# Somebody please shove a chainsaw up Whoopi Goldberg's ass **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 4, 2007, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-please-shove-a-chainsaw-up-whoopi-goldbergs-ass/418014 "2007-09-04T16:31:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-please-shove-a-chainsaw-up-whoopi-goldbergs-ass/418014/21 "2007-09-04T17:52:50Z")
If he did not think it was wrong, why did he vigorously deny doing it when accused of it? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-please-shove-a-chainsaw-up-whoopi-goldbergs-ass/418014/22 "2007-09-04T17:55:46Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] If he did not think it was wrong, why did he vigorously deny doing it when accused of it? [/QUOTE] Likely because he feared the legal and PR consequences once he found out that it was a big deal. Just my WAG. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-please-shove-a-chainsaw-up-whoopi-goldbergs-ass/418014/23 "2007-09-04T18:03:24Z")
[QUOTE=Richard Parker] Likely because he feared the legal and PR consequences once he found out that it was a big deal. Just my WAG. [/QUOTE] Or, he knew it was illegal and was desperately hoping that his co-conspirators would not testify against him. I mean, if I were busted for kite flying on Sunday, and the feds obviously had the goods on me, the first thing I would say is “You’re kidding me. Kite flying on Sunday is illegal?” Here’s another question – If he did not know it was illegal, why go to such lengths to hide it? It makes no sense. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-please-shove-a-chainsaw-up-whoopi-goldbergs-ass/418014/24 "2007-09-04T18:10:00Z")
I just wanted to say that I agreed with the thread title before even reading the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-please-shove-a-chainsaw-up-whoopi-goldbergs-ass/418014/25 "2007-09-04T18:17:42Z")
[QUOTE=Chefguy] Whoopi Goldberg was relevant for about 20 minutes in the 70s. [/QUOTE] Which, since she wasn’t really active in the public consciousness until the 80s, you must admit was quite a feat. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-please-shove-a-chainsaw-up-whoopi-goldbergs-ass/418014/26 "2007-09-04T18:20:25Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] Or, he knew it was illegal and was desperately hoping that his co-conspirators would not testify against him. I mean, if I were busted for kite flying on Sunday, and the feds obviously had the goods on me, the first thing I would say is “You’re kidding me. Kite flying on Sunday is illegal?” Here’s another question – If he did not know it was illegal, why go to such lengths to hide it? It makes no sense. [/QUOTE] I don’t know a lot about the facts of this case, sorry. Nothing about his denial suggests to me, in the absence of other evidence, that he knew at the time the extent to which his actions were immoral. It seems possible that he did, in fact, know that what he was doing was wrong. Even if that is so, I think the ire toward Whoopi is severely misplaced. ---
**Author:** ![Ivorybill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ee59a6/32.png) [@Ivorybill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ivorybill)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-please-shove-a-chainsaw-up-whoopi-goldbergs-ass/418014/27 "2007-09-04T18:50:24Z")
I think that you have to do some significant parsing of “South” and “subculture” to potray dogfighting as something iherently “southern”. I find it curious that the person who seems most attached to the idea that there is a southern dogfighting subculture list his location as Manhattan… Based on my readings of the Vick case, there seems to be a subculture of dogfighting among some professional black athletes and some black rap artists. It would seem that the fighting dog may be seen as another aspect of “gangsta” life. Fights apparently also occur in New York City, Los Angeles, and Chicago - - areas most people don’t consider southern. Still, chainsawing Whoopi over a stupid comment is going to leave her very sore several times a week. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-please-shove-a-chainsaw-up-whoopi-goldbergs-ass/418014/28 "2007-09-04T18:52:42Z")
[QUOTE=Richard Parker] It seems possible that he did, in fact, know that what he was doing was wrong. Even if that is so, I think the ire toward Whoopi is severely misplaced. [/QUOTE] Whoopi is apparently saying that cultural upbringing excuses atrocious behavior. Vick killed dogs by drowning them, and slamming them to the ground, and electrocuting them. He trained them to fight using methods almost too barbaric to mention. Cites provided upon request. And she offers a defense based on “that’s the way things are where he grew up.” I’m from the Deep South. I have never seen, been to, heard of, or knew a participant in a dog fight. It sure as hell ain’t the cultural norm. Is there a subculture of dogfighting? Sure. There’s a subculture of gang violence too. And meth dealing. And racketeering. Do any of those get a pass? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-please-shove-a-chainsaw-up-whoopi-goldbergs-ass/418014/29 "2007-09-04T18:54:35Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] Whoopi is apparently saying that cultural upbringing excuses atrocious behavior. Vick killed dogs by drowning them, and slamming them to the ground, and electrocuting them. He trained them to fight using methods almost too barbaric to mention. Cites provided upon request. And she offers a defense based on “that’s the way things are where he grew up.” I’m from the Deep South. I have never seen, been to, heard of, or knew a participant in a dog fight. It sure as hell ain’t the cultural norm. Is there a subculture of dogfighting? Sure. There’s a subculture of gang violence too. And meth dealing. And racketeering. Do any of those get a pass? [/QUOTE] Where is she saying that it excuses the behavior? I think the subculture of dogfighting is fundamentally different from the subculture of meth dealing. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-please-shove-a-chainsaw-up-whoopi-goldbergs-ass/418014/30 "2007-09-04T19:01:17Z")
[QUOTE=Ivorybill] I think that you have to do some significant parsing of “South” and “subculture” to potray dogfighting as something iherently “southern”. I find it curious that the person who seems most attached to the idea that there is a southern dogfighting subculture list his location as Manhattan… [/quote] What bullshit. I’ve already said that the culture is incidentally in the South, not inherently there. But it is, [in fact](http://www.springerlink.com/content/n333161510264109/) , incidentally centered in the Southern US. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-please-shove-a-chainsaw-up-whoopi-goldbergs-ass/418014/31 "2007-09-04T19:03:02Z")
[QUOTE=Richard Parker] Where is she saying that it excuses the behavior? [/QUOTE] Are you seriously suggesting that her comments are not offered as a justification for what he did? How can you read it otherwise? > [@](#): > > I think the subculture of dogfighting is fundamentally different from the subculture of meth dealing. YMMV. How about gang related violence? Organized crime? The KKK? Are you saying that some subcultures are morally independent entities, while others are not? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-please-shove-a-chainsaw-up-whoopi-goldbergs-ass/418014/32 "2007-09-04T19:05:36Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] Are you seriously suggesting that her comments are not offered as a justification for what he did? [/quote] Yes. I didn’t see the video, but the transcript looks more like an effort at understanding than defending. > [@Contrapuntal](#): > > How about gang related violence? Organized crime? The KKK? Are you saying that some subcultures are morally independent entities, while others are not? I’m saying that some subcultural practices are more removed from the central moral and legal teachings that everyone in society is exposed to. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-please-shove-a-chainsaw-up-whoopi-goldbergs-ass/418014/33 "2007-09-04T19:08:22Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] [shrug] I’ve actually seen some Dopers defend cockfighting on “cultural” grounds. It’s no different from dogfighting in any moral sense. [/QUOTE] You have a point there, though right or wrong we do not view chickens they way we do dogs. More importantly, its not so much the dogfighing itself that got Vick into som much trouble, it was the abject cruelty he exhibited while being engaged in dogfighting. While I and most people do object to dogfighting, it pretty much stays off the radar until such intentional and unnecessary cruelty is exhibited. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-please-shove-a-chainsaw-up-whoopi-goldbergs-ass/418014/34 "2007-09-04T19:14:32Z")
[QUOTE=Richard Parker] Yes. I didn’t see the video, but the transcript looks more like an effort at understanding than defending. [/QUOTE] It looks to me like pontificating. Usually, attempts at understanding involve questions, not declarations. > [@](#): > > I’m saying that some subcultural practices are more removed from the central moral and legal teachings that everyone in society is exposed to. So what? Whoopi was saying that those teachings _don’t apply_ because Vick grew up the way he did. ---
**Author:** ![Ivorybill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ee59a6/32.png) [@Ivorybill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ivorybill)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-please-shove-a-chainsaw-up-whoopi-goldbergs-ass/418014/35 "2007-09-04T19:15:48Z")
[QUOTE=Richard Parker] What bullshit. I’ve already said that the culture is incidentally in the South, not inherently there. But it is, [in fact](http://www.springerlink.com/content/n333161510264109/) , incidentally centered in the Southern US. [/QUOTE] Take your incidentals and shove them. From [here](http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/boxing/bal-sp.dogfighting29jul29,0,2061858.story?page=2): 'But Goodwin said it would be a mistake to associate dogfighting solely with the South or with rural areas. In the United States, it’s prevalent in most major cities. ‘“It’s started to shift to the urban environment within the past 10 years,” Goodwin said. “It actually started in Boston and New York in the 1920s and 1930s because of Irish and English immigrants, and then it went away for a while, but it’s become huge again in cites like Chicago, New York, Los Angeles and even Baltimore.”’ ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-please-shove-a-chainsaw-up-whoopi-goldbergs-ass/418014/36 "2007-09-04T19:18:59Z")
[QUOTE=Ivorybill] Still, chainsawing Whoopi over a stupid comment is going to leave her very sore several times a week. [/QUOTE] They’re actually in the process of retrofitting the couches on _The View_ with chainsaws. The chainsaws are activated, not by The Clapper, but by The Slapper: whenever the occupant of the seat utters something forehead-slappingly inane… **VRRRRROOOOOMMMMMMM**. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-please-shove-a-chainsaw-up-whoopi-goldbergs-ass/418014/37 "2007-09-04T19:20:33Z")
[QUOTE=Ivorybill] Take your incidentals and shove them. From [here](http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/boxing/bal-sp.dogfighting29jul29,0,2061858.story?page=2): 'But Goodwin said it would be a mistake to associate dogfighting solely with the South or with rural areas. In the United States, it’s prevalent in most major cities. ‘“It’s started to shift to the urban environment within the past 10 years,” Goodwin said. “It actually started in Boston and New York in the 1920s and 1930s because of Irish and English immigrants, and then it went away for a while, but it’s become huge again in cites like Chicago, New York, Los Angeles and even Baltimore.”’ [/QUOTE] I won’t take the fact that you’re defending the South as having anything to do with your lack of reading comprehension. No one said anything about “solely.” ---
**Author:** ![Ivorybill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ee59a6/32.png) [@Ivorybill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ivorybill)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-please-shove-a-chainsaw-up-whoopi-goldbergs-ass/418014/38 "2007-09-04T19:37:43Z")
Since you seem to be having trouble following along, **Richard** , I’ll type more slowly, so you can keep up. You wrote: > [@](#): > > But it is, in fact , incidentally centered in the Southern US. Use whatever wiggle-words you want to, but you’re the one who seems to insist that the dogfighting subculture is centered in the South. I, and others in this thread disagree with that assessment. I provided a cite to back that up. In the cited article, the author (that’s the person who wrote the words) quoted an expert who used the word “solely”. Rather than quote out of context, I included the statement as written. Understand? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-please-shove-a-chainsaw-up-whoopi-goldbergs-ass/418014/39 "2007-09-04T19:47:00Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] And what about prize fighting, for that matter. How do you think creeps like Mike Tyson come to be? I’m not speaking as a pious critic, I love prize-fighting, I will watch film of Muhammed Ali any day of the week. But its a guilty pleasure, and I take no pride in it. But there it is, no? [/QUOTE] Yep, there it is - boxing and dogfighting, both involving participants being chained up, given weak opponents to kill\*, tied to rape stands, forced to fight routinely to the point of death or severe injury and then executed when they fail to perform well. Exact parallel. Good comparison.\*\* \*Ali was gracious enough not to beat Michael Kinsley to death during training. \*\*I am not a boxing fan and I don’t hunt. I have been known to eat sausage though, so there it is. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2007, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-please-shove-a-chainsaw-up-whoopi-goldbergs-ass/418014/40 "2007-09-04T19:47:58Z")
[QUOTE=Ivorybill] Since you seem to be having trouble following along, **Richard** , I’ll type more slowly, so you can keep up. You wrote: Use whatever wiggle-words you want to, but you’re the one who seems to insist that the dogfighting subculture is centered in the South. I, and others in this thread disagree with that assessment. I provided a cite to back that up. In the cited article, the author (that’s the person who wrote the words) quoted an expert who used the word “solely”. Rather than quote out of context, I included the statement as written. Understand? [/QUOTE] Yes, centered, the exact word the authors used. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-please-shove-a-chainsaw-up-whoopi-goldbergs-ass/418014.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-please-shove-a-chainsaw-up-whoopi-goldbergs-ass/418014.md?page=3)