# Some Ulster Related Questions **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 26, 2011, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-ulster-related-questions/583230 "2011-05-26T01:00:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-ulster-related-questions/583230/41 "2011-05-26T22:10:19Z")
> [@hibernicus](#): > > I am merely trying to explain for your benefit some of the possible reasons behind it, since you asked. I appreciate it. I have in fact only used the name, while speaking English, about as often as I’ve used “Deutschland,” which is to say hardly ever, and only when I was deliberately evoking “the old country” in a humorous way. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-ulster-related-questions/583230/42 "2011-05-26T22:16:28Z")
> [@hibernicus](#): > > Incidentally, the most common way for Irish people to make that distinction is to say “the Republic”. Yes, and “the North.” Irish and Irish-Americans I know tend to be annoyed at “Ulster” for NI. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-ulster-related-questions/583230/43 "2011-05-26T22:27:39Z")
How about “America”. It can refer to the United States of America, or it can refer to the continent of North America, or it can refer to the continents of North and South America. If you want to confuse a Canadian, first tell him Canada is part of America, and he’ll get angry, then tell him Canada isn’t part of America and he’ll get just as angry. Warning: may not apply to real-life Canadians. Offer void in Central America and the Caribbean. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-ulster-related-questions/583230/44 "2011-05-26T22:38:57Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > How about “America”. It can refer to the United States of America, or it can refer to the continent of North America, or it can refer to the continents of North and South America. If you want to confuse a Canadian, first tell him Canada is part of America, and he’ll get angry, then tell him Canada isn’t part of America and he’ll get just as angry. > > Warning: may not apply to real-life Canadians. Offer void in Central America and the Caribbean. Heh. I specify North or South, or I say “the Americas.” “America,” singular and unqualified, is always the United States of. Canada is not part of “America.” But we’re close. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-ulster-related-questions/583230/45 "2011-05-26T22:47:05Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > How about “America”. It can refer to the United States of America, or it can refer to the continent of North America, or it can refer to the continents of North and South America. If you want to confuse a Canadian, first tell him Canada is part of America, and he’ll get angry, then tell him Canada isn’t part of America and he’ll get just as angry. > > Warning: may not apply to real-life Canadians. Offer void in Central America and the Caribbean. See the link in this [post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13844736&postcount=17). 🙂 I brought up the controversy over the term Eire (usually devoid of fada 🙂 ) before. It seems to stem from its use in a perhaps condescending manner in some British media. Is that correct? At any rate, it’s not a term an Irish person usually uses for the country, unless as Hibernicus says, they’re speaking Irish (or Gaelic 🙂 ). With regard to the term Gaelic, although it lacks the precision of saying the Irish language (as you could be referring to Scots Gaelic, GAA, or to Gaelic culture in general), it isn’t an incorrect term to use and I don’t understand why it grinds so many peoples’ gears. I’ve known native speakers of Irish who referred to their own language as Gaelic when speaking in English. This, however, seems more typical of Donegal Irish speakers and isn’t, as far as I can see, universal. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-ulster-related-questions/583230/46 "2011-05-26T23:24:40Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > With regard to the term Gaelic, although it lacks the precision of saying the Irish language (as you could be referring to Scots Gaelic, GAA, or to Gaelic culture in general), it isn’t an incorrect term to use and I don’t understand why it grinds so many peoples’ gears. I’ve known native speakers of Irish who referred to their own language as Gaelic when speaking in English. This, however, seems more typical of Donegal Irish speakers and isn’t, as far as I can see, universal. In Scotland it’s usually pronounced different though. Is Manx included in “Gaelic language,” too? No clue. It’s kinda like an English speaker saying they speak “Germanic” or a Spanish speak speaks “Romantic.” These might be technically true, but aren’t the most specific or most accurate terms to use. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2011, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-ulster-related-questions/583230/47 "2011-05-26T23:32:09Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > In Scotland it’s usually pronounced different though. Is Manx included in “Gaelic language,” too? No clue. Yeah Manx is sometimes referred to as Manx Gaelic too. > [@](#): > > It’s kinda like an English speaker saying they speak “Germanic” or a Spanish speak speaks “Romantic.” These might be technically true, but aren’t the most specific or most accurate terms to use. Similar I suppose but not entirely analgous. An accepted (by many if not all people) term for the native language that isn’t English of this island is Gaelic. It’s not the category the language is in, it’s an alternate name for it. I suppose context is everything but there are plenty of situations where if someone used the term I’d know exactly what they meant and wouldn’t think of Scots Gaelic, Manx Gaelic, the Gaelic Athletic Association, or Gaelic civilisation. My point is that although it irritates plenty of people, it isn’t incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-ulster-related-questions/583230/48 "2011-05-27T00:03:17Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > In Scotland it’s usually pronounced different though. Is Manx included in “Gaelic language,” too? No clue. > > It’s kinda like an English speaker saying they speak “Germanic” or a Spanish speak speaks “Romantic.” These might be technically true, but aren’t the most specific or most accurate terms to use. Manx is Gaelic, yes. I think it’s fair to say that the dialects of Gaelic are more closely related than the Germanic or Romance languages. They cover a much smaller area and number of speakers, after all. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-ulster-related-questions/583230/49 "2011-05-27T00:03:21Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > “America,” singular and unqualified, is always the United States of. Not necessarily. When I took classes in international business in college, one of the things that our instructor noted is that some people from other countries in the Americas consider their countries to be part of “America”, as well. And, about a year later, I managed to completely forget this while having a conversation with two young ladies from Argentina. I asked them, “how are you enjoying your visit to America?”, to which they replied, “we’ve lived in America our entire lives.” ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-ulster-related-questions/583230/50 "2011-05-27T00:14:50Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Not necessarily. I was speaking of my own usage, what makes sense to me and what I think is most commonly understood. It’s conceivable that I’m mistaken in either or both part, but in fact my experience has been that there is virtually no confusion with this usage, either with Americans\* or others, in or out of America.\* - Right? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-ulster-related-questions/583230/51 "2011-05-27T01:35:49Z")
There’s also the parody song, “The Orange and the Green”, which starts: > [@](#): > > My father was an Ulster man, proud Protestant was he. > My mother was a Catholic girl, from county Cork was she. > They were married in two churches, lived happily enough, > Until the day that I was born and things got rather tough. And the international Northern Irish rugby team is Ulster Rugby. The largest museum in Northern Ireland is the Ulster Museum in Belfast. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-ulster-related-questions/583230/52 "2011-05-27T01:49:58Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > There’s also the parody song, “The Orange and the Green”, which starts: > > And the international Northern Irish rugby team is Ulster Rugby. The largest museum in Northern Ireland is the Ulster Museum in Belfast. The main local tv station is UTV, used to be Ulster Television. The local police were called the Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC). There are local universities called the University of Ulster. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-ulster-related-questions/583230/53 "2011-05-27T05:52:26Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > When someone in Northern Ireland uses the term Ulster, they’re not offending anyone (well maybe soo eejits in the other 3 counties but I’ve never met anyone from there who cared). Believe me, I know plenty of people who care 🙂 > [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I don’t know the facts myself, but my dad, born and raised in Ireland, was of the opinion that they were all the same people, officially split up for various political, financial and security reasons. Your dad is wrong. The splits were real, and often deadly. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stafford_cripps/32/7167_2.png) [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stafford_Cripps)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-ulster-related-questions/583230/54 "2011-05-27T09:16:21Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > And the international Northern Irish rugby team is Ulster Rugby. This is incorrect - the Ulster rugby union team represent the whole province of Ulster. They are not an international team, they play alongside Leinster, Conaught and Munster in international ‘club’ competitions, such as the Magner’s League and the Heineken Cup (recently won by Leinster, who beat Northampton). They are overseen by the Irish Rugby Union which covers the whole island - it wasn’t partitioned in 1922. The international rugby team for Northern Ireland, ie the one which plays agains France, New Zealand, etc is Ireland, representing the whole island. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-ulster-related-questions/583230/55 "2011-05-27T09:36:45Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > The main local tv station is UTV, used to be Ulster Television. > > The local police were called the Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC). > > There are local universities called the University of Ulster. Yes, but the UK can be like that. Using the area I come from, Warwickshire: A large local radio station is Mercia Sound, a nearby Police force is called the West Mercia Police. There are several regiments in the British Army with Mercia(n) in the name. Yet the Kingdom of Mercia ceased to exist in around 1017. No one tries to refer to that area of the Midlands as Mercia. The nearest University to where I grew up is called the University of Warwick. Obviously this is located not in Warwick, but in Coventry. (When it was created Coventry was in Warwickshire, but still there was no reason not to call it the University of Coventry, the establishment that is now called that was called the Lanchester Polytechnic back in those days). ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-ulster-related-questions/583230/56 "2011-05-27T11:08:54Z")
> [@ruadh](#): > > Believe me, I know plenty of people who care 🙂 Aw I hate all that shite, my family live in a fairly nationalist area, but are probably somewhere between nationalist and don’t give a flying fuck. In work, my cousin got some statement returned to her by a superior because she used “Northern Ireland” instead of the “North of Ireland”. The funny thing is, the standard term some of my family use for the republic is the “Free State”. I refer to Norn Iron as Ulster all the time, but usually in a cod-RP accent. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-ulster-related-questions/583230/57 "2011-05-27T11:12:43Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > Yes, but the UK can be like that. Using the area I come from, Warwickshire: > > A large local radio station is Mercia Sound, a nearby Police force is called the West Mercia Police. There are several regiments in the British Army with Mercia(n) in the name. Yet the Kingdom of Mercia ceased to exist in around 1017. No one tries to refer to that area of the Midlands as Mercia. > > The nearest University to where I grew up is called the University of Warwick. Obviously this is located not in Warwick, but in Coventry. (When it was created Coventry was in Warwickshire, but still there was no reason not to call it the University of Coventry, the establishment that is now called that was called the Lanchester Polytechnic back in those days). Yorkshire as a coherent political county no longer exists. If someone told me they were from Yorkshire I’d know what they meant, and not say they were wrong in calling where they lived Yorkshire. In the instance of Ulster, the reason the term is used in the name of various institutions is because a significant amount of people refer to the place as Ulster. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-ulster-related-questions/583230/58 "2011-05-27T11:28:05Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > Yorkshire as a coherent political county no longer exists. If someone told me they were from Yorkshire I’d know what they meant, and not say they were wrong in calling where they lived Yorkshire. In the instance of Ulster, the reason the term is used in the name of various institutions is because a significant amount of people refer to the place as Ulster. 🙂 The changes to Yorkshire are in living memory. Many people are still alive when Yorkshire was just that, Yorkshire. In my examples, the entity of Mercia stopped existing a thousand years ago and the University of Warwick is in a completely different city to, well, Warwick. So Mercia and Warwick are incorrect terms for those areas despite there being many things from that area named after Mercia and Warwick. Which was my point. Just because the RUC was called the RUC doesn’t make Northern Ireland the same as Ulster, the same way as the existence of the West Mercia Police doesn’t make “West Mercia” the right term for that area, what with the kingdom of Mercia disappearing in the early eleventh century. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-ulster-related-questions/583230/59 "2011-05-27T11:42:30Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > In my examples, the entity of Mercia stopped existing a thousand years ago and the University of Warwick is in a completely different city to, well, Warwick. So Mercia and Warwick are incorrect terms for those areas despite there being many things from that area named after Mercia and Warwick. If a significant amount of people in that area referred to it as Mercia then it wouldn’t be an incorrect term, it would just be an alternate name for the place. Honestly, I don’t know how you can get prescriptive about a placename in that regard, you’re not clearing up someone’s misconception of the term, the term is used daily in that way by many inhabitants, with little or no confusion. ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2011, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-ulster-related-questions/583230/60 "2011-05-27T11:49:35Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > The main local tv station is UTV, used to be Ulster Television. > > The local police were called the Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC). > > There are local universities called the University of Ulster. Yeah, I always thought an Ulsterman referred to a Northern Irishman. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-ulster-related-questions/583230.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-ulster-related-questions/583230.md?page=4)