannot be a people-friendly city. I just hope it happens in my lifetime.) ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-street-cyclists/484797/35 "2009-02-09T16:49:06Z")
> [@BlinkingDuck](#): > > I guess that is a mostly fair assessment of my opinion except I don’t think bikes should be on the sidewalk either. > > To be clear… > > NO vehicle should be allowed on the road unless it can keep up with traffic flow. I don’t care what it is. > > If you are riding your bike and you don’t bunch up traffic behind you and you obey the laws…I have no problem. No problem at all. In downtown Minneapolis, there are bikes…and the flow of traffic is slow…and many bikes do take lanes. They can operate just like any other vehicle…no problem. > > However, that same bike going 20 mph taking up the lane of a highway where traffic would be going 50?..he has no right to be there. This is laughable. Every day major highways that bikes are not even allowed to be on are jammed solid with traffic and yet somehow hundreds of traffic problems off of those highways must be caused by bicycles? All this is lame, selfish excuse-making - you just wants bikes off the road. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-street-cyclists/484797/36 "2009-02-09T20:28:32Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > All this is lame, selfish excuse-making - you just wants bikes off the road. Yes, **BlinkingDuck** hates stupid bikeses. Wants stupid bikeses off the road. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-street-cyclists/484797/37 "2009-02-09T21:11:32Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > This is laughable. Every day major highways that bikes are not even allowed to be on are jammed solid with traffic and yet somehow hundreds of traffic problems off of those highways must be caused by bicycles? > > All this is lame, selfish excuse-making - you just wants bikes off the road. ??? ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-street-cyclists/484797/38 "2009-02-09T21:13:17Z")
> [@Lute Skywatcher](#): > > Yes, **BlinkingDuck** hates stupid bikeses. Wants stupid bikeses off the road. 😉 Yesssss! YESSSS!!! The Duck hates stupid bikeses. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2009, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-street-cyclists/484797/39 "2009-02-09T23:24:26Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > They are bent over the handlebars staring straight ahead and going much faster then their reaction ability can handle resulting in everyone else in their vicinity having to get out of their way or risk a collision. They’re probably doing about 30-35km/hr ie about half what a motorist would be doing, so presumably motorists are even further beyond what their reaction ability can handle. You say they are staring straight ahead, yet that’s what most motorists do. While listening to the radio. And talking to their passengers. And thinking about what they are going to cook for dinner. Yet you are picking out one specific narrow category of cyclist for your pitting. You make no sense. > [@](#): > > I dont mind them killing themselves but I do mind them getting other people killed. First you mention that a cyclist killed himself by hitting a truck, then you pit cyclists because they may kill someone else. But this almost never actually happens. Cyclists get killed, not kill others. Furthermore, you decry some cyclist for hitting the side of a truck, and ask how he could possibly be so silly. Well, firstly sometimes people fuck up. If you’re going to pit people for fucking up sometimes, I think you’d better pit us all. You proceed from this one accident to some dumbass argument about lack of awareness. Do you think no motorist, or flat bar cyclists wearing sensible clothes has ever killed themselves in a stupid accident? Huh? Secondly, given that the guy was killed, we have probably only heard the truck driver’s side of the story. Any other possibilities come to mind about what _actually_ happened, sparky? Your post is irrational. You seem to have some sort of distaste for cyclists who wear certain clothing and ride certain sorts of bikes. Great Og you’re an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2009, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-street-cyclists/484797/40 "2009-02-10T02:53:10Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Secondly, given that the guy was killed, we have probably only heard the truck driver’s side of the story. Any other possibilities come to mind about what _actually_ happened, sparky? Interestingly, there has been a case in Seattle (mentioned in the other thread) where a cyclist plowed into the side of a van and was killed. Despite the apologetics in that other thread it seems fairly apparent that the van made a U-turn from right of the bike lane without checking and ended up left hooking the cyclist. But, sadly, most cases where the cyclist is killed its ends up being conveniently labeled as ‘he just swerved into my path’. Also called the SWSS, Single-Witness Suicide Swerve. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-street-cyclists/484797.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-street-cyclists/484797.md?page=3)