# Someone explain this "Ghost Hunters" Evidence. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 24, 2010, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-explain-this-ghost-hunters-evidence/554928 "2010-09-24T20:37:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-explain-this-ghost-hunters-evidence/554928/21 "2010-09-25T04:17:31Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > If we simply dismiss anything unexplainable as a hoax we’ll never learn anything. But this isn’t unexplainable. It’s obvious that there’s a person off-camera with a string or something pulling it. > [@Acid](#): > > I agree that this particular footage is almost certainly faked, but consider if it came from someone’s nanny cam etc… I’d go with either a pet fucking with it or a draft. And by the way, those people don’t deserve better than “you’re either a mark, lying, insane or mistaken” because that’s what it boils down to. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-explain-this-ghost-hunters-evidence/554928/22 "2010-09-25T04:20:02Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > > > Lots of people reprot this type of thing and many of them are very reluctant to talk about it openly for fear of ridicule. Personally I think they deserve better than " You are either a liar, a mark, or insane." > > You’re leaving out just honestly mistaken, over-active imaginations and misinterpretations of data. In no case is magic ever an explanation that needs to be taken seriously, but that doesn’t mean the reporter can’y honestly believe what he’s reporting, or even what he’s reporting (in general terms) didn’t happen. Sure, a stationary stroller could suddenly roll across a floor for a number of natural reasons. It’s jumping wildly to the conclusion that “a ghost did it” which may be summarily dismissed. Agreed, that’s why I’m looking for other ideas. In this case, according to the video, the stroller clearly moved. It is a plastic toy type on carpet that has a knap. Vibration seems a bit much for what is shown. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-explain-this-ghost-hunters-evidence/554928/23 "2010-09-25T04:25:48Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > > [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > > > If we simply dismiss anything unexplainable as a hoax we’ll never learn anything. > > But this isn’t unexplainable. It’s obvious that there’s a person off-camera with a string or something pulling it. > > > [@Acid](#): > > > > I agree that this particular footage is almost certainly faked, but consider if it came from someone’s nanny cam etc… > > I’d go with either a pet fucking with it or a draft. And by the way, those people don’t deserve better than “you’re either a mark, lying, insane or mistaken” because that’s what it boils down to. Really. So if someone with little scientific training finds that they are experiencing some sort of weird phenomena they ought to just ignore it and not seek answers? After all it’s either someone screwing with them, or they’re just nuts. I didn’t say mistaken, because that would fall square into the category of the explanation i am seeking. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-explain-this-ghost-hunters-evidence/554928/24 "2010-09-25T04:29:44Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > > [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > > > But this isn’t unexplainable. It’s obvious that there’s a person off-camera with a string or something pulling it. > > > > I’d go with either a pet fucking with it or a draft. And by the way, those people don’t deserve better than “you’re either a mark, lying, insane or mistaken” because that’s what it boils down to. > > Really. So if someone with little scientific training finds that they are experiencing some sort of weird phenomena they ought to just ignore it and not seek answers? Huh? No, they should definitely seek answers. They just shouldn’t think that a ghost is haunting them because ghosts aren’t real. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-explain-this-ghost-hunters-evidence/554928/25 "2010-09-25T04:30:14Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > > You’re leaving out just honestly mistaken, over-active imaginations and misinterpretations of data. In no case is magic ever an explanation that needs to be taken seriously, but that doesn’t mean the reporter can’y honestly believe what he’s reporting, or even what he’s reporting (in general terms) didn’t happen. Sure, a stationary stroller could suddenly roll across a floor for a number of natural reasons. It’s jumping wildly to the conclusion that “a ghost did it” which may be summarily dismissed. > > Agreed, that’s why I’m looking for other ideas. > > In this case, according to the video, the stroller clearly moved. It is a plastic toy type on carpet that has a knap. Vibration seems a bit much for what is shown. It’s not much at all. those things roll pretty easily on carpet. I know this for a fact. You know what’s a bit much? Suggesting that it was a g-g-g-ghost! ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-explain-this-ghost-hunters-evidence/554928/26 "2010-09-25T04:32:09Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > > [@AClockworkMelon](#): > > > > But this isn’t unexplainable. It’s obvious that there’s a person off-camera with a string or something pulling it. > > > > I’d go with either a pet fucking with it or a draft. And by the way, those people don’t deserve better than “you’re either a mark, lying, insane or mistaken” because that’s what it boils down to. > > Really. So if someone with little scientific training finds that they are experiencing some sort of weird phenomena they ought to just ignore it and not seek answers? After all it’s either someone screwing with them, or they’re just nuts. I didn’t say mistaken, because that would fall square into the category of the explanation i am seeking. It’s the thinking it’s a ghost part that’s nuts, not just seeing something weird or unsual. Nobody doubts that people see things they think are weird. There is also a mundane explanation, though. ---
**Author:** ![godix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/278dde/32.png) [@godix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/godix)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-explain-this-ghost-hunters-evidence/554928/27 "2010-09-25T05:57:05Z")
The audio at that part is clearly not on the recorded video. Instead, it was added for effect and to make the thing seem creepy/surprising. Since it’s obvious the show was willing to edit in audio to make it seem spooky, it’s hard to not take the next step and wonder if they’re willing to fake/edit video to make it seem spooky as well. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-explain-this-ghost-hunters-evidence/554928/28 "2010-09-25T06:27:22Z")
Nobody has asked the obvious question. Why was the camera set up to look at part of a mattress? Were they expecting ghost bed bugs? ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-explain-this-ghost-hunters-evidence/554928/29 "2010-09-25T06:54:47Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Nobody has asked the obvious question. Why was the camera set up to look at part of a mattress? Were they expecting ghost bed bugs? WAG: So that the bottom of the stroller thing wouldn’t be visible. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-explain-this-ghost-hunters-evidence/554928/30 "2010-09-25T10:12:00Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Nobody has asked the obvious question. Why was the camera set up to look at part of a mattress? Were they expecting ghost bed bugs? They did answer that. They were trying to record a ghost coming in the window. Then they thought they heard the stroller moving. They are so poor that they cannot afford a second $100 webcam. They are so short of time that they couldn’t record one tonight and one tomorrow night. They are so dumb that they didn’t think to record just one or the other at any given time. They are so incompetent that they didn’t think to put the samera on the lfoor where it would get a perfect view of both. Instead they decided they had to try to record both window and stroller in a half arsed manner. Seriously, that;s the explanation given. They are so underfunded and so lacking in rigour that they accept half-arsed recording of events. And yet we are supposed to trust those half arsed recordings. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-explain-this-ghost-hunters-evidence/554928/31 "2010-09-25T12:53:24Z")
Just because it hasn’t been brought up, to me it looked pretty much exactly like the type of movement you’d expect if there was something leaning on the invisible edge of the stroller that gradually slipped of, giving it a bit of a jerk as it fell off completely. This could be a completely innocent mishap of the setup – there was something standing in that corner that whoever set the thing up bumped into, tilting it a little, setting up a precarious balance that got overturned at some point in the night, by a sudden draft or something. In the morning, nobody might have remembered the original state of the room well enough to notice that whatever had been standing before now lies on the floor. Of course, that means shoddy experimental setup, but the way this is presented… Well, it’s not terribly surprising. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-explain-this-ghost-hunters-evidence/554928/32 "2010-09-25T13:01:41Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > > [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > > > Agreed, that’s why I’m looking for other ideas. > > > > In this case, according to the video, the stroller clearly moved. It is a plastic toy type on carpet that has a knap. Vibration seems a bit much for what is shown. > > It’s not much at all. those things roll pretty easily on carpet. I know this for a fact. You know what’s a bit much? Suggesting that it was a g-g-g-ghost! Where did\* I\* suggest it _was_ a ghost? Cite please. What I asked for was other natural explanations. I could give a crap what the guys on the TV think it is since there is no way to clear them of a hoaxing accusation even if we were motivated to try. This is exactly the sort of response that encourages people to believe in religion and woo BTW. If I had things moving around that I had honestly caught on camera and couldn’t explain, or replicate, I’d be a little weirded out. Maybe it IS a vibration causing things to hop off a shelf, but you can’t replicate it (since unknown) to you it only happens when the garbage truck goes by and shakes the wall. I should think that would be normal. A hell of a lot of people are fairly undereducated and illogical to start with. That’s why we have so much woo around in the first place. Anyway. I knew that an air handler kicking on can cause enough suction to open and close doors on loose hinges, I hadn’t thought it would be strong enough to move around a lightweight toy like that, but perhaps I’m mistaken. I’m going based on looking at the toy in the show earlier and memories of similar things at homes of friends with small children. It didn’t seem to have brakes, pivoting axles or anything. it is just a hard plastic buggy with a simple axle and plastic wheels. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-explain-this-ghost-hunters-evidence/554928/33 "2010-09-25T16:09:38Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > > [@Magiver](#): > > > > Nobody has asked the obvious question. Why was the camera set up to look at part of a mattress? Were they expecting ghost bed bugs? > > They did answer that. They were trying to record a ghost coming in the window. Then they thought they heard the stroller moving. They are so poor that they cannot afford a second $100 webcam. They are so short of time that they couldn’t record one tonight and one tomorrow night. They are so dumb that they didn’t think to record just one or the other at any given time. They are so incompetent that they didn’t think to put the samera on the lfoor where it would get a perfect view of both. Instead they decided they had to try to record both window and stroller in a half arsed manner. > > Seriously, that;s the explanation given. They are so underfunded and so lacking in rigour that they accept half-arsed recording of events. And yet we are supposed to trust those half arsed recordings. Wow, using a low angle camera in a room is unbelievably lame. I missed that, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-explain-this-ghost-hunters-evidence/554928/34 "2010-09-25T16:19:51Z")
[QUOTE=AClockworkMelon] Personally I think they deserve better than " You are either a liar, a mark, or insane." [/QUOTE] You left out “stupid”. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-explain-this-ghost-hunters-evidence/554928/35 "2010-09-25T17:41:55Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > [QUOTE=AClockworkMelon] > Personally I think they deserve better than " You are either a liar, a mark, or insane." You left out “stupid”. [/QUOTE] I believe that falls under “a mark”. ---
**Author:** ![Patch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Patch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patch)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-explain-this-ghost-hunters-evidence/554928/36 "2010-09-25T18:01:21Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > In this case, according to the video, the stroller clearly moved. It is a plastic toy type on carpet that has a knap. Vibration seems a bit much for what is shown. It’s not much at all. those things roll pretty easily on carpet. I know this for a fact. You know what’s a bit much? Suggesting that it was a g-g-g-ghost! [/QUOTE] Jinkies, Shaggy! ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-explain-this-ghost-hunters-evidence/554928/37 "2010-09-25T20:26:20Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > That’s kind of my point. Modern technology has basically made the documenting of evidence incapable of being proven. No matter how reliable the test, the controls or the people running the experiment, there is really no concrete way to prove your results. Sound like a license for excuses. I suggest a different interpretation - modern technology means we should reject something for which _no_ evidence exists. At this point if someone claims a persistent paranormal phenomena and has _no_ good video, in this era where cameras are ridiculously cheap, I tend to dismiss the claim out of hand. Putting a second camera or a better camera in the room is so easy, I feel no sympathy for schnooks who think we’re being unfair to the g-g-g-g-ghost hypothesis. Frankly, the fact the stroller is not completely in frame when it easily could have been demonstrates that modern technology is actually harming the woo, making it increasingly difficult for believers to justify. And as for a non-woo, non-fraud explanation… well, I guess something conveniently out of frame that was leaning against the stroller shifted. Maybe it’s not _intentional_ fraud, is the best I can say. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-explain-this-ghost-hunters-evidence/554928/38 "2010-09-25T21:21:00Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > So I’m asking us to simply set aside the hoax ad concentrate our imaginations on hypotheses that might produce the same results without resorting to woo. Okay, but before we waste time doing _that_, shouldn’t we find out whether the house sits on an Indian burial ground, near an abandoned insane asylum, or close to where a pirate died while searching for his lost gold? ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-explain-this-ghost-hunters-evidence/554928/39 "2010-09-25T23:06:57Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > [QUOTE=AClockworkMelon] > Personally I think they deserve better than " You are either a liar, a mark, or insane." You left out “stupid”. [/QUOTE] I didn’t say that, **Acid** did. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2010, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-explain-this-ghost-hunters-evidence/554928/40 "2010-09-26T01:12:55Z")
It requires discernment, which is a gifting from God, to be able to tell if it is real or fake, but things like that happen all the time. If you want to believe they are fake that will define your world. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-explain-this-ghost-hunters-evidence/554928.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-explain-this-ghost-hunters-evidence/554928.md?page=3)