# Somebody Buy Joe Biden a Dictionary **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 13, 2008, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-buy-joe-biden-a-dictionary/467653 "2008-10-13T00:38:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2008, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-buy-joe-biden-a-dictionary/467653/1 "2008-10-13T00:38:10Z")
[Biden decries ‘ugly inferences’ against Obama](http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jcu_Pk5tbjyy25_5VubonyUa3gugD93P8JE80) McCain implied it, Joe. You inferred it. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2008, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-buy-joe-biden-a-dictionary/467653/2 "2008-10-13T00:39:28Z")
I’m outraged. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2008, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-buy-joe-biden-a-dictionary/467653/3 "2008-10-13T00:43:14Z")
That’s it! Final straw! I’m voting for McCain/Palin! ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2008, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-buy-joe-biden-a-dictionary/467653/4 "2008-10-13T00:43:28Z")
Sorry, but this prescriptive boat [del]sailed[/del] sank waaaay back in the [16th century](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/infer). ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2008, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-buy-joe-biden-a-dictionary/467653/5 "2008-10-13T00:47:10Z")
Maybe he used [this](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/infer) dictionary. > [@](#): > > —Usage note Infer has been used to mean “to hint or suggest” since the 16th century by speakers and writers of unquestioned ability and eminence: The next speaker criticized the proposal, inferring that it was made solely to embarrass the government. Despite its long history, many 20th-century usage guides condemn the use, maintaining that the proper word for the intended sense is imply and that to use infer is to lose a valuable distinction between the two words. > Although the claimed distinction has probably existed chiefly in the pronouncements of usage guides, and although the use of infer to mean “to suggest” usually produces no ambiguity, the distinction too has a long history and is widely observed by many speakers and writers. On preview, what QED said. ---
**Author:** ![ASAKMOTSD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@ASAKMOTSD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASAKMOTSD)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2008, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-buy-joe-biden-a-dictionary/467653/6 "2008-10-13T00:51:33Z")
> [@Q.E.D](#): > > Sorry, but this prescriptive boat [del]sailed[/del] sank waaaay back in the [16th century](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/infer). Was John McCain there for the event? ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2008, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-buy-joe-biden-a-dictionary/467653/7 "2008-10-13T01:02:31Z")
> [@ASAKMOTSD](#): > > Was John McCain there for the event? He was busy that day but he did send one of his grandkids. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2008, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-buy-joe-biden-a-dictionary/467653/8 "2008-10-13T01:02:40Z")
ETA: Too late ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2008, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-buy-joe-biden-a-dictionary/467653/9 "2008-10-13T01:14:57Z")
Biden doesn’t need a dictionary. Why, he remembers when President Truman used to go to [OED.com](http://OED.com) and that’s when America was proud and had a future of infinite promise. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2008, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-buy-joe-biden-a-dictionary/467653/10 "2008-10-13T01:20:39Z")
Has _any_ English usage pit thread ever turned out to have an actual valid complaint? Seems like they always end up complaining about some usage that’s been valid for hundreds of years. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2008, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-buy-joe-biden-a-dictionary/467653/11 "2008-10-13T01:24:55Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > Has _any_ English usage pit thread ever turned out to have an actual valid complaint? Seems like they always end up complaining about some usage that’s been valid for hundreds of years. Which is ironic, since the OPs nearly always tell someone to “use a dictionary.” If they took their own advice, we wouldn’t have these threads. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2008, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-buy-joe-biden-a-dictionary/467653/12 "2008-10-13T01:35:19Z")
The next step is usually arguing that the usage in question is only in the dictionary because it’s a capitulation to the way the lowly commoners use the word, as if the whole language isn’t like that and had actually been developed in committee, and only those original specs are the _real_ rules. Lets see if that one get pulled out, or if I Heisenberged it out of here. Yes, I made up the word “Heisenberged”. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2008, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-buy-joe-biden-a-dictionary/467653/13 "2008-10-13T01:38:16Z")
Well, it certainly goes against the distinction most of us learn in high school. It’s a little disingenuous to google up obscure definitions when you probably know that. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2008, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-buy-joe-biden-a-dictionary/467653/14 "2008-10-13T01:41:31Z")
[Dictionary.com](http://Dictionary.com) is obscure? How about [Merriam-Webster](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/infer), those wacky secret dictionary compilers? ---
**Author:** ![choie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/choie/32/7829_2.png) [@choie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/choie)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2008, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-buy-joe-biden-a-dictionary/467653/15 "2008-10-13T01:45:30Z")
So this thread shouldn’t be a total loss, I shall entertain everyone with a quote from Rex Stout, a word fetishist (and creator of Nero Wolfe, a word purist): From _Gambit_, 1962: > [@Archie Goodwin](#): > > “… (H)ow about the comments I have heard you make about book burners?” > > “They are not relevant to this.” [Wolfe] yanked out more pages. “I am a man, not a government or a committee of censors. Having paid forty-seven dollars and fifty cents for this book, and having examined it and found it subversive and intolerably offensive, I am destroying it.” He dropped the pages on the fire. “I’m no mood to listen to a woman. Ask her to come after lunch.” > > . . . > > “Mr. Wolfe is in the middle of a fit. It’s complicated. … He’s seated in front of [the fire], on a chair too small for him, tearing sheets out of a book and burning them. The book is a new edition, the third edition, of Webster’s New International Dictionary, Unabridged. … He considers it subversive because it threatens the integrity of the English language. In the past week he has given me a thousand examples of its crimes. …” > > She was staring up at me. “He’s burning up a _dictionary_?” > > “Right. That’s nothing. Once he burned up a cookbook because it said to remove the hide from a ham end before putting it in the pot with lima beans. Which he loves most, food or words, is a tossup.” > > . . . > > I moved up chairs for us, but with Wolfe so close to the fireplace I couldn’t put her directly facing him. He rarely stands when a caller enters, and of course he didn’t then, with the dictionary, the two-thirds of it that was left, on his lap. He dropped sheets on the fire, turned to look at her, and inquired, “Do you use ‘infer’ and ‘imply’ interchangeably, Miss Blount?” > > She did fine. She said simply, “No.” > > “This book says you may. Pfui. I prefer not to interrupt this auto-da-fé. You wish to consult me?” Personally I cringe when I hear “infer” used the way Biden did. Can’t help it, I learned it at my mother’s knee and damned if I can change now. 🙂 Ah well, I’m still loving the guy these days, so I’ll forgive him this peccadillo. (Hell, if I can forgive the bankruptcy bill … well, actually I can’t, but I can accept it and move on. Perfect shouldn’t be the enemy of the good.) ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2008, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-buy-joe-biden-a-dictionary/467653/16 "2008-10-13T01:50:56Z")
There exist usage shiboleths, and this is one of them. Yes, the alternate usage has been around for so long that it’s “real”, in the sense that everyone knows what you mean, but when speaking in the formal register, it’s best to avoid it. Precision in that register implies education and care in chosing one’s words–both good things in a candidate. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2008, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-buy-joe-biden-a-dictionary/467653/17 "2008-10-13T01:59:24Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > Precision in that register implies education and care in chosing one’s words–both good things in a candidate. You sure it’s a good thing? Sounds elitist to me! You need to throw out a “you betcha” or three to remind Joe Sixpack you represent his redneck ass when you ride your snowmobile into D.C. chewing on a mooseburger. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2008, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-buy-joe-biden-a-dictionary/467653/18 "2008-10-13T02:04:36Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > Has _any_ English usage pit thread ever turned out to have an actual valid complaint? Seems like they always end up complaining about some usage that’s been valid for hundreds of years. It isn’t just pit threads. [Behold the creamed cheese gambit](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10280231&postcount=15). ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2008, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-buy-joe-biden-a-dictionary/467653/19 "2008-10-13T02:09:15Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > It isn’t just pit threads. [Behold the creamed cheese gambit](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10280231&postcount=15). Yeah, but see, that was just retarded. At least this OP was fundamentally correct ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2008, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-buy-joe-biden-a-dictionary/467653/20 "2008-10-13T02:09:39Z")
> [@Q.E.D](#): > > [Dictionary.com](http://Dictionary.com) is obscure? How about [Merriam-Webster](http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/infer), those wacky secret dictionary compilers? I stand by my original comment. [The distinction between “proper” use of infer vs. imply is well known](http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/imply.html). I would wager that it is even known to you. Edit: which you now concede in a post that appeared before mine. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-buy-joe-biden-a-dictionary/467653.md?page=2)