# Some well-educated ideas that should unite the world against them Muslim terrorists **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 6, 2002, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-well-educated-ideas-that-should-unite-the-world-against-them-muslim-terrorists/112586 "2002-06-06T01:48:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2002, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-well-educated-ideas-that-should-unite-the-world-against-them-muslim-terrorists/112586/61 "2002-06-07T01:10:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > **The IDF shelling Arafat’s headquarters is useless, dangerous, and sure to harm innocent people. Sharon has to find another way.** I dunno, I would consider Arafat’s headquarters a military target, not a civilian one. I seem to remember people saying the Pentagon was a military target after 9/11, as opposed to civilian like WTC. His security forces are there, and one of the three buildings the IDF blew up was the headquarters of the intelligence service. Sure, there are innocent people there, just as there are civilians–office workers, janitors, mail carriers, whatever, in the Pentagon. Now one may disagree as to the effectiveness of the shelling, as in what does Israel think they will accomplish by it, but I think the HQ is a legitimate military target of the IDF. ---
**Author:** ![Efrem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@Efrem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Efrem)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2002, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-well-educated-ideas-that-should-unite-the-world-against-them-muslim-terrorists/112586/62 "2002-06-07T12:33:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > **1. I already addressed the definition of “immolation,” including Islam’s rejection of the notion of human sacrifice. You are the one not paying attention.** That does not change the fact that it is a sacrifice. Both in terms of self-sacrifice and in sacrificing the lives of others. To God, maybe (who knows what is their minds); to country, maybe still. You may say that in Islam they forbid human sacrifice, so what! Do you think they give a damn about that. If they were following the Quran they wouldn’t be blowing people up, now, would they? It doesn’t take a genius to figure out people will change their faith so long as it fits their agenda. \*\* > [@](#): > > 1. I’m not the only one who you angered in that thread, so either you’re the clever one and everyone else isn’t, or…\*\* However, not **everyone** was caught up in such arrogance and self-righteousness, just most. Believe me when I tell you this, they were acting just as foolishly judgmental and stupid as you were. \*\* > [@](#): > > 1. I’m not going to play Clintonian parsing games with you over “evil” versus “morally reprehensible.”\*\* It is not a hard concept to grasp. I think using the word “evil” tends to stop people from looking for answers. I have qualms about that word, it is too general to serve as adjective or as an explanation for Suicide Bombers. \*\* > [@](#): > > If you say you are against suicide bombing, I’ll accept that. \*\* Well thank-fucking-you, it is about time you dropped that pitchfork of stupidity and torch of ignorance. > [@](#): > > **He wrote, "“It is a code for them kind of like in Japan with their culture of warriors.” That is, Palestinian bombers have a code of honor, just as the samurai had a code of honor. I swear I am going to slap the next person who tries to tell me how to read a fucking sentence!** I WAS NOT TALKING ABOUT SUICIDE BOMBERS! You stupid ignorant prick, you are doing it again. You are placing incorrect meanings to my words, you are lying to the SDMB, and yet again I am calling you on it. Why do you resort to such lying to make your point? With your current logic I can bring up thousands of _“quotes”_ from you that accept child pornography. I just can’t believe you did it again, even when I corrected you just in my last post. This is beyond stupid, this must have been done with malice. Even you are not this dumb to make the same mistake twice (with the same fucking quote) by accident. You really are an asshole. > [@](#): > > Efrem, I know the definition of immolate as “to offer as a sacrifice”–English is my native language, so you can drop the teacher pose, buster… Maybe you should go back to ESL class. Remember this quote **gobear**? It’s where you use the fact that I am of foreign origin to make fun of me. That is bigotry. I called you on it and you never gave me an apology for this. Would it be fair to attack you for your self admitted homosexuality? You are such an jackass. All I have seen from your posts are sickening self-righteousness, blatant lying, and stupid bigotry. I hope there is more to you then what you have shown me on this board, because I am losing all hope that there is. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2002, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-well-educated-ideas-that-should-unite-the-world-against-them-muslim-terrorists/112586/63 "2002-06-07T12:54:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by kabbes \* > \*\*If I may just address **milroyj’s** hijack/misconception, “whinging” is actually a _totally different word_ to whining. It is not the same word with a different spelling. Personally, I always think of whinging as like whining only with more gusto. > > So stop whinging. > > pan \*\* **When woes and misfortunes impinge, Like the Trolls out of Hell, till you cringe, As your spirits decline, A Yank would just whine But, a Brit, full of gusto, would _whinge._** ---
**Author:** ![Efrem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@Efrem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Efrem)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2002, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-well-educated-ideas-that-should-unite-the-world-against-them-muslim-terrorists/112586/64 "2002-06-07T13:49:37Z")
Consider yourself slapped. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2002, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-well-educated-ideas-that-should-unite-the-world-against-them-muslim-terrorists/112586/65 "2002-06-07T14:00:15Z")
> [@](#): > > Saying that two groups have a code of honor in no way suggests that it is the same code of honor. That’s my opinion. You obviously disagree. > > I think that’s all efrem was trying to say. You do not. You want to slap me for it, fine. Whatever helps you get through the day. I think you misunderstood me, **Andros**. I merely defined samurai for **Efrem** , since he didn’t know the definition of the word. We are in total agreement that Palestinian code of honor might parallel thesamurai code, but is not identical. I must have been unclear in my previous post. I apologize if Isounded gruff toward you; that was not my intention and I apologize if I offended you. The Clinton remark wasn’t a dig at the president so much as a dig at li’l **Efrem** ’s predilection for playing word games rather than engage in straight dialogue, a trait reminiscent of the “what the meaning of is, is” business. **Efem** , you are a hysterical little whiner who couldn’t argue your way out of a paper bag. I made the ESL crack because you were getting really arrogant in defining words that I had already discussed and dismissed. I don’t tell Tigeina speakers that they don’t understand their own language when they contradict me; I would figure they know more than I. That’s something you might contemplate. I sould have written “rock throwers,” not bombers; that was a stupid mistake. > [@](#): > > All I have seen from your posts are sickening self-righteousness, blatant lying, and stupid bigotry. Self-righteousness because I disapprove of Palestinian ROCK THROWING? OK. Lying? Not so. Inaccuracy, but I’m no liar. Stupid bigotry? You’ll need to back that up. > [@](#): > > With your current logic I can bring up thousands of “quotes” from you that accept child pornography. Who’s the bigot? Anyway, it appears you would rather engage in childish name-calling than real discussion, so I’m done with you. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2002, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-well-educated-ideas-that-should-unite-the-world-against-them-muslim-terrorists/112586/66 "2002-06-07T15:51:13Z")
No worries, **gobear**. Big kiss and a lollipop. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2002, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-well-educated-ideas-that-should-unite-the-world-against-them-muslim-terrorists/112586/67 "2002-06-07T23:21:18Z")
**pld:** _If all bombings are murderous, then why did we need to add the “suicide” modifier in the first place?_ Well, for one thing, it provides useful information about whether there’s any need to go looking for the perpetrator. ---
**Author:** ![Efrem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@Efrem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Efrem)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2002, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-well-educated-ideas-that-should-unite-the-world-against-them-muslim-terrorists/112586/68 "2002-06-07T23:27:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\ ***Efem** , you are a hysterical little whiner who couldn’t argue your way out of a paper bag. \*\* How does one argue their way out of paper bag? \*\* > [@](#): > > I made the ESL crack because you were getting really arrogant in defining words that I had already discussed and dismissed. I don’t tell Tigeina speakers that they don’t understand their own language when they contradict me; I would figure they know more than I. That’s something you might contemplate. \*\* Please don’t take offence to this, but you know **dick all** of my understanding of the English language. So, don’t you dare presume to know more then me. Don’t dare make any assumptions about my education level, especially based on my origin. That _“crack”_ (as you put it), was ignorant and stupid. BTW the correct spelling is “Tigrinya” although it is sometimes accepted as “Tigringna”, but not “Tigeina”. > [@](#): > > Self-righteousness because I disapprove of Palestinian ROCK THROWING? OK. No, for your actions that could very be described as a lynching. You didn’t care to understand my opinions you just “knew” that they were wrong. I tried to explain it to you in every way possible in that thread, but that didn’t stop you from your crusade. You effectively made up an absurd position, claimed it was mine, then flamed me for “having it”. That is what makes you self-righteous and arrogant. \*\* > [@](#): > > Lying? Not so. Inaccuracy, but I’m no liar. \*\* I’m sorry, you made another “mistake”. You may not be a liar, but you sure are inaccurate. \*\* > [@](#): > > Stupid bigotry? You’ll need to back that up. \*\* If you would apologize for that _”crack”_ I would gladly retract my statement. \*\* > [@](#): > > Who’s the bigot? \*\* Please explain. \*\* > [@](#): > > Anyway, it appears you would rather engage in childish name-calling than real discussion, so I’m done with you. \*\* I’m sorry for not keeping my head, but it annoys me when people make comments out of willful ignorance of the position of others. ---
**Author:** ![Efrem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@Efrem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Efrem)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2002, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-well-educated-ideas-that-should-unite-the-world-against-them-muslim-terrorists/112586/69 "2002-06-08T13:26:56Z")
Alright, **milroyj** you ass, where shall we start? ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2002, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-well-educated-ideas-that-should-unite-the-world-against-them-muslim-terrorists/112586/70 "2002-06-08T16:08:17Z")
What did milroyj do? ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2002, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-well-educated-ideas-that-should-unite-the-world-against-them-muslim-terrorists/112586/71 "2002-06-08T17:09:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Neurotik \* > \*\*What did milroyj do? \*\* That’s what I was wondering. My last post in this thread was about whether or not Arafat’s HQ could be considered a military target. **Efrem’s** response seems a little overboard, to say the least. ---
**Author:** ![Efrem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@Efrem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Efrem)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2002, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-well-educated-ideas-that-should-unite-the-world-against-them-muslim-terrorists/112586/72 "2002-06-08T18:55:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Neurotik \* > \*\*What did milroyj do? \*\* I’m sorry, I should have explained in full. You see **milroyj** was part of a group of dopers (which included **gobear** ) who tryed to lynch me when they made up an absurd position, claimed it was mine, then flamed me for “having it”. Normaly, after setting **gobear** straight, I was ready to let the others go and not give them the same treatment, but in [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=119161) thread, **milroyj** made the comment: > [@](#): > > You don’t? I seem to recall a recent thread where you praised terrorists, calling them “heroes”. So I left this message > [@](#): > > WTF, you better have a quote to back that claim up. Or better yet let us not hijack this thread, we should move this disscussion over [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=118910&pagenumber=2) . I would rather take it over there, because I can flame you for your self-rightous, arrogant and willful ignorance all I want in the pit. Shall we? Clearly in this thread I did not give enough information or warning about what I was talking about when I called **milroyj** an ass. However, now that I informed you of what I was talking about, **milroyj** , do you want to still provide that quote? ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2002, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-well-educated-ideas-that-should-unite-the-world-against-them-muslim-terrorists/112586/73 "2002-06-09T00:52:58Z")
You see milroyj was part of a group of dopers (which included gobear) who tryed to lynch me when they made up an absurd position, claimed it was mine, then flamed me for “having it”. [/quote] Well, you haven’t set me straight yet because I can’t figure out what the hell you mean. From what I understand, you don’t want people to condemn suicide bombing and rock throwing without trying to understand. OK, well and good. But then you won’t call suicide bombing evil, but you will say it’s reprehensible. See, I understand that the Palestinians who commit these acts are desperate, but no matter how angry they are, it isn’t, IMO, sufficient to justify suicide bombing. YMMV. or rock throwing. Oh, and I undersatand that you don’t know dick about American history, but the word “lynch” carries significant freight in our country. You were criticized, you were disagreed with, but you were not taken from a jail cell and hanged by vigilantes. Drama queen. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2002, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-well-educated-ideas-that-should-unite-the-world-against-them-muslim-terrorists/112586/74 "2002-06-09T01:05:51Z")
Not that **Efrem** doesn’t have some good points, but a)he doesn’t express them clearly, b)he cries like a little girl when he’s contradicted, c) he seems to think _comprendre tout est pardonner tout_. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2002, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-well-educated-ideas-that-should-unite-the-world-against-them-muslim-terrorists/112586/75 "2002-06-09T05:17:36Z")
**Efrem** dear, apparently this all goes back to the “Arafat Chips” thread, where you had this to say about rock-throwers: “People see those Kids as heros, if a country invaded the USA and Americans were protesting this way you would concider them heros too.” So here’s the quote you asked for. Now what? ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2002, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-well-educated-ideas-that-should-unite-the-world-against-them-muslim-terrorists/112586/76 "2002-06-10T09:18:15Z")
**milroyj** , where in that quote, or anywhere else on the SMDB, does **efrem** _praise_ terrorism? You fucking dolt. BTW **gobear** , his use of the word ‘lynch’ is histrionic, but not incorrect. Furthermore, the United States doesn’t have a monopoly on the word, since the term originated in Galway, Ireland. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2002, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-well-educated-ideas-that-should-unite-the-world-against-them-muslim-terrorists/112586/77 "2002-06-10T09:53:03Z")
> [@](#): > > “People see those Kids as heros, if a country invaded the USA and Americans were protesting this way you would concider them heros too.” millroyj, let me get this straight. efrem is talking about stone throwers, not terrorists. He asked for a quote where you claimed that he was supporting terrorists. Can you equate for me how stone throwers = terrorists? ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2002, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-well-educated-ideas-that-should-unite-the-world-against-them-muslim-terrorists/112586/78 "2002-06-10T11:51:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*c) he seems to think _comprendre tout est pardonner tout_. \*\* Actually, **gobear** , that’s what you seem to think of him - he’s saying calling something “evil” is the easy way out, and that one should try to understand the underlying mechanisms, and you’re responding by saying: “You won’t call it evil! You want _sympathy_ for terrorists!”. ---
**Author:** ![Efrem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@Efrem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Efrem)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2002, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-well-educated-ideas-that-should-unite-the-world-against-them-muslim-terrorists/112586/79 "2002-06-10T12:42:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*From what I understand, you don’t want people to condemn suicide bombing and rock throwing without trying to understand. > > OK, well and good. > > But then you won’t call suicide bombing evil, but you will say it’s reprehensible. See, I understand that the Palestinians who commit these acts are desperate, but no matter how angry they are, it isn’t, IMO, sufficient to justify suicide bombing. YMMV. > > or rock throwing.\*\* Er… yes and no. Since you brought it up I’ll cover this topic, although this was not part of our original disscussion. You can condemn Suicide Bombings and Rock Throwing, what I had problems with was the lumping of Palestinian culture with these acts and thus “wholesale condemnation” of the whole thing. (Lets not start this disscussion up again). In the other thread, I had problems with people’s refusal to try to understand (which some took to mean justify) Suicide Bombers even if it meant that it could help in the stopping of them. This is what I equated to sticking you head in the sand, or advocating ignorance. Also, I don’t like to use the word “evil” (too general). \*\* > [@](#): > > Oh, and I undersatand that you don’t know dick about American history, but the word “lynch” carries significant freight in our country. You were criticized, you were disagreed with, but you were not taken from a jail cell and hanged by vigilantes.\*\* Taking aside the fact that I am not American, and we are not talking about the USA (so it seems a little irrelevent to disscuss American history). The word “lynch” carries significance wherever in the world you are, so take it as hyperbole. \*\* > [@](#): > > Drama queen.\*\* It is nice to know that at least I am not alone in childish name-calling department. \*\* > [@](#): > > Not that Efrem doesn’t have some good points, but a)he doesn’t express them clearly,\*\* I am willing to clearfy postion to any of those who want to know. \*\* > [@](#): > > b)he cries like a little girl when he’s contradicted, \*\* It seems like someone a little sore about the bigot comment they had gotten in the pit. I will gladly retract it, but I am still waiting for that apology ☹ . \*\* > [@](#): > > c) he seems to think comprendre tout est pardonner tout.\*\* I will need to be informed on the meaning of this phrase. (Is it latin?) ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2002, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-well-educated-ideas-that-should-unite-the-world-against-them-muslim-terrorists/112586/80 "2002-06-10T12:46:46Z")
I don’t know the colloquial meaning of the phrase, but it’s French and AFAIK literally means “to understand everything is to forgive everything”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-well-educated-ideas-that-should-unite-the-world-against-them-muslim-terrorists/112586.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-well-educated-ideas-that-should-unite-the-world-against-them-muslim-terrorists/112586.md?page=5)