# Some suggestions regarding the situation around George Floyd's death. Are these ideas simplistic? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 29, 2020, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-suggestions-regarding-the-situation-around-george-floyds-death-are-these-ideas-simplistic/854661 "2020-05-29T12:57:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-suggestions-regarding-the-situation-around-george-floyds-death-are-these-ideas-simplistic/854661/21 "2020-05-29T20:57:20Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > … She instead referred that case, and all others like it involving police, to grand juries which generally chose not to do much. > > … Actually Grand Juries file a Indictment much more often than not, as the Defense doesnt put up any evidence. I sat on one, have you? And it is custom to refer politically charged cases to the Grand Jury, not to mention it is right there in the Constitution. So, she did the proper thing, and if _a Grand Jury wont return a indictment_, then the evidence is slim indeed. You are about as wrong here as can be. Did you just want to use this as a forum to attack Klobuchar? ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-suggestions-regarding-the-situation-around-george-floyds-death-are-these-ideas-simplistic/854661/22 "2020-05-29T20:58:14Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Being a racist, even posting a racist joke or tweet will get you suspended or fired in most modern police depts. > > However, i disagree with your \*"not up for debate and taken as a given for this thread. > > 1. The underlying assumption that George Floyd was murdered by a racist police officer. "\* > > I dont think that officer was racist. He clearly has a anger management issue, based upon complaints filed against him. > > Outright racists dont last long as cops. That’s rich. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-suggestions-regarding-the-situation-around-george-floyds-death-are-these-ideas-simplistic/854661/23 "2020-05-29T21:03:53Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Mdcastle** : > > Yes. That’s why we have due process and the criminal justice system instead of vigilante mob rule in this country. You’re not entitled to a free TV set because you don’t have the patience for a Grand Jury investigation. Well, that’s why we _should_ have due process and a criminal justice system. Apparently, not everywhere does. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-suggestions-regarding-the-situation-around-george-floyds-death-are-these-ideas-simplistic/854661/24 "2020-05-29T21:53:41Z")
> [@Chingon](#): > > That’s rich. Why was that “rich”? And of course this is also address to the OP. As this thread is at least in part about George Floyd, is there any evidence as of yet that this tragedy was born of racism? Making this assumption, just taking it as a given right from the start, is ludicrous. Doing so, and being wrong, only weakens the cases made against legitimate racist motivated tragedies. It’s like every single commentator I’ve heard today on CNN and MSNBC. Never once did they ever suggest that it’s even _possibily_ not about racism. And I have a theory as to why: because they know doing so will get their overpaid asses fired in a second. Can’t have any doubt introduced into a story like this. But that’s another thread. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-suggestions-regarding-the-situation-around-george-floyds-death-are-these-ideas-simplistic/854661/25 "2020-05-29T22:49:28Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Want to get rid of bad cops? Get rid of the unions and get rid of the Democratic politicians who take money from the unions and then protect the bad guys. Because the Republicans are \*better \*on the subject of police discrimination? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-suggestions-regarding-the-situation-around-george-floyds-death-are-these-ideas-simplistic/854661/26 "2020-05-29T23:02:55Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Because the Republicans are \*better \*on the subject of police discrimination? Probably not better. Just bad in a different way. The problem is the nature of institutions that protect their own. Unfortunately, that might just be an intrinsic property and aside from a well designed set of competing interests, aka. checks and balances, which diversifies power I don’t think it’s likely to avoid much less eliminate eventual corruption. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-suggestions-regarding-the-situation-around-george-floyds-death-are-these-ideas-simplistic/854661/27 "2020-05-29T23:14:12Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Probably not better. Just bad in a different way. The problem is the nature of institutions that protect their own. Unfortunately, that might just be an intrinsic property and aside from a well designed set of competing interests, aka. checks and balances, which diversifies power I don’t think it’s likely to avoid much less eliminate eventual corruption. Maybe, but **ITR** seemed to be saying that Democratic politicians are the primary stumbling block to police reform, and yet they’re the only one of the two parties that are actually pushing for any sort of reform here at all. Are there \*any \*significant voices on the right calling for changes to American police departments over their interactions with African Americans? ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-suggestions-regarding-the-situation-around-george-floyds-death-are-these-ideas-simplistic/854661/28 "2020-05-29T23:21:53Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > Why was that “rich”? And of course this is also address to the OP. > > As this thread is at least in part about George Floyd, is there any evidence as of yet that this tragedy was born of racism? Making this assumption, just taking it as a given right from the start, is ludicrous. Doing so, and being wrong, only weakens the cases made against legitimate racist motivated tragedies. It’s like every single commentator I’ve heard today on CNN and MSNBC. Never once did they ever suggest that it’s even _possibily_ not about racism. And I have a theory as to why: because they know doing so will get their overpaid asses fired in a second. Can’t have any doubt introduced into a story like this. But that’s another thread. You are correct, and I will start one. Examining my underlying assumptions as part of my OP shows one of my perhaps incorrect biases. My assumption is that these days most, maybe even the vast majority, of racists are the angry asshole types. Furthermore in my opinion I think that the angry asshole part tends to be more fundamental and that they latch on to the racism part as they are exposed to the broader culture. In order to not derail this thread further on this side track I will start a new thread on this topic. ---
**Author:** ![split\_p\_j](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@split\_p\_j](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/split_p_j)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2020, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-suggestions-regarding-the-situation-around-george-floyds-death-are-these-ideas-simplistic/854661/29 "2020-05-29T23:40:39Z")
This was personal, they worked as bouncers in the same place. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-suggestions-regarding-the-situation-around-george-floyds-death-are-these-ideas-simplistic/854661/30 "2020-05-30T00:14:37Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > Solution 1a. Police departments make it department policy that officers should not be racist. Should an officer be found to express racist views, that would be a fireable offense. I highly doubt it would be legal for a government to fire someone based on their views. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-suggestions-regarding-the-situation-around-george-floyds-death-are-these-ideas-simplistic/854661/31 "2020-05-30T00:31:11Z")
But on the _expression_ of such views? Maybe not in their private lives – Facebook or whatnot – but anything they say while on the job can certainly be grounds for review and possible dismissal. Same is true for schoolteachers. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-suggestions-regarding-the-situation-around-george-floyds-death-are-these-ideas-simplistic/854661/32 "2020-05-30T00:34:07Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > I highly doubt it would be legal for a government to fire someone based on their views. If I am hearing you correctly, you are claiming that if a cop greeted every black person on his beat by calling them a “piece of shit N\*”, they could not be fired? I do find that hard to believe. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-suggestions-regarding-the-situation-around-george-floyds-death-are-these-ideas-simplistic/854661/33 "2020-05-30T00:54:01Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > I highly doubt it would be legal for a government to fire someone based on their views. You certainly can be fired if show publically you are a racist. I know that here in CA, a number of police officers were suspended, maybe fired due to racist tweets and jokes. It occurs elsewhere: [https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/406662-milwaukee-police-officer-fired-for-racist-connotation-of-tweets-about](https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/406662-milwaukee-police-officer-fired-for-racist-connotation-of-tweets-about) _Milwaukee police officer fired for ‘racist connotation’ of tweets about Sterling Brown_ [https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/18/us/philadelphia-police-begin-firing-social-posts/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/18/us/philadelphia-police-begin-firing-social-posts/index.html) _Report: 13 Philadelphia officers suspended “with intent to dismiss” for social media posts_ > **[Seattle police officer fired over profane social media posts](https://komonews.com/news/local/seattle-police-officer-fired-over-profane-social-media-posts)** > > SEATTLE - A Seattle police officer has been fired following an internal investigation that found he violated the department’s social media policy by posting profane and politically charged comments on Instagram. The investigation was launched after... > **[Hampton fires nine police officers for offensive social media posts](https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2019/07/29/hampton-fires-nine-police-officers-offensive-social-media-posts)** > > Hampton University fired nine police officers for posting offensive, racist and misogynistic material on social media. Experts say the social media activities of campus officers and other law enforcement officials are under heightened scrutiny. _Campus Officers’ ‘Offensive’ Online Posts Prompt Mass Firings Hampton University fired nine police officers for posting offensive, racist and misogynistic material on social media. Experts say the social media activities of campus officers and other law enforcement officials are under heightened scrutiny._ I could go on. So, not only _can_ you be fired- they \*have been fired. \* which is why I said “_Outright_ racists dont last long as cops.” Now, if you are a _secret_ racist… well, I dont think there can be such a thing, really. Dont get me wrong- Derek Chauvin was clearly a bad cop, who had been left on the force too long after he exhibited bad behaviour. And, maybe he was a bit of a racist, sure. But I doubt if he had a KKK hood in his closet. Cops get angry after seeing the bad guys "get away with things. " Derek Chauvin lost his temper and went too far- _way too far._ Even in the Rodney King thing, the Judges didnt say the officers were wrong to \*start \*whupping on King- it’s just that the beating went on too long. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-suggestions-regarding-the-situation-around-george-floyds-death-are-these-ideas-simplistic/854661/34 "2020-05-30T00:54:42Z")
never mind ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-suggestions-regarding-the-situation-around-george-floyds-death-are-these-ideas-simplistic/854661/35 "2020-05-30T00:56:26Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > But on the _expression_ of such views? Maybe not in their private lives – Facebook or whatnot – … Yes, even on their social media. They can and have been fired for racist posts. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-suggestions-regarding-the-situation-around-george-floyds-death-are-these-ideas-simplistic/854661/36 "2020-05-30T01:12:38Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Maybe, but **ITR** seemed to be saying that Democratic politicians are the primary stumbling block to police reform, and yet they’re the only one of the two parties that are actually pushing for any sort of reform here at all. Are there \*any \*significant voices on the right calling for changes to American police departments over their interactions with African Americans? Not that I am aware of and the blind support of the enforcement arms is one of the internal contradictions that most frustrate me with the limited government subset of the right. Now, strong public sector unions are a scourge and I’m surprised they are tolerated. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-suggestions-regarding-the-situation-around-george-floyds-death-are-these-ideas-simplistic/854661/37 "2020-05-30T01:18:31Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes, even on their social media. They can and have been fired for racist posts. I am not a lawyer. But I should think that an officer would have cause to win a First Amendment action, and/or a an action based on his union contract. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-suggestions-regarding-the-situation-around-george-floyds-death-are-these-ideas-simplistic/854661/38 "2020-05-30T03:05:20Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > I am not a lawyer. But I should think that an officer would have cause to win a First Amendment action, and/or a an action based on his union contract. YMMV. It’s doubtful, because dozens and dozens have been fired for it. This is by no means a rare thing. As a one time federal agent, I was warned that such things could lead to punishment, in fact I kept off FB until I was retired. They are told it is a firing offence. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-suggestions-regarding-the-situation-around-george-floyds-death-are-these-ideas-simplistic/854661/39 "2020-05-30T09:26:15Z")
Checking news just now I see at least two deaths during the riots in addition to George Floyd’s death. (1) A black man (protesting?) was shot by a business owner and died at the scene despite CPR attempts by police. (2) A dead woman, apparently murdered, was found in a car in North Minneapolis. (Rioting gave opportunity to someone who already wanted her dead?) News stories gave the race of neither victim. (I learned the race of victim #1 from a witness when I happened to listen to an automatic video all the way to the end.) Not all business owners oppose the rioting: > [@Ruhel Islam](#): > > “Let my building burn. Justice needs to be served, put those officers in jail.” > [@Telemark](#): > > … If the community has lots of racist members, hiring police from that community will reflect that racism… And: If the community has many minority people, it should be straightforward to put many minority people on the police force. > [@Mdcastle](#): > > My solution: prosecute each and everyone setting fires, looting, blocking traffic, committing assaults, etc to the fullest extent of the law. If you want to protest you can do so without being a criminal. It isn’t easy to identify specific culprits in huge riots. Arrest them all, and let God sort them out? I think it’s wrong to focus solely on the rioting and associated property crimes. The rioters have huge justified anger. Do you have an opinion on the tragedy that led to the rioting, **Mdcastle**? Is property more important than human life? The killer of the black protestor (mentioned above) has not yet been charged with any crime. Many of us will agree that right-wing organizations such as police unions and the NRA are part of the problem; it would be great to reduce their power. However … > [@puddleglum](#): > > Public employee unions should be banned. They are the ones who have negotiated the rules that make it hard to get rid of bad cops. Oh.My.God. Let no tragedy go to waste. By writing “Public employee” where “Police” was more appropriate, you hope to advance the right-wing anti-school agenda? Shame. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2020, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-suggestions-regarding-the-situation-around-george-floyds-death-are-these-ideas-simplistic/854661/40 "2020-05-30T11:38:00Z")
> [@Mdcastle](#): > > If you want to protest you can do so without being a criminal. Some folks tried that, and the President himself demanded that they be blackballed from their profession for protesting. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-suggestions-regarding-the-situation-around-george-floyds-death-are-these-ideas-simplistic/854661.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-suggestions-regarding-the-situation-around-george-floyds-death-are-these-ideas-simplistic/854661.md?page=3)