# Somebody explain the artistic merit of this painting to me please **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 15, 2013, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-explain-the-artistic-merit-of-this-painting-to-me-please/658380 "2013-05-15T06:28:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-explain-the-artistic-merit-of-this-painting-to-me-please/658380/181 "2013-05-16T17:19:44Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Instant art, just add [del]water[/del] money. So would you say a work like [this](http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/13791/slide_13791_188321_huge.jpg)(another painting by Currin) lacks artistic merit? ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-explain-the-artistic-merit-of-this-painting-to-me-please/658380/182 "2013-05-16T17:26:34Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > What do you think of [this](http://www.thecultureist.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/For-real-this-time.jpg)painting? or [this](http://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/news-articles/January2012/Bakhari.jpg)? I like the blue and brown one. It’s pretty cool the way the colors mix together, and the texture of it. The colors make me think of the earth and the sea, the swirling makes me think of a storm. A few of the sharp-angle turns feel kind of random, like they don’t really fit. Had I not read **WordMan** ’s comment, I would not have guessed that they were, apparently, painted by animals. Definitely more artistic-looking (to my totally untrained eye) than anything my 4-year-old has ever produced. I assume that humans selected what they perceived as the best of a large number of animal-produced works? That is, that this is not typical of the quality of painting produced? But even so, it’s better than I would have expected. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-explain-the-artistic-merit-of-this-painting-to-me-please/658380/183 "2013-05-16T17:52:31Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > :dubious: Pssst—the Occupy protest is over thataway. What we’re having here is a discussion of the technical aspects and art-historical significance of a well-known Abstract Expressionism/Color Field painting, extending to include some broader issues about those genres and modern non-representational art in general. you must have a leaking tire. The opening op was a WTF to a 44 million dollar rectangle. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-explain-the-artistic-merit-of-this-painting-to-me-please/658380/184 "2013-05-16T18:00:56Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > you must have a leaking tire. The opening op was a WTF to a 44 million dollar rectangle. The title of this thread and the question that we were asked to answer is “Someone explain the artistic merit of this painting to me please”. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-explain-the-artistic-merit-of-this-painting-to-me-please/658380/185 "2013-05-16T18:13:02Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I’m sorry, but this line of discussion positively infuriates me. I have _never ever ever_ in my life looked down on someone because they didn’t “get” Rothko or Pollock or Newman. Who does shit like that? It’s all subjective. > > Yet I hear crap like “I can do that” or “my kid can draw that” all the time (mostly on these boards, my friends tend not to be assholes.) Why? I don’t piss all over your tastes and what you like? Why is it so hard to understand that people can enjoy the aesthetic? I love Pollock. I think he is the greatest artist humanity has produced to this day. But that’s my opinion. But he resonates with me. Do you really think all of us are faking it for some unknown reason? > > At the end of the day, it’s about beauty to me. And Pollock, Rothko, Newman, Kandinsky, etc., all are beautiful. Here’s the question though: What makes Pollock’s works different than if say… some plumber in New Jersey went out and splattered paint on a canvas? That’s what a lot of people are trying to get at. It’s pretty obvious why Caravaggio’s treatment of light and shadow was and is amazing, but it’s not at all clear to the vast majority of people why paint splattered on a canvas is super-awesome art, and the drop cloth used by a crew of painters for a few weeks is not. ---
**Author:** ![MrSquishy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9e5f3/32.png) [@MrSquishy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrSquishy)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-explain-the-artistic-merit-of-this-painting-to-me-please/658380/186 "2013-05-16T18:13:56Z")
Just wanted to point out that many Canadians of a certain age are probably already familiar with Barnett Newman’s _[Voice of Fire](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voice_of_Fire)_. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-explain-the-artistic-merit-of-this-painting-to-me-please/658380/187 "2013-05-16T18:14:04Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > I like the blue and brown one. It’s pretty cool the way the colors mix together, and the texture of it. The colors make me think of the earth and the sea, the swirling makes me think of a storm. A few of the sharp-angle turns feel kind of random, like they don’t really fit. > > Had I not read **WordMan** ’s comment, I would not have guessed that they were, apparently, painted by animals. Definitely more artistic-looking (to my totally untrained eye) than anything my 4-year-old has ever produced. > > I assume that humans selected what they perceived as the best of a large number of animal-produced works? That is, that this is not typical of the quality of painting produced? But even so, it’s better than I would have expected. there is a certain amount of truth in art and photography as to how many images were made before a couple were selected as good enough for government work. I’ve been poking jabs at the painting in question by taking the same arguments given for art and throwing them back on the wall. It’s great art if 2 people with lots of money bid for it. This artist is given credit for starting a movement. And that’s fine. The price of this painting appears to me to be one of collecting historical trivia and not of art appreciation. The owner might as well have bought one of the artist’s shoes that had paint splattered on it. It’s the $44 million dollars that is driving this thread. If someone truly appreciated this type of art they could commission just about any art student with a ruler and a compass to knock something out for a few hundred bucks. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-explain-the-artistic-merit-of-this-painting-to-me-please/658380/188 "2013-05-16T18:16:40Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > The title of this thread and the question that we were asked to answer is “Someone explain the artistic merit of this painting to me please”. Yes and the body of it listed the price of $44 million. Don’t pretend this doesn’t have a lot to do with the WTF question. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-explain-the-artistic-merit-of-this-painting-to-me-please/658380/189 "2013-05-16T18:19:23Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > If your personal answer is “No, some form of that traditional visual language is necessary to make a work count as art”, that’s fine. You are not being deliberately kept out of any “exclusive club”: it’s just that some other people are experimenting with using a different language for art that doesn’t happen to speak to you. I fully admitted that I don’t have the background to appreciate modern art without insulting either the artists or the people who enjoy that kind of thing. And this is the kind of condescending reply I get? Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-explain-the-artistic-merit-of-this-painting-to-me-please/658380/190 "2013-05-16T18:31:46Z")
To me, that doesn’t read as condescending at all. What are you seeing in it that I’m missing? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-explain-the-artistic-merit-of-this-painting-to-me-please/658380/191 "2013-05-16T18:37:14Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Yes and the body of it listed the price of $44 million. Don’t pretend this doesn’t have a lot to do with the WTF question. > [@bldysabba](#): > > Agh. I’d written a reply to everyone and the computer ate it. In short, I appreciate how being in the same room with something like this may make a difference. The 44 M bit wasn’t actually pertinent to my OP, maybe I should have left it out seeing how much everyone is focusing on it. FYI ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-explain-the-artistic-merit-of-this-painting-to-me-please/658380/192 "2013-05-16T18:38:30Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Here’s the question though: What makes Pollock’s works different than if say… some plumber in New Jersey went out and splattered paint on a canvas? Because Pollock’s works have a structure that purely random splatters don’t. A couple of years ago a woman tried to convince everyone that [this random splatter painting](http://www.cincyworldcinema.org/photos/pollock/kvh_500x370.jpg) was a Jackson Pollock and therefore worth millions. But just a glance makes it obvious that its not his work. It doesn’t have have the structure and cohesion that [his real works](http://xmed111.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/pollock-number-1-19491.jpg) have. The intersecting white lines in the middle are particularly horrible – too balanced to feel random, too irregular to work as a meaningful juxtaposition. It’s kind of depressing that anyone thought this might be authentic. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-explain-the-artistic-merit-of-this-painting-to-me-please/658380/193 "2013-05-16T18:40:20Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > So would you say a work like [this](http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/13791/slide_13791_188321_huge.jpg)(another painting by Currin) lacks artistic merit? I personally don’t like it but it’s leagues above the first one posted. I really like the skill that went into it even if I don’t like the painting itself. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-explain-the-artistic-merit-of-this-painting-to-me-please/658380/194 "2013-05-16T18:45:28Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Here’s the question though: What makes Pollock’s works different than if say… some plumber in New Jersey went out and splattered paint on a canvas? I actually don’t know that Pollock was not a plumber. I have no idea what his background is. If a plumber can do that and affect me that way in his art, that’s fine with me. It’s just as beautiful. Pollock’s work to me has a deep sense of structure and composition. I don’t care if you’re classically trained or some hobo who just picked up a brush or can of paint for the first time. What I see when I look at a Pollock makes sense to me. I’ve experimented with “action painting” myself. It all looks like shit to me when I try it. Pollock’s work doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-explain-the-artistic-merit-of-this-painting-to-me-please/658380/195 "2013-05-16T18:47:25Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Here’s the question though: What makes Pollock’s works different than if say… some plumber in New Jersey went out and splattered paint on a canvas? > > That’s what a lot of people are trying to get at. It’s pretty obvious why Caravaggio’s treatment of light and shadow was and is amazing, but it’s not at all clear to the vast majority of people why paint splattered on a canvas is super-awesome art, and the drop cloth used by a crew of painters for a few weeks is not. That’s because they haven’t seen a Pollock in real life. Someone earlier posted a link to people trying to reproduce what he did by splattering paint around. It didn’t work, because there’s more to it than that. If you’ve never seen one, and you’ve only heard about his work from a lot of snobbish rednecks you might think there’s no difference between his work and a drop cloth. But if you’d bother to educate yourself, you;d know it was more than that. Now, after learning more, you may still decide that it doesn’t move you and isn’t something you’re interested in. And that’s fine. But if you are seriously going to ask “what is the difference between Pollock and a dropcloth” you make yourself look foolish. You may not like the end result, you may not even consider it art, but they are assuredly not the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-explain-the-artistic-merit-of-this-painting-to-me-please/658380/196 "2013-05-16T18:49:00Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > I fully admitted that I don’t have the background to appreciate modern art without insulting either the artists or the people who enjoy that kind of thing. And this is the kind of condescending reply I get? Thanks. That reply isn’t condescending at all. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-explain-the-artistic-merit-of-this-painting-to-me-please/658380/197 "2013-05-16T18:52:00Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > FYI OK, I missed the refinement of the original question. But for the sake of argument, if it sold for $2500 would we be having the same argument? Even adjusting for historical relevance it’s hard to justify the greatness of the painting in question. yes it’s snide to say all hail the artist, he invented the rectangle. But common. There are thousands and thousands of artists out there who lack greatness because 2 people with money won’t bid on their art. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-explain-the-artistic-merit-of-this-painting-to-me-please/658380/198 "2013-05-16T18:57:01Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I actually don’t know that Pollock was not a plumber. I have no idea what his background is. If a plumber can do that and affect me that way in his art, that’s fine with me. It’s just as beautiful. Pollock’s work to me has a deep sense of structure and composition. I don’t care if you’re classically trained or some hobo who just picked up a brush or can of paint for the first time. What I see when I look at a Pollock makes sense to me. I’ve experimented with “action painting” myself. It all looks like shit to me when I try it. Pollock’s work doesn’t. For the sake of argument, Pollock is great. Do you ever go out looking at local artists for inspiration? I’m more of a music appreciation person and I’m truly amazed at what I’ve heard at local establishments. And I’m equally amazed at how much a group like the Rolling Stones get for a concert. Yes,they’ve generated some great tunes but I don’t think they’re AS great outside the studio. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-explain-the-artistic-merit-of-this-painting-to-me-please/658380/199 "2013-05-16T18:58:45Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > OK, I missed the refinement of the original question. But for the sake of argument, if it sold for $2500 would we be having the same argument? Maybe, if there was a link to a local art sale that an OP would stumble across. I bet, however, that a lot of people would walk past that at an art show and turn up their nose at a $2500 price tag, with plenty of “my kid could do that” comments to boot. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-explain-the-artistic-merit-of-this-painting-to-me-please/658380/200 "2013-05-16T18:59:49Z")
> [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > So would you say a work like [this](http://i.huffpost.com/gadgets/slideshows/13791/slide_13791_188321_huge.jpg)(another painting by Currin) lacks artistic merit? the more I look at the 2 paintings I find it hard to believe they come from the same person. To me, one is exponentially better than the other on so many levels. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-explain-the-artistic-merit-of-this-painting-to-me-please/658380.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-explain-the-artistic-merit-of-this-painting-to-me-please/658380.md?page=11)