# Some thoughts on “Apocalypse Now”. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 5, 2019, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-thoughts-on-apocalypse-now/843025 "2019-11-05T13:18:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-thoughts-on-apocalypse-now/843025/21 "2019-11-05T18:09:17Z")
> [@mack](#): > > I hope you don’t mind if I ask a question too. > > My Apocalypse Now question is, in [the attack on the river](https://youtu.be/jelEv5fCDDs), what was the enemy supposed to be firing at the PBR? Bottle rockets? Was Coppola just being cheap or was it a legitimate tactic (like maybe masking the positions of the larger caliber weapons)? They use a similar effect during the final battle in Platoon. I think they are just using bottle rockets or roman candles as a “tracer” effect. Except in both films, they put in a “woooossshhhh” sound effect which would imply a rocket, as opposed to a “zip” or “crack” that a bullet might make. Both films were made before people decomposed every frame of a movie, so maybe it’s just meant to be a generic “mixed incoming ordinance” effect. A lot of people complain that the red and green tracers in the tank movie Fury look a little too “Star Wars” [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/q21AazXT9xo/maxresdefault.jpg "FURY First battle scene") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q21AazXT9xo) ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-thoughts-on-apocalypse-now/843025/22 "2019-11-05T18:25:19Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > They use a similar effect during the final battle in Platoon. > > > I think they are just using bottle rockets or roman candles as a “tracer” effect. Except in both films, they put in a “woooossshhhh” sound effect which would imply a rocket, as opposed to a “zip” or “crack” that a bullet might make. > > Both films were made before people decomposed every frame of a movie, so maybe it’s just meant to be a generic “mixed incoming ordinance” effect. I think the "[tracers" in _Platoon_](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUO0YjF9jWA&feature=youtu.be&t=46) are probably real tracer bullets, as, unlike _Apocalypse Now_, they aren’t being fired directly at live actors/stuntmen. They look faster and straighter than the _Apocalypse Now_ tracers, and are without smoke plumes. The whooshing sounds are probably meant to be rocket-propelled grenade launchers (RPG), and Charlie Sheen’s character shouts “RPG!” ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-thoughts-on-apocalypse-now/843025/23 "2019-11-05T18:46:30Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > They look like rockets to me. I can’t find any listing of small rockets used by the North. The Russians gave them stuff they captured in WWII. NVA loved to use what the US first termed “B-40” rockets, and later called [RPG-2](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPG-2). They also used RPG-7, IIRC. Easily portable explosive firepower, and very useful against the M113 APCs and ad hoc armored gun trucks the US often used. That said, B-40s move a lot faster than that (85 m/sec is what’s mentioned in the wiki), and indeed, a lot faster than most of Hollywood’s attempts to show the RPG. The [-7](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPG-7) moves faster still, up to ~300 m/sec at sustainer burnout. Great looking scene, even if it didn’t correspond to much in reality. Though that could be said for the movie as a whole. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-thoughts-on-apocalypse-now/843025/24 "2019-11-05T18:56:39Z")
RPG rockets [explode on impact](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myulYPM7MCE&feature=youtu.be&t=31), while the “tracers”/“rockets” fired at the patrol boat in _Apocalypse Now_ hit the boat with a sound effect akin to a bullet pinging off metal. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-thoughts-on-apocalypse-now/843025/25 "2019-11-05T18:58:28Z")
[quote=“msmith537, post:21, topic:843025”] …A lot of people complain that the red and green tracers in the tank movie Fury look a little too “Star Wars” [/QUOTE] I’m LOL’ing at the comments in that youtube link; specifically someone talking about ‘wehraboo’ rage. I’d never heard of that word before, but it just fits. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-thoughts-on-apocalypse-now/843025/26 "2019-11-05T19:11:57Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > I’m not sure you could even hear Wagner over that distinctive Huey whomp whomp sound. I think you’d hear the helis before the speakers. Search and Rescue fly them around here. You can hear them before you can see them. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-thoughts-on-apocalypse-now/843025/27 "2019-11-05T19:17:22Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > That’s why soldiers are trained to crouch whenever near a running helicopter. It probably isn’t necessary, but it’s good policy nonetheless. I was never trained this, and I worked near helicopters fairly frequently. Crouching was just friggin’ _instinct_, man. It took a conscious effort and actual willpower to force ourselves to stand erect. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-thoughts-on-apocalypse-now/843025/28 "2019-11-05T19:25:40Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > I think it was just a way to underscore the craziness that was war in Vietnam. > [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > Great looking scene, even if it didn’t correspond to much in reality. Though that could be said for the movie as a whole. Had a friend who served “in country” who said that while much of it was impressionistic, the firefight at the bridge was very realistic, down to, “Soldier, who’s in command here?” “Ain’t you?” ---
**Author:** ![rsat3acr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@rsat3acr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsat3acr)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2019, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-thoughts-on-apocalypse-now/843025/29 "2019-11-05T22:32:49Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > Let’s say you’re right. (I don’t know how high the rotor dish spins.) It wouldn’t be a problem if helicopters only landed on flat ground. Inclines, even subtle ones, can change things. > > In addition, the dish doesn’t spin at a constant height. When adding collective, the blades rise. When flattening out the blade angle, the dish drops. It also doesn’t spin at a consistent angle relative to the ground. When the cyclic is pushed forward, the dish tilts forward, which is how a helicopter moves in other directions besides purely up and down. > > All of those factors combined can easily turn 12 feet of clearance into a big hazard for people walking around. FWIIW I flew Hueys in the Army from 80-85. The blade tips were painted on the top so we could see them while formation flying. Rotors hitting in flight is not a good thing. I don’t remember the exact numbers but the rotor is about 14-15 feet off the ground and almost 50 in diameter. At any type of operational speed the rotor cant change position enough to hit a person. At very low speeds when coasting to a stop if there is a strong wind from the right direction the blades can flex down to about 5 or 6 feet. Very seldom would one operate on a slope steep enough that hitting a person would be possible. Tail rotors of course are a different matter. they are about head high. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2019, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-thoughts-on-apocalypse-now/843025/30 "2019-11-06T02:17:23Z")
The tracers do not have a straight trajectory. That is why I thought they might be imitating 25 year old rockets. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2019, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-thoughts-on-apocalypse-now/843025/31 "2019-11-06T19:02:35Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > The tracers do not have a straight trajectory. That is why I thought they might be imitating 25 year old rockets. They are flat at the ranges being portrayed in Platoon and Apocalypse Now. This is what actual tracer fire looks like: In any event, IMHO, rather than use actual live fire or animate tracer fire (which would have looked like crap back then), they used less dangerous pyrotechnics to simulate the effect. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2019, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-thoughts-on-apocalypse-now/843025/32 "2019-11-06T19:32:49Z")
> [@rsat3acr](#): > > FWIIW I flew Hueys in the Army from 80-85. The blade tips were painted on the top so we could see them while formation flying. Rotors hitting in flight is not a good thing. I don’t remember the exact numbers but the rotor is about 14-15 feet off the ground and almost 50 in diameter. At any type of operational speed the rotor cant change position enough to hit a person. At very low speeds when coasting to a stop if there is a strong wind from the right direction the blades can flex down to about 5 or 6 feet. Very seldom would one operate on a slope steep enough that hitting a person would be possible. Tail rotors of course are a different matter. they are about head high. Thanks for clueing us in from someone who’s actually been there and done that. I appreciate the info. Playing with trig, and the numbers you gave, it looks like the whole dish would only have to incline forward about 20 degrees below parallel for the end of the dish to dip 9 feet relative to parallel, which would bring the rotor tip near 6 feet from the ground. Have you read Chickenhawk, and if so, what did you think, relative to your own military service flying Hueys? ---
**Author:** ![rsat3acr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@rsat3acr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsat3acr)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2019, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-thoughts-on-apocalypse-now/843025/33 "2019-11-06T20:31:38Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > Thanks for clueing us in from someone who’s actually been there and done that. I appreciate the info. > > Playing with trig, and the numbers you gave, it looks like the whole dish would only have to incline forward about 20 degrees below parallel for the end of the dish to dip 9 feet relative to parallel, which would bring the rotor tip near 6 feet from the ground. > > Have you read Chickenhawk, and if so, what did you think, relative to your own military service flying Hueys? When I said flex down I should have said tilt. the rotor is like an old fashioned see-saw that pivots on the mast. It can tilt enough at low speeds to get around six feet but not while the engine is running. I have read Chickenhawk and thought it was great. They took more chances then we were allowed too. Things like taking off with too big a load for the conditions. A lot of the Viet-Nam vets used to tell some hairy stories. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2019, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-thoughts-on-apocalypse-now/843025/34 "2019-11-07T13:57:12Z")
> [@rsat3acr](#): > > They took more chances then we were allowed too. and needed a faster boat. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-thoughts-on-apocalypse-now/843025.md?page=1)