# Some young people should know better
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-young-people-should-know-better/262711
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [September 2, 2004, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-young-people-should-know-better/262711 "2004-09-02T03:24:30Z")
**Posts on this page:** 13
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2004, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-young-people-should-know-better/262711/21 "2004-09-02T20:51:09Z")
> [@Liberal](#):
>
> I like Booka’s take on this. And to Ravenman, civil disobedience is not social chaos. Sometimes, the law really IS an ass.
Okay, I know I chap your ass a lot about turning every thread into a debate on libertarian principles, so I hope you’ll forgive my hypocrisy in asking you:
How do you reconcile the above post with the concept that nobody may initiate force or fraud against anyone else?
Daniel
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### Author:  [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2004, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-young-people-should-know-better/262711/22 "2004-09-02T21:16:30Z")
Cicero? Oh, yeah. It’s former mayor is doing time because she and some of her buddies from the outfit looted the town of ten mill.
> [@](#):
>
> [Also charged were Michael Spano Sr., who reputedly took over as Cicero’s mob boss after Ernest Rocco Infelice was convicted on federal charges in 1992; Spano’s son, Michael Jr.; John LaGiglio, a Cicero trucking executive, and his wife, Bonnie; Gregory Ross, a former IRS agent turned reputed accountant to the mob; and attorney Charles Schneider.
]([http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/showcase/chi-020616cicero.story?coll=chi-news-hed](http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/showcase/chi-020616cicero.story?coll=chi-news-hed))
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### Author:  [@vetbridge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vetbridge)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2004, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-young-people-should-know-better/262711/23 "2004-09-02T21:22:18Z")
> [@sturmhauke](#):
>
> OK, booka and Lib, answer these:
>
> What if the punk didn’t flip off Vito, but shouted “fuck you man” instead?
Oh…oh…I know the answer to this one…fractured jaw, multiple facial contusions, and a concussion…right?
Apologies to **booka** and **Lib** if I’ve stepped on any toes.
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### Author:  [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)
#### Post date: [September 2, 2004, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-young-people-should-know-better/262711/24 "2004-09-02T23:03:22Z")
Don’t waste time giving the finger. Just run them off the road.
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### Author:  [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2004, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-young-people-should-know-better/262711/25 "2004-09-03T00:20:26Z")
> [@Jeff Olsen](#):
>
> They make wine in New York?
Nope, different Gallo, one was Joey and I forget the other one’s name. They were the type that nobody on either side of the law missed or shed a tear over. In fact, everyone breathed a sigh of relief.
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### Author:  [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2004, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-young-people-should-know-better/262711/26 "2004-09-03T00:35:07Z")
> [@Liberal](#):
>
> I like Booka’s take on this. And to Ravenman, civil disobedience is not social chaos. Sometimes, the law really IS an ass.
Would that be the libertarian perspective on the subject? It’s okay to use violence on a private citizen to force him to change a harmless (if offensive) behavior? And it’s okay for the state to look the other way if the perpetrator has enough money and influence? So much for standing up to tyranny and coercion, I guess.
I knew there’d be a few assholes defending the thug in the OP; I never for a moment expected you to be one of them.
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### Author:  [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2004, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-young-people-should-know-better/262711/27 "2004-09-03T00:52:22Z")
Maybe it’s wrong but my sympathies lie with the old man. Not because he’s a “mobster” getting away with something but because a punk-ass kid got a dose of reality.
Sometimes there is such a thing as a guy who had it coming.
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### Author:  [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2004, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-young-people-should-know-better/262711/28 "2004-09-03T01:01:59Z")
> [@Miller](#):
>
> Would that be the libertarian perspective on the subject? It’s okay to use violence on a private citizen to force him to change a harmless (if offensive) behavior? And it’s okay for the state to look the other way if the perpetrator has enough money and influence? So much for standing up to tyranny and coercion, I guess.
>
> I knew there’d be a few assholes defending the thug in the OP; I never for a moment expected you to be one of them.
I didn’t say it was okay; I said it was civil disobedience — breaking the law. The finger-breaker should be punished, and forced to restore the punk’s finger. Nevertheless, the punk has learned a valuable lesson about civility and the possible consequences of being a jackass. It is no different than when I’ve said that if I saw a neighbor abusing a child, for example, I would intervene, whip his ass to a pulp, and then suffer the consequences.
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### Author:  [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2004, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-young-people-should-know-better/262711/29 "2004-09-03T02:45:09Z")
> [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#):
>
> Cicero, even now?
But wait…wasn’t his name **Vario** in real life, and they changed it to Cicero in the movie? 😕 Now I’m really confused.
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### Author:  [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2004, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-young-people-should-know-better/262711/30 "2004-09-03T03:10:29Z")
> [@Liberal](#):
>
> I like Booka’s take on this. And to Ravenman, civil disobedience is not social chaos. Sometimes, the law really IS an ass.
Um, what’s civil about breaking someone’s finger? (Answero-NOTHING).
And isn’t that, 'ahem, _coercive force_?
Inconsistency, thy name is **Liberal**.
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### Author:  [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2004, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-young-people-should-know-better/262711/31 "2004-09-03T05:06:03Z")
> [@Liberal](#):
>
> I didn’t say it was okay; I said it was civil disobedience — breaking the law. The finger-breaker should be punished, and forced to restore the punk’s finger. Nevertheless, the punk has learned a valuable lesson about civility and the possible consequences of being a jackass. It is no different than when I’ve said that if I saw a neighbor abusing a child, for example, I would intervene, whip his ass to a pulp, and then suffer the consequences.
Yes, I suppose he did. He learned that civility is not a concern of the rich and powerful, that those who have neither wealth nor influence have no protection from those that do, and, most importantly of all, that violence is an acceptable response to even the most minor slight.
I am impressed, as always, by your exemplary Christian attitude, **Lib**.
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### Author:  [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2004, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-young-people-should-know-better/262711/32 "2004-09-03T05:48:00Z")
> [@vetbridge](#):
>
> Oh…oh…I know the answer to this one…fractured jaw, multiple facial contusions, and a concussion…right?
>
> Apologies to **booka** and **Lib** if I’ve stepped on any toes.
That’s correct! You are well on your way to becoming a true Red Blooded American Vigilante Hero[sup]tm[/sup]! You laugh in the face of wimpy laws, because you know what’s RIGHT! Congratulations!
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### Author:  [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)
#### Post date: [September 3, 2004, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/some-young-people-should-know-better/262711/33 "2004-09-03T06:24:00Z")
> [@booka](#):
>
> I don’t see the problem here at all.
>
> Punk flips someone the finger. He thinks he’s tough or funny or whatever, but really, he’s a dumbass. Then he does it again.
>
> Old guy breaks his finger.
>
> Perfect. ABSOLUTELY fucking perfect. This is the way things SHOULD work.
>
> Punk kid has it in his head that it’s OK to give the finger to someone, and that there is little or no consequence to his actions. So, he’s got a flawed view of the world, and how he fits into it. Collapse of the American family? Whatever. In this case, the village was helping raise the child. The kid shoulda known better, even if Daddy isn’t around.
>
> Punk kid flips off a tough guy that shows him that there ARE consequences to his disrespectful and rude actions. He breaks the punk’s finger.
>
> Cop comes, sees that the social order is working, and tells the punk he should feel lucky. The cop did the right thing - there are more important things for the cop to worry about.
>
> This was a feel-good story that helped me start my day off right!
Are you fucking NUTS? Some fucking mobster, who has spent his whole life cheating, stealing and murdering to help himself to the fruits of the labor of innocent people deserves in his old age to be able to assault people and break their fucking bones with fucking impunity? What the everloving fuck is wrong with you? You think justice is served when people get their bones broken for things that aren’t even illegal? Do you think we live under the fucking Taliban? You think this is justice? Justice would be if the kid had pulled out a Glock 17 and wasted the scumsucking bastard. Fuck the criminal jackass. You think that the police, whose job it is to protect the very people the degenerate lowlife has been fucking in the ass his whole life, ignoring his crimes because he is a FUCKING CRIMINAL is respecting the social order?
If some punk had broken his neice’s finger, they’d be in a shallow grave on the outskirts of town, or doing five to ten for assault and battery at the least.
Fuck you.
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