In your experience, did this include violence towards other people or animals? What kind of psychological damage did she inflict?
Just little things like repeated cheating, unwarranted accusations of cheating, endless derision, passive aggression, public humiliation of me whenever possible, endless drama–with extra helpings of statements to the effect that I was an emotional iceberg when I wouldn’t participate. Apart from that she is an extraordinarily self-righteous vegetarian. Non-violent as Gandhi, but a psychological rapist.
Truer words have never been spoken.
I can’t really add anything that hasn’t been said already, so I’ll just give you a thumbnail sketch of my history with my ex-wife, who is a diagnosed Borderline.
I met her when I was 20, and she was 29. We drunkenly made out at a club after she got in an argument with her first husband.
Six months later, after her divorce, we hooked up again. I, too, am an INTJ (depending on mood). Though I’d had a few more notches in my bedpost at the time than you appear to have now, this was the first truly emotionally meaningful relationship I’d ever had, and the sex was fantastic.
I got hooked good, and I lived with the infidelity, suicide threats, massive overspending, blame-shifting, frigidity, paranoid accusations, social isolation, prescription abuse, overdoses, malingering, Hoarders-level squalor, and the occasional physical and sexual assault for nine years. The good times were some of the best I’ve ever had, and the bad times were the darkest pits of despair and disgust that I ever hope to experience.
She took my youth and what should have been a time where I got out in the world and made the kind of positive experiences that would shape me for the rest of my life, and turned me in to a socially phobic, stunted, caregiver.
I’ve been out of the relationship for close to two years, and I’m getting better. I’m now in a truly emotionally fulfilling relationship, and it’s a complete 180 from my experience with my ex-wife. I’m still bearing the scars, though, and I doubt they’ll ever go away completely.
YMMV.
Reading these responses brings up a question- is BDP usually found is women? I haven’t seen a post yet describing a husband or male partner.
Another thing to throw in here: the “borderline” diagnosis is often used by therapists to describe female patients who work their nerves…a code to other practitioners that the person is a piece of work. But they might not fit all the diagnostic criterion of the disorder. My own therapist is reluctant to diagnose patients as “borderline” because of the way it is frequently used to stigmitize a certain type of patient.
That’s not to say that there is no such thing as borderline personality disorder; only that it doesn’t necessarily mean that you’re always deaing with OMG SCARY MONSTER!!
My recommendation is to break things off with her. Not because of her, but because of you. You may not be mature enough to handle a relationship that potentially will be so wrought with emotional turmoil. Also, I would be leary of someone who would reveal her disorder so early on in the relationship (and under such a circumstance). That screams to me, “I’m a poor pitiful waif who needs to extra care and attention”. On the other hand, it could mean she’s warning you of what you might be getting into. (I don’t understand why BPD would make you deserving of extra test time, since as far as I know BPD generally does not make you any less attentive than normal.)
As far as “don’t stick your dick in the crazy”, I don’t know if this is good advice all the time. I have a personality disorder (one in the eccentric cluster, so I have some have “left-field” tendencies). And like a person with BPD, emotionally I’m not “normal”. Doctor says I’m stunted emotionally–perhaps because of biological propensities via schizotypic elements in my paternal lineage. Although the disorder, almost by definition, prevents me from entering into close relationships with people, I am not someone who is so messed up that people would need to run away from me. They would just have to be tolerant of my quirks and fixations and limitations. Maybe the BPD chick isn’t for you, but you might strike the fancy of someone else dealing with issues who you might be a great match with. And since you’re an INTJ, you’re supposedly at risk for developing your own perculiar issues (your personality type may make you attractive to eccentric people, just so you know ;)). I say, in general, take each person as they come, as an individual, and make your judgements based on your experiences with them. Not on what some diagnostic manual says.
Most personality disorders affect the sexes equally. The exceptions are BPD, which affects women about 3:1, and Antisocial PD (aka psychopathy), which affects men about 3:1. I think Histrionic PD is more common in women as well.
For the record, I may have known a few (not diagnosed but strong symptoms). The one who affected me the most was male.
I will suggest, if you choose not to take the advice to run you do put into place some protection for yourself. Figure out what your boundaries are, make them clear to her and FOLLOW THROUGH. Figure out what you will do if she has a temper tantrum in public. What will you do if she lies, cheats or steals from you. You also have to figure out a way that there is some kind of escalating form of what will happen when she crosses the boundaries. In the long run you have to be willing and able to walk or you will find yourself one day questioning whether the sky is blue and all your personal integrity will be gone.
As an offhand observation, I have to say the phrase ‘don’t stick your dick in the crazy’ is one of my favorite sayings of all time now.
I’ve dated several women with BPD, never knowing it beforehand, but attracted to the type. It’s never worked out well. My first OPD girlfriend, in college 34 years ago, lives in a town a few miles from where I’m staying now (I’m visiting my daughter at college). I called her up, remembering her as a fascinating, beautiful, vivacious woman, and wondered vaguely why exactly we broke up. After a few hours of catching up, I remembered: she ran down a major Manhattan street with her top off, and tried to make it my fault she did that. She also pulled a knife on me. Sadly, she’s still the same today, and when I left I was very glad that I had the sense to break up with her 34 years ago.
Labels for mental dysfunction are based on human opinions referencing a set of diagnostic criteria that sometimes seem large enough to include every questionable human behavior on the planet. So maybe she’s seriously dangerous, or maybe she isn’t.
Let’s assume for the sake of the argument that she is dangerously nuts when off her meds. If that’s the case, and she’s fertile you need (as others have noted) to be very, very careful, because if she becomes pregnant she will have you by the short hairs for a good chunk of your life. Condoms break with some frequency. If you are considering continuing the relationship I’d step waaaayyyy back from any penetrative sex until you have a handle on where this is going and the full extent of her dysfunction.
People sometimes make jokes about mental dysfunction (the crazy) but dealing with mentally dysfunctional people is unfunny in the extreme, is utterly exhausting and gobbles up your life.
Learn the difference between “mental Illness” in a general sense, and “personality disorder.” This is a much stronger and more tenacious category. Most mental illnesses may occasionally make a person do bad or weird things that are out of character, especially if they are off their meds.
A personality disorder is a function of character, a basic self-definition problem. It’s not that she’s a really good person who is affected by this, it’s that she really like this, therefore she is diagnosed as. . .
I have a friend who has “mild” BPD. She is religious about her meds, (and Abilify has made a huge difference for her) and calls her doctor whenever I recommend it. She has graduate degrees from both Harvard and Cambridge, and earns a six-figure salary. She also needs an enormous amount of help to remain relatively stable, and without a strong network of very dedicated friends she would end up homeless in a few months.
I love her dearly - she is a great friend and utterly brilliant, compassionate, and completely bat-shit nuts. You just wouldn’t believe the stuff she has done. She once jumped in front of a speeding fire truck because her fireman boyfriend (in another county) wasn’t returning her calls, and she figured these guys could get in touch with him and tell him how really very important it was that she hear from him.
She has never had a relationship in which the police were not involved.
Read that last line again. You seem to me to be the sort who would prefer to live his life without ever being mentioned in a police report. If I’m right about that, you don’t want to date this woman. This is the type of person who will confuse you not saying the right thing to her the morning after, with her never having consented to the sex in the first place. This is the type of person who will confuse you checking up on her after a suicide threat with you stalking her. And she will call the police. Most BPDs need drama, and I don’t just mean tears. They need lights and sirens and utter misery. They need loud arguments and smashing china and often, they need violence.
BPDs are restless and discontent in a calm, consistent environment.
I love my friend, but I would NEVER recommend that anybody date her.
Welsome to dating. It is not, as many people start out thinking, a process of assuming each one is THE one until proven otherwise. And it is not hard-hearted to admit that somebody is wrong for you. The very worst thing you can do in dating is continue to see someone, knowing they are probably not right for you. (Would it really be fair to let her get attached and go through all the pain of then losing the relationship?)
Dating is a process of elimination, culminating with the discovery of the person who best fits as a companion for your life. The one who can best help you to become the best you possible.
Go find her.
There is a British sitcom called coupling where they mention a line in dating which I’ll call the crazy-hot line. It basically states that as craziness goes up, hotness must go up to match for the relationship to be worth it. From what I’ve read, this girl has to be among the top 0.1% hottest women on the planet for this to be remotely thinkable. Running sounds like the safest bet.
Although, I’ve also heard there is no sex like crazy sex.
Crazy sex is not hot to the uninitiated; it is damaging, sometimes permanently so. Crazy sex is only hot to the jaded palate, numbed by repeat excursions without benefit of emotion.
We have conquered many social fears. (Or at least learned how to speak PC to them.) Three flag behind:
- Old age
- Obesity
- Mental disorders
People with BPD, if they survive long enough, tend to “burn out” symptomatically around middle-age. Their saving hope is a person in their lives who is a constant.
Unless you have a great deal of love, determination, altruism, personal strength and wellness, stalwart boundaries and a good deal of knowledge and experience in the area, probably don’t plan on being that person.
Bless us all, those dear, mercurial folks hurt. And their pain is contagious.
Error: that would be lag behind. ^
You probably really don’t want to know, or at the least you probably don’t want to learn this from experience.
It’s er, brave, to base your sexual choices on sit-coms. Saying that, who has seen the film ‘Betty Blue’ and wouldn’t be still be tempted by Béatrice Dalles character even knowing the ending? There is an attractiveness, a beauty, in a face that has suffered.
Saying that, anyone who can finish a law degree is stable enough for me to date. It wouldn’t be the first time I have went to sleep half expecting to wake up with a knife in me. I suspect the OP know has so many trust issues that any possible future relationship has been wrecked in advance, but I’d still caution against letting her tie you up during sex.
Oh dear. I did that once. For like 6 years. I wrote a similar post here too a while back about it actually. Biggest mistake EVER! (dating the lunatic, not writing the post…). That’s not to say it’s always the case, and really I doubt many borderline people are quite as bad as my sweetie with his BPD AND narcissism (with just a touch of antisocial personality disorder thrown in there for good measure, if you ask me), but still, I think BPD pretty much necessarily means drama, drama, and more drama.
I know a couple other people (both women) who haven’t been diagnosed with BPD but I very strongly suspect that they have it, and they can’t maintain relationships either. In my experience, it’s not just difficult to get along with someone with BPD, but it’s downright impossible. Not ALL the time, of course. Psycho Ex can be so much fun, so can the other girl I know…but it can all end in a flash and there’s no way you can anticipate it or prevent it from happening. It will, however, be all your fault.
They’re emotional vampires, just SO exhausting to deal with. It’s one thing if it’s someone close to you such as a family member, but if I newly meet anyone who shows any signs of acting like that now, I run away screaming BEFORE it gets to the point where it’s difficult to walk away, like it was with my ex. Random people you go on a few dates with are a dime a dozen!
The ONLY way you can win this game is to not play it.
No, they really, really don’t. To them I think the contradiction would be the unfathomable idea of getting along with someone you have strong feelings for.
That was exactly my experience too. You end up losing perspective because you’re so deep in their “mental illness theater” (heard that phrase once on a crime documentary show about a mentally ill guy’s wacky antics while representing himself in court, and I thought that was a great way to describe dealing with my ex).
Mine slashed my tires because I refused to see him. I had to move so he wouldn’t know where I live.
My ex was somehow able to see the doctor who DEVELOPED the DBT program for treating BPD. And yeah, he went about 3 times, dismissed it as “white people shit” (to be fair, he dismisses almost everything in the entire world as white people shit), and refused to go back.