# Someone threatens to commit suicide. You egg them on. Can you be sued if the person commits suicide? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 12, 2012, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-threatens-to-commit-suicide-you-egg-them-on-can-you-be-sued-if-the-person-commits-suicide/618569 "2012-04-12T15:25:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-threatens-to-commit-suicide-you-egg-them-on-can-you-be-sued-if-the-person-commits-suicide/618569/21 "2012-04-12T20:48:10Z")
There’s a \*moral \*duty to call the police when someone threatens suicide. Whether a legal duty was breached, I cannot say for certain. Also, unless the eggers-on in question were mandated reporters, it’s hard to argue that they had a legal duty to even report the incident. I bet anything Reddit enacts a policy change after this incident, as they should. Pretty much every message board I’ve ever been a part of will contact the police if suicide is threatened. So Reddit may have some responsibility for failure to intervene, \*if \*one of their mods was aware of the situation and did nothing. It’d be relevant to know whether timely intervention would have changed the outcome of this situation. Did he make the post on a smartphone and then jump immediately, before even seeing the responses? Or was there a gap of a few hours, during which time intervention could have saved his life? Time will tell. IANAL, obviously. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2012, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-threatens-to-commit-suicide-you-egg-them-on-can-you-be-sued-if-the-person-commits-suicide/618569/22 "2012-04-12T20:57:34Z")
I’ve heard they’re going to subpeona Dr. John Gabriel as an expert witness, regarding his [sociological theories](http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19). ---
**Author:** ![PandaBear77](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@PandaBear77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PandaBear77)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-threatens-to-commit-suicide-you-egg-them-on-can-you-be-sued-if-the-person-commits-suicide/618569/23 "2012-04-13T02:01:45Z")
I certainly wouldn’t vote to convict if the victim’s sister tracked down those who egged on her brother and gave 'em some free dental work. I’m not saying she should DO it, mind you … [Chris Rock] … but I’d understand [/Chris Rock] ---
**Author:** ![SCSimmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e495f1/32.png) [@SCSimmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCSimmons)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-threatens-to-commit-suicide-you-egg-them-on-can-you-be-sued-if-the-person-commits-suicide/618569/24 "2012-04-13T02:10:35Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Guy says, “I want to kill myself,” and crowd chants, “Go ahead and do it!” > > I think you’d have a very tough time showing that the crowd’s actions were the proximate cause of the death. What if they double-dog-dared him? ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-threatens-to-commit-suicide-you-egg-them-on-can-you-be-sued-if-the-person-commits-suicide/618569/25 "2012-04-13T02:49:18Z")
This reminds me of our own erstwhile severe depressive poster, mookieblaylock. Did he ever threaten suicide before he got banned? If so, what did the mods here do? I remember that he threatened self-harm at one point… ---
**Author:** ![Namkcalb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c89c15/32.png) [@Namkcalb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Namkcalb)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-threatens-to-commit-suicide-you-egg-them-on-can-you-be-sued-if-the-person-commits-suicide/618569/26 "2012-04-13T10:05:17Z")
> [@PrettyVacant](#): > > It’s not a crowd though, it’s idenfiable individual voices - like this thread. The problem is a lot of things can provoke suicide if someone is sufficiently unwell. For example,[this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=647906) might be intepreted as encouraging those who care about the environment to kill themselves. I am a lot better now, but nine months ago I attempted suicide in part due to environmental guilt(fish to be precise). So of course, I found that topic rather concerning. The question is; where shall we draw the line? what debates would we censor just to reduce the suicide risk of a potential depressed lurker? ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-threatens-to-commit-suicide-you-egg-them-on-can-you-be-sued-if-the-person-commits-suicide/618569/27 "2012-04-13T14:48:22Z")
> [@Namkcalb](#): > > The problem is a lot of things can provoke suicide if someone is sufficiently unwell. > > For example,[this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=647906) might be intepreted as encouraging those who care about the environment to kill themselves. > > I am a lot better now, but nine months ago I attempted suicide in part due to environmental guilt(fish to be precise). So of course, I found that topic rather concerning. > > The question is; where shall we draw the line? what debates would we censor just to reduce the suicide risk of a potential depressed lurker? Meh, I think there’s a pretty clear difference between talking about overfishing with someone thats depressed about it and actively telling someone who says they’re going to kill themselves that they should do it. ---
**Author:** ![lawbuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@lawbuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawbuff)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-threatens-to-commit-suicide-you-egg-them-on-can-you-be-sued-if-the-person-commits-suicide/618569/28 "2012-04-13T16:23:50Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Over on Reddit there is detailing a story of a guy who posted on Reddit that he wanted to kill himself. Apparently some Redditors egged him on (not all did) and the man jumped from a hotel window killing himself some short time later. > > The family of the man has decided to bring a wrongful death lawsuit against the Redditors and some others. > > The debate here is not whether the posters who egged him on were despicable (they were) but whether Reddit should provide the names and whether those people should be held accountable in a civil court for their actions? I don’t know if you remember the Jenny Jones talk show tragic case, but a Wrongful Death suit was filed, here is the opinion, the MI SC declined review. I won’t brief the details, you can read it. Short answer, it depends on the state and the exact conduct of the aggressor’s I would imagine. It discusses _Causation_, as Bricker points out, and the doctrine of _Forseeability_, etc. [http://coa.courts.mi.gov/documents/OPINIONS/FINAL/COA/20021022\_C226645\_64\_233O.226645.OPN.COA.PDF](http://coa.courts.mi.gov/documents/OPINIONS/FINAL/COA/20021022_C226645_64_233O.226645.OPN.COA.PDF) ---
**Author:** ![lawbuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/13edae/32.png) [@lawbuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawbuff)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-threatens-to-commit-suicide-you-egg-them-on-can-you-be-sued-if-the-person-commits-suicide/618569/29 "2012-04-13T16:30:15Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > It has been said that you can sue anyone for anything. Winning the suit is another matter. As Kimmy points out though, a meritless claim will not only be subject to a dismissal, but the Attorney filing one may get sanctioned and the Plaintiff may be counter sued for Abuse of Process. Those deemed vexatious litigators need permission to go forward even before the defendant is served. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-threatens-to-commit-suicide-you-egg-them-on-can-you-be-sued-if-the-person-commits-suicide/618569/30 "2012-04-13T20:45:46Z")
> [@lawbuff](#): > > Those deemed vexatious litigators need permission to go forward even before the defendant is served. As I understand it (or misunderstand it), that’s a club that judges don’t like to take out of their bag. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-threatens-to-commit-suicide-you-egg-them-on-can-you-be-sued-if-the-person-commits-suicide/618569/31 "2012-04-13T21:57:29Z")
I suppose you’d be liable, if the threatened method of suicide was to eat eggs despite a lethal allergy. ---
**Author:** ![Randvek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a6a055/32.png) [@Randvek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randvek)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-threatens-to-commit-suicide-you-egg-them-on-can-you-be-sued-if-the-person-commits-suicide/618569/32 "2012-04-14T00:57:09Z")
> [@lawbuff](#): > > Short answer, it depends on the state and the exact conduct of the aggressor’s I would imagine. My off-the-cuff impression (torts is _not_ my specialty), I would imagine that it would also depend a great deal on whether the applicable law recognizes contributory negligence or not. But I haven’t dealt with torts since the bar exam. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-threatens-to-commit-suicide-you-egg-them-on-can-you-be-sued-if-the-person-commits-suicide/618569/33 "2012-04-14T21:56:41Z")
Would any of this tie in with a ‘Right-to-Die’ scenario, or is there still no legal right to suicide? I’m not up to date on any of that. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-threatens-to-commit-suicide-you-egg-them-on-can-you-be-sued-if-the-person-commits-suicide/618569/34 "2012-04-14T23:08:52Z")
In England and Wales, suicide was a [crime](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_Act_1961) until 1961, so you’d have been participating in a crime. > [@Wiki](#): > > assisting a suicide in Scotland can in some circumstances constitute murder or culpable homicide. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-threatens-to-commit-suicide-you-egg-them-on-can-you-be-sued-if-the-person-commits-suicide/618569/35 "2012-04-15T14:19:37Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > Ah, you got as far as proximate cause? As I recall from old torts class, the elements of negligence (and wrongful death is a species of negligence) are: > > [ol] > [li]Duty of care to the plaintiff[/li][li]Breach of that duty[/li][li]Actual causation (“but for” causation; but for the negligence, the harm would not have occurred)[/li][li]Proximate causation (was the negligence sufficiently close in causation to the harm or was it more like the [death of a Cretaceous butterfly causing the election of a 21st century facsistic president](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Sound_of_Thunder))[/li][li]Damages[/li][/ol] > > And that the earlier in the sequence you can nip the claim in the bud, the better. > > I would argue that the Redditors had no duty to the now-deceased; it would be untenable to propose we have a duty to strangers reading our posts on the internet. Do I have a duty to anyone who could look this page up on the internet, even if they never even join the thread? Preposterous! > > Failing that, if it were held that their was the duty of reasonable care while performing any acts that could foreseeably harm others (which is the baseline duty of care we are all said to owe others), I would argue it was not breached here. I would argue that you have no duty of reasonable care to the suicidee if you sit by and silently watch. However, if you commit any affirmative act, you have a duty to anyone whom your act may effect. So, I would say that there is a duty and breach here. As for proximate cause, an argument could be made that the taunts were the final causation of the suicide. He really wasn’t going to do it, but the taunts were the act that caused the death. As for the jumping as a supervening cause or comparative negligence, I would argue that a person who is contemplating suicide is not in a lucid state of mind and is incapable of negligence. ---
**Author:** ![cynyc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@cynyc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cynyc)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2012, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-threatens-to-commit-suicide-you-egg-them-on-can-you-be-sued-if-the-person-commits-suicide/618569/36 "2012-04-21T20:02:03Z")
OT, but still… I was once dispatched to an elementary school as part of a crisis management team. We’re talking little kids. During recess they saw a man standing on the edge of a roof. Maybe 6 stories. Some of them started yelling, “Jump! Jump!” He did. He died. It was awful. I’ve never been so _farmisht_. What do I tell a classroom of 3rd graders? (And I don’t do befuddled often, if ever.) What the hell was I going to tell these kids? It was a one shot deal. The best I could do was tell them that I knew “for a fact” that they did not make him jump. Ack. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someone-threatens-to-commit-suicide-you-egg-them-on-can-you-be-sued-if-the-person-commits-suicide/618569.md?page=1)