# Some War Criminals are less criminal **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 2, 2005, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-war-criminals-are-less-criminal/288034 "2005-02-02T20:28:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-war-criminals-are-less-criminal/288034/21 "2005-02-03T00:37:11Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > It’s as if you’d have to think of yourself as somewhere between Mother Teresa and Jesus to be against torturing people. No, but people away from frontlines must at least try to understand what happens at real war, before they start passing judgements. Soldiers in Abu Ghraib crossed lines in treatment of prisoners in “fog of war”. Lt. Kerry was shooting civilians in Vietnam in “fog of war”. [People do terrible things at war](http://slate.msn.com/id/105552). So, why some people are treated differently? ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-war-criminals-are-less-criminal/288034/22 "2005-02-03T00:38:31Z")
> [@Rufus Xavier](#): > > Un-American? What? Why, torture is as American as apple pie! I can hear the jingle now: > > baseball, hot dogs, torture and Chevrolet! > > Just ask Philip Zimbardo how American torture is. Or Stanley Milgram. > > Torture isn’t American or un-American. It is unfortunately, uncomfortably, human. Well said. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-war-criminals-are-less-criminal/288034/23 "2005-02-03T00:50:09Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > No, but people away from frontlines must at least try to understand what happens at real war, before they start passing judgements. > > Soldiers in Abu Ghraib crossed lines in treatment of prisoners in “fog of war”. Lt. Kerry was shooting civilians in Vietnam in “fog of war”. [People do terrible things at war](http://slate.msn.com/id/105552). So, why some people are treated differently? Shut the fuck up, shitbag. You could give a shit about consistency or fairness or morality. You’re a partisan whore, nothing more. Go jerk off to your talking points and leave us alone. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-war-criminals-are-less-criminal/288034/24 "2005-02-03T00:50:31Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > Soldiers in Abu Ghraib crossed lines in treatment of prisoners in “fog of war”. Sorry spunky, but there’s nothing ‘foggy’ about a 15 year old Iraqi boy who you decide to analy rape. There’s nothing ‘foggy’ about having orders to “soften up” prisoners. There’s nothing ‘foggy’ about running voltage through another human being’s genitals. There is, however, something ‘foggy’ with your mind. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-war-criminals-are-less-criminal/288034/25 "2005-02-03T01:00:56Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > There is, however, something ‘foggy’ with your mind. Cite on US soldiers raping 15-year old boy, please? Let me remind you, all those abused are still alive. Those shot are not. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-war-criminals-are-less-criminal/288034/26 "2005-02-03T01:10:16Z")
This was for another ideologue, you read it, asshole [Ignorant fuck, try reading a newspaper](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=5781252&postcount=227) > [@New Iskander](#): > > Let me remind you, all those abused are still alive. [Wrong.](http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-05-04-prisoner-deaths_x.htm) Partisan whore. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-war-criminals-are-less-criminal/288034/27 "2005-02-03T01:33:08Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > Couldn’t you at least _try_ to be less of a douchebag, **NI**? May as well ask Mt. Everest to stop being so big. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-war-criminals-are-less-criminal/288034/28 "2005-02-03T01:41:18Z")
Makes \*_Ryan_ seem like the zenith of reason. 😛 I’m going back to that thread. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-war-criminals-are-less-criminal/288034/29 "2005-02-03T02:09:37Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > Cite on US soldiers raping 15-year old boy, please? Fish in a barrel as they say… [http://ww1.sundayherald.com/43796](http://ww1.sundayherald.com/43796) ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-war-criminals-are-less-criminal/288034/30 "2005-02-03T03:49:06Z")
Anyone who throws up false arguments and strawmen to defend this stuff makes baby Jesus want to puke. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-war-criminals-are-less-criminal/288034/31 "2005-02-03T04:20:47Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > Couldn’t you at least _try_ to be less of a douchebag, **NI**? My mama always said, douchebag is as douchebag does. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-war-criminals-are-less-criminal/288034/32 "2005-02-03T04:29:27Z")
> [@New Iskander](#): > > No, but people away from frontlines must at least try to understand what happens at real war, before they start passing judgements. > > Soldiers in Abu Ghraib crossed lines in treatment of prisoners in “fog of war”. Lt. Kerry was shooting civilians in Vietnam in “fog of war”. [People do terrible things at war](http://slate.msn.com/id/105552). So, why some people are treated differently? And you should understand what the term [“fog of war”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fog_of_war) actually means before you try to use it in an argument. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-war-criminals-are-less-criminal/288034/33 "2005-02-03T04:41:13Z")
> [@](#): > > So, in conclusion, blow me and piss off. Well, if I ever decide I need to write a letter of resignation, now I’ve got the close. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-war-criminals-are-less-criminal/288034/34 "2005-02-03T04:47:59Z")
> [@minty green](#): > > My mama always said, douchebag is as douchebag does. Is this the part where I’m supposed to say something like “Well, yo mamma oughtta know from douchebags, home”? Because I’m way above that. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-war-criminals-are-less-criminal/288034/35 "2005-02-03T04:50:25Z")
Well, maybe I will vote for Bush, after all. Oh, wait. Nevermind. Tris ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-war-criminals-are-less-criminal/288034/36 "2005-02-03T06:14:21Z")
So if torture is okay, then that means that it was okay for those fuckbags to behead the Americans in the Middle East, right? Just to clear things up. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-war-criminals-are-less-criminal/288034/37 "2005-02-03T07:07:29Z")
You’re not thinking in a **New Iskander** frame of mind, **Guin.** When they do horrible things to us, it’s because they are barbaric savages who don’t respect life and must be exterminated like vermin. When we do horrible things to them, it’s just an unpleasant consequence that comes with any other conflict, and we should simply accept it. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-war-criminals-are-less-criminal/288034/38 "2005-02-03T07:32:29Z")
Still no attempt to explain why some ‘war criminals’ go to jail and other ‘war criminals’ go to US Senate. Oh, well… ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-war-criminals-are-less-criminal/288034/39 "2005-02-03T10:11:09Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > So if torture is okay, then that means that it was okay for those fuckbags to behead the Americans in the Middle East, right? > > Just to clear things up. > > :rolleyes: no - you are being wilfully obtuse. 😉 The USA cannot do wrong, by definition. Therefore there can never be moral equivalence. If people are raped and/or killed by an American or one of their lackeys, it’s practically for their own good. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-war-criminals-are-less-criminal/288034/40 "2005-02-03T10:27:07Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > no - you are being wilfully obtuse. 😉 > > The USA cannot do wrong, by definition. Therefore there can never be moral equivalence. If people are raped and/or killed by an American or one of their lackeys, it’s practically for their own good. I also note the same article speaks of Bush’s cocaine dealing. Since when do we lock up some drug dealers and elect some to the White House? I look forward to NI’s howls of outrage. I can only assume he isn’t here frothing at this very instant because he accidentally missed that established ‘fact’. If our definition of war criminal is as wide as Cockburn’s and NI then sure - Kerry is a WC and so was anyone operating in a free-fire zone or supporting Phoenix missions etc. Works for me. Let’s apply it also to the current ‘shoot and kill anything that looks threatening; families in cars, weddings, demonstrations, people who happen to be around when shots are fired’ etc US Iraq policy too. Have to be consistent. And now that we have established that even the pinhead, lunatic repugnican accepts Cockburn as an unimpeachable source I feel free to post any other ‘facts’ revealed in his writing. Cockburn is a bona-fide journalist regardless of background IMHO. At least, unlike the Chickenhawks and their cheerleaders, he’s actually on the spot, not in his Mom’s basement squeezing his pimples while jacking off to Rambo like the OP. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-war-criminals-are-less-criminal/288034.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-war-criminals-are-less-criminal/288034.md?page=3)