# Somebody please shove a chainsaw up Whoopi Goldberg's ass **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 4, 2007, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-please-shove-a-chainsaw-up-whoopi-goldbergs-ass/418014 "2007-09-04T16:31:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2007, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-please-shove-a-chainsaw-up-whoopi-goldbergs-ass/418014/101 "2007-09-05T16:54:57Z")
[QUOTE=you with the face] What makes you look stupid is your insistence that an explanation, by definition, is an excuse. [/QUOTE] What makes you look stupid is that you attribute things to me I did not say. I said explanations _for bad behavior_ are excuses. Plus, your momma dresses you funny. > [@](#): > > But then to prove that, you go to all this trouble to define the word “excuse”. And in a disingenious manner at that, since your posts neglect to mention that fact until _after_ someone calls you on it. Honest to God, you really should read the thread before you get al warm and runny thinking about another opportunity to insult me. The dictionary cite was a response to a specific claim by **Miller** , which should have been clear to anyone not intent on character assassination. > [@](#): > > Let’s agree that all excuses are explanations (of a sort). It does not follow that all explanations are excuses. Insisting otherwise is fallacy. Real simple. No Venn diagrams are necessary to illustrate the madness of your argument. Gorgeous! Since that is not my argument, you can jam the madness wherever it feels best. > [@](#): > > You have a bad habit of playing the dueling dicitionaries game, but you completely suck at it. Is that your real hair? Why would you do \*that \*to it? ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2007, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-please-shove-a-chainsaw-up-whoopi-goldbergs-ass/418014/102 "2007-09-05T17:32:21Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] I think it can show that there is some connection between “excuse” and “explain,” which was why I used it. It also can be used as a response to another dictionary cite. Dueling dictionaries, as it were. [/QUOTE] As I am not playing the “deuling dictionaries” game, you’ll have to pardon me if I find a connection borne of linguistics to be entirely unconvincing. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2007, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-please-shove-a-chainsaw-up-whoopi-goldbergs-ass/418014/103 "2007-09-05T17:36:45Z")
[QUOTE=Trion] As I am not playing the “deuling dictionaries” game, you’ll have to pardon me if I find a connection borne of linguistics to be entirely unconvincing. [/QUOTE] I did not use it that way in my response to you. I included it in my response to you merely as an additional explanation. Sorry for the misunderstandng. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2007, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-please-shove-a-chainsaw-up-whoopi-goldbergs-ass/418014/104 "2007-09-05T17:45:46Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] What makes you look stupid is that you attribute things to me I did not say. I said explanations _for bad behavior_ are excuses. [/quote] And for the upteenth time, that’s not true. “Johnny shot Mary in the face because he’s crazy.” That’s an explanation, not an excuse. “Tribes in some parts of Africa practice genital mutilation because its a cultural tradition.” Another non-excusing explanation. “Fanatical Islamist suicide bombers are taught from a young age to hate Western ideals.” An explanation. Not an excuse. > [@](#): > > The dictionary cite was a response to a specific claim by **Miller** , which should have been clear to anyone not intent on character assassination. So then why did you use that in response to me? > [@](#): > > Since that is not my argument, you can jam the madness wherever it feels best. Guess I’m smoking dope then because I could have swore you said > [@Contrapuntual](#): > > An explanation of bad behavioris an excuse, by definition. But what do I know. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2007, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-please-shove-a-chainsaw-up-whoopi-goldbergs-ass/418014/105 "2007-09-05T17:53:47Z")
[QUOTE=you with the face] So then why did you use that in response to me? [/QUOTE] Because you used one. Dueling dictionaries. See above. > [@](#): > > Guess I’m smoking dope then because I could have swore you said Right. Not _all excuses_, which is what you said. > [@](#): > > But what do I know. What you like? Your mother’s maiden name? The GNP of Sumatra? Wet birds don’t fly at night? A horse is a horse? Not all Chinese don’t look alike? We could have a lot more fun as friends. Seriously. I’ve offered it before, and I do so again. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2007, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-please-shove-a-chainsaw-up-whoopi-goldbergs-ass/418014/106 "2007-09-05T18:07:52Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] We could have a lot more fun as friends. Seriously. I’ve offered it before, and I do so again. [/QUOTE] Sure we can buddies. I welcome all offers for friendship. But I’ll say this: you put a strain on our relationship, my lemon-scented fuzz bunny, whenever I catch you squabbling over semantics and dictionary definitions to score meaningless points in these kinds of arguments. It’s okay to concede that others are right sometimes. Really it is. “An explanation of bad behavior is an excuse, by definition” is a wrong statement. Friends don’t let friends just say stuff like this without calling them out on it. ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2007, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-please-shove-a-chainsaw-up-whoopi-goldbergs-ass/418014/107 "2007-09-05T18:11:28Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] I did not use it that way in my response to you. I included it in my response to you merely as an additional explanation. Sorry for the misunderstandng. [/QUOTE] Well, that’s fine. But I still don’t know what you’re getting at. I offered my view on the difference between an explanation and an excuse. Are you agreeing with it? Or not? Rereading your post (56) it sure seems like you’re using the words “explanation” “excuse” “defended” and “justified” in fairly synonomous ways. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2007, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-please-shove-a-chainsaw-up-whoopi-goldbergs-ass/418014/108 "2007-09-05T18:13:33Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] The dictionary cite was a response to a specific claim by **Miller** , which should have been clear to anyone not intent on character assassination. [/QUOTE] What you intended to show with that definition wasn’t clear to me at all, and I hope you don’t think I’m here for character assassination. I almost figured it got left in your post by accident, like a cut-and-paste “typo,” or something, because it really didn’t do a thing to bolster your contention. Sorry, dude, you know I’ve got nothing against you as a poster, but you’re simply wrong on this count. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2007, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-please-shove-a-chainsaw-up-whoopi-goldbergs-ass/418014/109 "2007-09-05T18:14:59Z")
[QUOTE=you with the face] Sure we can buddies. I welcome all offers for friendship. [/QUOTE] Cool. > [@](#): > > But I’ll say this: you put a strain on our relationship, my lemon-scented fuzz bunny, whenever I catch you squabbling over semantics and dictionary definitions to score meaningless points in these kinds of arguments. The semantics and dictionary definitions were offered to counter one assertion and one assertion only – that excuses and explanations are _absolutely unrelated_. I stand by that usage. Other posters saw it as a defense of the larger point. It wasn’t. > [@](#): > > It’s okay to concede that others are right sometimes. Really it is. I do it all the time. Really, I do. > [@](#): > > “An explanation of bad behavior is an excuse, by definition” is a wrong statement. Friends don’t let friends just say stuff like this without calling them out on it. OK. How about this. “An excuse is an explanation of bad behavior, by definition.” Does that fly? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2007, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-please-shove-a-chainsaw-up-whoopi-goldbergs-ass/418014/110 "2007-09-05T18:20:38Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] What you intended to show with that definition wasn’t clear to me at all, and I hope you don’t think I’m here for character assassination. I almost figured it got left in your post by accident, like a cut-and-paste “typo,” or something, because it really didn’t do a thing to bolster your contention. Sorry, dude, you know I’ve got nothing against you as a poster, but you’re simply wrong on this count. [/QUOTE] If I understood you correctly, you said that excuses and explanations for bad behavior were so different as to have no intersection. In other words, there are no examples of explanations for bad behavior that are excuses, and vice versa. I simply offered three dictionary definitions where an excuse \*is \*an explanation. Shouldn’t just one example suffice? [QUOTE=Trion] Well, that’s fine. But I still don’t know what you’re getting at. [/QUOTE] My response to you was solely intended to show that excuses and explanations are not totally unrelated. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2007, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-please-shove-a-chainsaw-up-whoopi-goldbergs-ass/418014/111 "2007-09-05T18:23:53Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] OK. How about this. “An excuse is an explanation of bad behavior, by definition.” Does that fly? [/QUOTE] Sure it flies. It’s irrelevant to the basis of the pitting, but yes, it flies. The charge is that Whoopi is excusing Vick’s behavior simply by offering an explanation for it. The onus, therefore, is on those who are making this charge to show that her explanation is an excuse. If you are taking the OP’s position, then I don’t see the point in trying to show that excuses are explanations. That’s besides the point. If you _aren’t_ taking the OP’s position, arguing at length that excuses are explanations constitutes a hijacking of the thread to argue a point that no one is really contesting. Either way, it makes baby Jesus cry. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2007, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-please-shove-a-chainsaw-up-whoopi-goldbergs-ass/418014/112 "2007-09-05T18:28:32Z")
[QUOTE=you with the face] The onus, therefore, is on those who are making this charge to show that her explanation is an excuse. [/QUOTE] In my opinion, it is an excuse because it is entirely exculpatory. She offers no explanation at all that attaches responsibility to Vick; she portrays him as, essentially, a victim of his upbringing. What she leaves out is as telling as what she says. If her goal were to explore the topic fully, surely she could have found reasons other than “that’s just the way they do things down there.” ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2007, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-please-shove-a-chainsaw-up-whoopi-goldbergs-ass/418014/113 "2007-09-05T23:41:12Z")
One might say, “Ted Bundy murdered people because he was a sociopath.” The is in explanation, not an excuse, by any reasonable interpretation. I don’t see any substantive difference between this and what Goldberg said about Vick. What she said, in efect, was that Vick was a sadistic dog killer because he grew up among sadistic dog killers, that being the “culture” she referred to. I understand Miller’s reaction to your claim, and I agree with Miller. An explanation is NOT, by definition, an excuse. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2007, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-please-shove-a-chainsaw-up-whoopi-goldbergs-ass/418014/114 "2007-09-06T01:22:24Z")
[QUOTE=Boyo Jim] I understand Miller’s reaction to your claim, and I agree with Miller. [/QUOTE] If you agree with Miller, then you agree that no explanations are excuses, and no excuses are explanations. Do you? > [@](#): > > An explanation is NOT, by definition, an excuse. Coolaroony! That’s not what I said, however, so I am confused by the reference. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2007, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-please-shove-a-chainsaw-up-whoopi-goldbergs-ass/418014/115 "2007-09-06T01:44:47Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] Coolaroony! That’s not what I said, however, so I am confused by the reference. [/QUOTE] You most certainly did, in post 56. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2007, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-please-shove-a-chainsaw-up-whoopi-goldbergs-ass/418014/116 "2007-09-06T01:52:37Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] You most certainly did, in post 56. [/QUOTE] What he said I said. \*An explanation is NOT, by definition, an excuse. \* What I actually said. _And yes, explanations **for bad behavior** are excuses._ Can you not see the difference? I bolded it. I have since amended it to.\* An excuse is an explanation of bad behavior, by definition.\* You know, if you folks are going to excorciate me for my misdeeds, you at least need to get the facts straight, read the whole thread, and acknowledge when I make a change. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2007, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-please-shove-a-chainsaw-up-whoopi-goldbergs-ass/418014/117 "2007-09-06T01:55:35Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] If you agree with Miller, then you agree that no explanations are excuses, and no excuses are explanations. Do you? Coolaroony! That’s not what I said, however, so I am confused by the reference. [/QUOTE] Ok, you said > [@](#): > > An explanation of **bad** behavior is an excuse, by definition. That is equally incorrect. Here is the online definition of the noun “excuse”: 1. An explanation offered to justify or obtain forgiveness. 2. A reason or grounds for excusing: Ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law. The act of excusing. 3. A note explaining an absence. 4. Informal An inferior example: a poor excuse for a poet; a sorry excuse for a car. These all involve the concept of justification, or forgiveness, or of a pardon for bad behavior. Here is the online definition of the noun "explanation: 1. The act or process of explaining: launched into a detailed explanation. 2. Something that explains: That was supposedly the explanation for their misdeeds. 3. A mutual clarification of misunderstandings; a reconciliation. I will grant this is a rather sucky definition, as it uses the term in the definition, but there is no such link to the the concepts that are associated with excuses: a justificatiom, forgiveness or a pardon. Here are the contents of an online thesarus for “explanation”: Something that serves to explain or clarify: clarification, construction, decipherment, elucidation, exegesis, explication, exposition, illumination, illustration, interpretation. Archaic: enucleation. See explain Please note that “excuse” in NOT among the synonyms. So. An explanation of bad behavior is NOT an excuse for that behavior. It MIGHT be, but not necessarily so. Your phrase “by definition”, is an imperatve that says it MUST be an excuse. You are wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2007, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-please-shove-a-chainsaw-up-whoopi-goldbergs-ass/418014/118 "2007-09-06T01:58:23Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] What he said I said. \*An explanation is NOT, by definition, an excuse. \* What I actually said. _And yes, explanations **for bad behavior** are excuses._ Can you not see the difference? I bolded it. [/quote] Yes, but the difference is trivial and unimportant. The objections raised to that statement apply equally, with or without the “for bad behavior” modifier. > [@](#): > > I have since amended it to.\* An excuse is an explanation of bad behavior, by definition.\* That, actually, I have no objection to. Which I suppose counts as a partial recantation of my earlier, “they’re totally different” statement, if that makes you feel any better. > [@](#): > > You know, if you folks are going to excorciate me for my misdeeds, you at least need to get the facts straight, read the whole thread, and acknowledge when I make a change. It’s spelled “excoriate,” you illiterate chowderhead. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2007, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-please-shove-a-chainsaw-up-whoopi-goldbergs-ass/418014/119 "2007-09-06T02:00:23Z")
Is it possible that this is just a semantic argument over the word “excuse”? One can make an “excuse” for something and that doesn’t mean that it completely abrogates all responsibility for it. An excuse can just be a mitigating factor that one should take into consideration. Sounds to me like that was what she was going for with her statements. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2007, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-please-shove-a-chainsaw-up-whoopi-goldbergs-ass/418014/120 "2007-09-06T02:03:56Z")
[QUOTE=Boyo Jim] Ok, you said That is equally incorrect. [/QUOTE] Can you possibly be fucking bothered to read the thread? Like, the post just above yours? I’ll wait for you. While you are at it, dueling dictionaries – > [@](#): > > Definitions of excuse on the Web: > > - accept an excuse for; “Please excuse my dirty hands” > - grant exemption or release to; “Please excuse me from this class” > - serve as a reason or cause or justification of; “Your need to sleep late does not excuse your late arrival at work”; “Her recent divorce may explain her reluctance to date again” > - **a defense of some offensive behavior** or some failure to keep a promise etc.; “he kept finding excuses to stay”; “every day he had a new alibi for not getting a job”; “his transparent self-justification was unacceptable” > \*\*\* apologize: defend, explain, clear away, or make excuses for \*\*by reasoning; “rationalize the child’s seemingly crazy behavior”; “he rationalized his lack of success” > - **a note explaining an absence;** “he had to get his mother to write an excuse for him” > - ask for permission to be released from an engagement > - excuse, overlook, or make allowances for; be lenient with; “excuse someone’s behavior”; “She condoned her husband’s occasional infidelities” > - apology: a poor example; “it was an apology for a meal”; “a poor excuse for an automobile” > wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn See the word “explain” anywhere in there? No? Look closer. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-please-shove-a-chainsaw-up-whoopi-goldbergs-ass/418014.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somebody-please-shove-a-chainsaw-up-whoopi-goldbergs-ass/418014.md?page=7)