# Someone murders your spouse or child. Can you imagine yourself NOT taking vengeance? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 31, 2008, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-murders-your-spouse-or-child-can-you-imagine-yourself-not-taking-vengeance/435668 "2008-01-31T02:05:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-murders-your-spouse-or-child-can-you-imagine-yourself-not-taking-vengeance/435668/1 "2008-01-31T02:05:39Z")
Lest any mods grow vexed, let’s all agree that taking revenge on a murderer by murdering him or her is a bad thing, okay? What I’m interested in is Dopers’ self-assessments of their ability to control themselves. So here’s sitch: A person murders your spouse or child. And I meann MURDER murder; we’ re not talking a driving accident, we’ re talking about a deliberate killing to, say, prevent the victim from testifying about being robbed or by the perp. Your loved one died in agony and in front of you, but, somehow, the killer got off. Some time after this, you find yourself in a situation where the killer is utterly at your mercy: let’s say you were driving down a deserted road and saw him jogging, then, through mischance, injure his ankle so severely he cannot possibly run away. Would you be able to resist the urge to take vengeance? How would you persuade yourself to do do? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-murders-your-spouse-or-child-can-you-imagine-yourself-not-taking-vengeance/435668/2 "2008-01-31T02:27:45Z")
Would running them over and over and over and over bring back my wife? No. Then I wouldn’t do it. Now, if I thought he recognized me, and was reaching for a pistol he was carrying in an ankle holster, and I perceived that I was in “imminent danger of life or limb,” then yeah, I’d lay rubber on his lungs. ---
**Author:** ![MadPansy64](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@MadPansy64](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MadPansy64)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-murders-your-spouse-or-child-can-you-imagine-yourself-not-taking-vengeance/435668/3 "2008-01-31T02:37:13Z")
Oh, my. On such a deserted road, I was just so concerned about the deer/antelope/moose that leapt in front of my car that I never even saw that poor person laying on the road! I’m so sorry – They really need to do something about those deer/antelope/mooses wandering all over the road like that! I’m a widow and just can’t afford an insurance claim for hitting a deer/antelope/moose. ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-murders-your-spouse-or-child-can-you-imagine-yourself-not-taking-vengeance/435668/4 "2008-01-31T02:42:18Z")
I’d waste him/her. Not a second thought, without an iota of remorse. ---
**Author:** ![giant\_freakin\_marine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9fc348/32.png) [@giant\_freakin\_marine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/giant_freakin_marine)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-murders-your-spouse-or-child-can-you-imagine-yourself-not-taking-vengeance/435668/5 "2008-01-31T02:46:49Z")
Because of my renowned love for all people, no matter what the previous circumstance, I would immediately render aid. Now, I realize that for some, perfoming emergency surgery with a buck knife in a remote area, unaided, where ligaments, muscles, and tendons from various other parts of his body will have to be obtained, without the benefit of anesthetics, to see if they will be the right “fit” to repair the damaged ankle, is not for everyone. I, however, would feel obliged to give it the “old USMC try,” and hope for the best. ---
**Author:** ![Alice\_The\_Goon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Alice\_The\_Goon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alice_The_Goon)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-murders-your-spouse-or-child-can-you-imagine-yourself-not-taking-vengeance/435668/6 "2008-01-31T02:48:28Z")
I would _want_ to, sure. But, I’m not a murderer, so no, I wouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-murders-your-spouse-or-child-can-you-imagine-yourself-not-taking-vengeance/435668/7 "2008-01-31T02:49:38Z")
It’s a fantasy you don’t want to think about, but thinking about it kinda makes one feel closer to the person who was theoretically murdered. I’ve written it into lectures and the psychology behind it is very interesting. Outside of the academic - yeah, of course I’ve considered what I’d do - would I go all “A Time to Kill” on someone in a courtroom or would I silently let them have it somewhere else…or would I do nothing. And doing nothing never appears to be an option in this kind of theoretical situation. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-murders-your-spouse-or-child-can-you-imagine-yourself-not-taking-vengeance/435668/8 "2008-01-31T02:50:03Z")
If there was no way I’d be found out, then yeah. I’d seriously think about it. But there’s a point when revenge turns you into a [monster](http://www.datalounge.com/cgi-bin/iowa/forum/thread/gossip/5908601/page-1.html), even when the rage you’re feeling is completely justifiable. I don’t think I’d be brave enough to let myself cross over onto the dark side. ---
**Author:** ![A.R.Cane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@A.R.Cane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.R.Cane)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-murders-your-spouse-or-child-can-you-imagine-yourself-not-taking-vengeance/435668/9 "2008-01-31T02:55:38Z")
Trust me on this, it’s a lot easier to talk about killing someone than it is to do it and live w/ it. Even if the killer were in jeopardy and you had the power to let them die, or save them, I think most people would save them. Killing someone in these circumstances simply puts you in a category similar to the original killer. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-murders-your-spouse-or-child-can-you-imagine-yourself-not-taking-vengeance/435668/10 "2008-01-31T03:08:44Z")
I’ll just quote my response from the “[What emotion don’t you ‘get’?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=452878)” thread: > [@](#): > > The desire for revenge. When I hear about the parent of some murdered child forgiving the killer, and there’s all sorts of astonishment and disbelief, or I read about the horrible punishments that are wished on people who commit really minor offences (taking your parking spot, being too slow in the checkout line, etc.), I really can’t understand that feeling. Sure, I get angry when someone hurts or annoys me, but beyond the accepted legal punishments, I can’t see wanting to make someone burn in hell or suffer assorted creative tortures. I usually hope for the offender to see the error of his ways and become a better person. I just don’t get how having something bad happen to someone who has already done something wrong serves any real purpose. I see it more as “two wrongs don’t make a right” than “an eye for an eye.” ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-murders-your-spouse-or-child-can-you-imagine-yourself-not-taking-vengeance/435668/11 "2008-01-31T03:48:15Z")
I don’t usually tend to get biblical, but there is a time to every purpose. Then would certainly be the time. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-murders-your-spouse-or-child-can-you-imagine-yourself-not-taking-vengeance/435668/12 "2008-01-31T03:51:42Z")
Not hard at all. I’d want him captured and sent to jail for the rest of his life, but anything more and I’m no better than he is. I have never had any desire for revenge in any form. It always seemed to me to be a useless emotion. ---
**Author:** ![nonacetone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonacetone/32/2819_2.png) [@nonacetone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nonacetone)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-murders-your-spouse-or-child-can-you-imagine-yourself-not-taking-vengeance/435668/13 "2008-01-31T04:11:17Z")
Without a doubt. I’d kill him. Then piss on his dead, broken body. I agree that revenge is rather useless, but it would sure make _me_ feel better. ---
**Author:** ![Cluricaun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/bb73d2/32.png) [@Cluricaun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cluricaun)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-murders-your-spouse-or-child-can-you-imagine-yourself-not-taking-vengeance/435668/14 "2008-01-31T04:44:55Z")
Killing is so final. Much better to keep finding the person in your same situation and making them live in terror for the rest of their miserable life. I’ll follow you every day, everywhere you go. In the end, you’ll kill yourself just to escape the fear and the torment and I’ll be there too. Don’t fuck with me. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![delphica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9a140/32.png) [@delphica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/delphica)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-murders-your-spouse-or-child-can-you-imagine-yourself-not-taking-vengeance/435668/15 "2008-01-31T04:54:08Z")
I don’t think so. I would want to pull over and YELL at him. I can’t get his attention if he’s dead. I could even imagine myself in a scenario where _I’m_ the one who gets slapped with a restraining order, after I keep ringing his doorbell and saying “I don’t think you’re hearing me – I need to tell you more about how awful it was to have Loved One taken from me, let me begin where I left off at #156, and you owe it to me to listen” and then once he slams the door in my face, going around to tell his neighbors or anyone else who will listen. I don’t think this is good or healthy behavior, mind you, only that feels more realistically likely to me, given my personality, than killing someone. ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-murders-your-spouse-or-child-can-you-imagine-yourself-not-taking-vengeance/435668/16 "2008-01-31T05:06:08Z")
About two and a half years ago, a couple of young guys I knew tangentially (they worked at a motorcycle shop where I was a frequent customer) were shot and killed by a mental patient. He also killed a city worker earlier that morning, and two cops later the same evening. The event affected me pretty deeply. At least as much so as when my Dad died, and more so than when my mom died (after a long decline due to Alzheimer’s). Not having ever had a child to lose, I can’t compare it to that. I’ve followed the case closely. There was never any doubt who the perpetrator was, or that he is insane. Originally the story was that he had “gone off his meds”. Months later it came out that his meds had been changed, he KNEW this was not working so sought treatment, and was escorted from a psychiatric hospital by security a few days before the killing spree. While I still sometimes fantasize about torturing the thieves who stole my car ~10 years ago, I really don’t have much interest in seeing this murderer punished beyond being kept where he will do no further harm, and that is pretty much assured. I don’t hate him at all…just feel pity for th sick bastard. When I think about the whole thing, I get sad but not angry. A couple of policemen I know seem to think he should be put to death, yet I’ve never heard either of them suggest that he might be faking his insanity…it is a given. I agree with them that this doesn’t excuse his actions, I think it 100% explains them. I’m certain that killing a mentally ill man won’t bring any of his victims back to life, and I also am pretty sure that it wouldn’t deter other would-be homicidal maniacs from acting. I also am pretty sure it wouldn’t make me feel any better. Here is a [google listing](http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=opera&rls=en&hs=vDm&q=john+hyde+albuquerque&btnG=Search)of articles about the case. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-murders-your-spouse-or-child-can-you-imagine-yourself-not-taking-vengeance/435668/17 "2008-01-31T05:06:56Z")
> [@](#): > > Would you be able to resist the urge to take vengeance? Of course I’d resist it. What good would that do? It’s not going to bring my wife back, and I’m not going to feel good about myself for having taken vengeance. Besides, I don’t think my wife would want me to become a murderer on her behalf. I know if I’m murdered, I wouldn’t want her to avenge my death. What about those of you who said no? If you were murdered, and your child, parent or spouse has a chance to take vengeance, would you want them to? ---
**Author:** ![ZebraShaSha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/eada6e/32.png) [@ZebraShaSha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZebraShaSha)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-murders-your-spouse-or-child-can-you-imagine-yourself-not-taking-vengeance/435668/18 "2008-01-31T05:10:13Z")
What’s interesting is that almost every time a subject was give in the above responses, most people chose to use a masculine form. Some gave a neutral gender and only one person outside of the OP acknowledged that the gender was theoretical. I’d say “I’d kill him” as well, but it’s interesting that murder is viewed as so masculine. (I realize most murders are men, but still.) ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-murders-your-spouse-or-child-can-you-imagine-yourself-not-taking-vengeance/435668/19 "2008-01-31T05:25:31Z")
Okay, you’ve basically described the thing I lie awake in bed at night worrying about. But no way would I kill another human being. This might be really hard to comprehend, but if I saw the person who murdered my husband on the side of the road with a broken ankle, I’d go help him or at least call an ambulance. I’m not saying I wouldn’t feel conflicted about it, but my instinct to care about people no matter what would take over. My husband would have wanted that anyways because like me, he doesn’t believe in revenge either. There are things people have done to me that might incite a murderous rage in a normal person, but really I just feel pity for them. I get pissed sometimes, but ultimately I have compassion. Just who I am. So no. No vengeance for me. ---
**Author:** ![brownsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ad7895/32.png) [@brownsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brownsfan)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2008, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-murders-your-spouse-or-child-can-you-imagine-yourself-not-taking-vengeance/435668/20 "2008-01-31T05:49:02Z")
[QUOTE=MLS] I’d waste him/her. Not a second thought, without an iota of remorse. [/QUOTE] I haven’t read the rest of the thread beyond this post (I will), but I agree with this 100%. Beware of me. You’d probably die slowly. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-murders-your-spouse-or-child-can-you-imagine-yourself-not-taking-vengeance/435668.md?page=2)