Although one nation state has (apparently) officially declared that “Ireland” is the name for their country. I may be wrong but no nation state has declared that “Ulster” is the right name for their country.
I just want to acknowledge and thank those who corrected my ignorance in this thread.
This comes down to whether you think people who live in a place are wrong to refer to it by anything but its offical name. It’s not officially Ulster but it’s referred to by many people as Ulster.
To answer the OP -
Are there any Protestants who support the Nationalists or Catholics who support the Loyalists especially for people such as English Catholics?
An Gadaí’s comments at #10 are accurate.
-What was the American reaction in general to the IRA’s campaign of terrorism?
Unfortunately, some Irish Americans had a very limited understanding of the IRA’s campaign. That group of supporters sent huge funding to the IRA, without which its murder campaign could not have been sustained over several decades. They did this in the face of repeated advice from the Irish government (and their own government)that the recipients were vicious terrorists, who were killing mainly their own people.
The vast majority of IRA victims were Irish, although that was rarely made clear to the US funders of the campaign.
It was ironic that right-wing Irish Americans were funding left-wing terrorists in Ireland to buy arms and explosives manufactured in Communist countries. Those arms and explosives were commonly supplied by the likes of Colonel Khaddaffi in Libya, and other equally attractive people.
After 9/11, many US funders realised that they had been funding the Irish equivalent of al Qaeda, and much of this funding dried up sharply. It is no coincidence that this was the same period in which the IRA was compelled to decommission its arms.
Is Ulster more religious than the rest of the UK?
This has been answered by other posters. It should say Northern Ireland, not Ulster, as the two are not equivalent, and only part of Ulster is in the UK.
If religiousness is measured by church-going, then the answer is yes. However, note that Northern Ireland has a higher rural proportion that other parts of the UK. Rural populations always have higher church-going numbers than urban. Church attendance maintains social contact in diffuse communities, but there is also social pressure because absence is more obvious.
Again, I point you to what I was actually replying to. Someone stating that Ulster was part of the Republic, when in reality it is spread between the Republic and NI, it is mostly in NI and it is often used as shorthand for NI.
I consider Ulster more of a nickname for NI, but one that is best not used.
This is a seriously misleading way to put it. The “splinter group” very rapidly became much larger and more influential than the so-called “Official IRA” from which it split in the late '60s, largely because the “officials” had, by this time, rejected terrorist methods (although they had used them in earlier eras of the Irish “troubles”). After the split, the “officials” rapidly dwindled into irrelevance. The IRA that has mattered, since about 1969, has been the Provos, and they certainly did use terrorism. Likewise the Sinn Fein party that now plays a major role in Northern Ireland politics, is descended from the Provisional Sinn Fein, formed to give political support to the Provos, not the original Sinn Fein party from which the original IRA developed.
I don’t know the facts myself, but my dad, born and raised in Ireland, was of the opinion that they were all the same people, officially split up for various political, financial and security reasons. Like different divisions in a large company.
Or maybe a better analogy – the political arm was similar to what the Tobacco Institute was to the cigarette industry – a mouthpiece to put out the party line and blow smoke (pardon the pun). They were also walled off from operations so they couldn’t be made to give up anything valuable if the Brits grabbed them and started slapping them around.
Don’t forget Randolph Churchill’s famous declaration, “Ulster will fight, and Ulster will be right!”
Please read again. I can add an “a” if it reduces ambiguity, but the rest of my post does not mesh with your presumed summary.
But he perhaps did mean Ulster in the traditional sense, since that was before the question was raised of only some of the counties of Ulster being excluded from Home Rule.
What could be the objection there?
Because the name, in English, of the country that occupies most of the island of Ireland, is “Ireland”. It’s only Éire in Irish.
Note that the name isn’t “The Republic of Ireland”. So yes, the country of Ireland is a republic, so you could call it the republic of Ireland, but shouldn’t call it The Republic of Ireland. The only reason to call it “The Republic of Ireland” is to distinguish the island from the country, since the country doesn’t control the whole island.
I am one of the people who find it annoying when people say Éire to mean the Republic of Ireland (or say Gaelic instead of Irish).
This reaction is not especially rational, and at root the main reason is probably that that’s not what we call it, and that the people who do call it that are usually English.
But if I had to rationalise my annoyance, it would go something like this.
- Éire is an Irish word meaning “Ireland”. Not “The Republic of Ireland as opposed to Northern Ireland”, which is the way it is commonly used by non-Irish people.
- Éire is an Irish word. There is no particular reason to use it when speaking English. It would be like someone saying “I am going to Deutschland” instead of “I am going to Germany”. Not exactly wrong, but odd. Especially if they thought by using “Deutschland” they were specifying West Germany as opposed to East Germany (to extend the analogy).
I get the impression that some nationalists/republicans dislike the term “Eire”. I’m not sure why; perhaps because it was used a lot by the British, probably pronounced incorrectly, during the time of the Irish Free State, before Ireland became a fully independent country? Kind of like a referring to India as “Hindustan” (which nobody does, but I’m just trying to illustrate the point).
Right… I guess I don’t see the problem there.
I’m with you on the “Gaelic” thing.
Except in Irish. And on all the stamps and money and all kinds of official instruments.
So when the government of the republic of Ireland uses “Éire” for the nation-state they actually govern, that is inappropriate?
It’s entirely appropriate, if they are speaking or writing in Irish.
If you agree that it’s inappropriate for someone to use “Deutschland” in a sentence when speaking English, you may understand why using “Éire” is similarly inappropriate (after all, the Germans use the word “Deutschland” on their stamps, etc.) If you don’t agree, well fair enough. I am not claiming that my annoyance is reasoned. I am merely trying to explain for your benefit some of the possible reasons behind it, since you asked.
Ah, now, that makes sense. I should have refreshed the thread before I posted, because I didn’t see your reply.
Quoth An Gadai:
For that matter, several of Tommy Makem’s songs refer to it that way, too, as well as referencing one of the four provinces (rather than just a portion of one of the four) as being under foreign occupation. And Tommy Makem sure seemed awfully Republican to me.
Of course, at least part of that is just poetic license (“A Northern Irish man I am proud to be” just wouldn’t sound the same), but I doubt he would have used it if it were actually offensive to Republicans.
I’ve just understood the point you’re making here (sorry I’m a bit slow).
Yes, you are correct that the official name of the country is Éire or Ireland, and that the territory of the state is not coterminous with the island of the same name.
However what makes me bristle is the use of the word “Éire” specifically to exclude Northern Ireland, because “Éire” just means “Ireland”. It doesn’t make sense therefore to say “Éire” instead of “Ireland” when you want to exclude the north.
Incidentally, the most common way for Irish people to make that distinction is to say “the Republic”.
The particular point of that song is that Henry Joy McCracken was a Northern Ireland Presbyterian, and would have considered himself an “Ulsterman” but led the Antrim rebellion in 1798. It is not offensive to Republicans because it evokes the United Irishmen’s ideal of an Irishness that embraces Catholic, Protestant and Dissenter.
See earlier in the thread for a list of Protestants who fought and died for Irish freedom.