# Someone's going to drive a race car on the ceiling. REALLY! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 11, 2023, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someones-going-to-drive-a-race-car-on-the-ceiling-really/991412 "2023-10-11T18:48:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2023, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someones-going-to-drive-a-race-car-on-the-ceiling-really/991412/41 "2023-10-16T22:41:20Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Couldn’t the same be said of any racecar brakes system? Sure, but there was a long history of automobile brakes; people knew how to build them to a reasonable degree of reliability. The era of moving wings was before my time, but I gather they were somewhat prone to failure; much more so than brakes. The wing on the Chaparral (and some of the early ones in F!, I think) were attached directly to the wheel hub mechanism. They pressed the wheels against the track without compressing the car’s suspension. That must have meant some kind of flexible attachment, and lots of movement as the suspension went up and down, and changing loads as the wing changed its angle. There must have been lots of ways for that to fail. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2023, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someones-going-to-drive-a-race-car-on-the-ceiling-really/991412/42 "2023-10-16T22:43:41Z")
> [@Retzbu\_Tox](#): > > As I read the posts in this thread, my brain keeps yelling _ **upforce** _ every time someone mentions downforce. For the moment, comparing it to cars with downforce is the best analogy we have. And rather than “upforce”, you might call it “lift”. ---
**Author:** ![Retzbu\_Tox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/retzbu_tox/32/11829_2.png) [@Retzbu\_Tox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Retzbu_Tox)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2023, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someones-going-to-drive-a-race-car-on-the-ceiling-really/991412/43 "2023-10-16T23:06:32Z")
I’m not trying to correct anyone into using the term _ **upforce** _, I’m saying my brain thinks its funny. Hence the 😁 ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2023, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someones-going-to-drive-a-race-car-on-the-ceiling-really/991412/44 "2023-10-17T00:47:31Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > We’re all using a car-based coordinate system. This. It’s the only engineering-sensible way to do it. Those are also track-centric coordinates whether upright, banked, or inverted. Or at least car- and track-centric systems are the same until something goes badly wrong with the experiment. It’s only upforce in Earth-centric coordinates, the least useful of the three. Whenever coordinate transforms come up, I always think of this bit of science: > **[Centrifugal Force](https://xkcd.com/123/)** > > You spin me right round, baby, right round, in a manner depriving me of an inertial reference frame. Baby. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2023, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someones-going-to-drive-a-race-car-on-the-ceiling-really/991412/45 "2023-10-24T18:00:16Z")
The next video from Project Inversion. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/Xh0WkHY25KY/maxresdefault.jpg "How We Designed the Car I'll DRIVE UPSIDE DOWN") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh0WkHY25KY) ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2023, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someones-going-to-drive-a-race-car-on-the-ceiling-really/991412/46 "2023-11-17T18:50:25Z")
Here’s the latest video, on the design of the tunnel. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/wVvlL-1DTWY/maxresdefault.jpg "Designing the Tunnel for Driving a Formula Car UPSIDE DOWN") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVvlL-1DTWY) ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2023, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someones-going-to-drive-a-race-car-on-the-ceiling-really/991412/47 "2023-12-18T18:55:01Z")
New video about the engine. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/buIMkjHwFPQ/maxresdefault.jpg "Why F1 Engines Won’t Work Upside Down (for our stunt)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buIMkjHwFPQ) ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someones-going-to-drive-a-race-car-on-the-ceiling-really/991412/48 "2023-12-31T14:38:44Z")
New video, with the overall price tag. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/vwxP6HXkKIY/maxresdefault.jpg "Why It Costs £14,000,000 to Drive a Formula Car Upside Down") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwxP6HXkKIY) ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someones-going-to-drive-a-race-car-on-the-ceiling-really/991412/49 "2023-12-31T15:51:47Z")
They’re gonna need to sell a lot of tickets, merch, and page views to cover that nut. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someones-going-to-drive-a-race-car-on-the-ceiling-really/991412/50 "2023-12-31T16:23:46Z")
They’re looking for sponsorship, obviously. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someones-going-to-drive-a-race-car-on-the-ceiling-really/991412/51 "2023-12-31T16:54:43Z")
True. But that’s only profitable to the sponsor if this makes a big enough splash. Paying for eyeballs that don’t show up is a losing game. For sure in all manner of advertising, including sponsorships, it’s darn hard to clearly attribute specific sales results to specific advertising efforts. Profitability analysis is as much voodoo as it is accounting. IMO, IANA expert. This one just seems especially a far-fetched long shot to me. I have no doubt the team will succeed at flying the car. What’s far fetched is that the economic returns all around the effort will make it a profitable venture for team and sponsors. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someones-going-to-drive-a-race-car-on-the-ceiling-really/991412/52 "2023-12-31T16:58:30Z")
I’m sure that at least some of the sponsors are at least partially motivated by the “oh, cool” factor. And did anyone else see what was really wrong with the design, as shown in the splash still of that video? ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2023, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someones-going-to-drive-a-race-car-on-the-ceiling-really/991412/53 "2023-12-31T17:45:56Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I’m sure that at least some of the sponsors are at least partially motivated by the “oh, cool” factor. Red Bull in particular have sponsored lots of extreme sports events, stunts, and other activities. Although I have no inside information, I would be stunned if RB wasn’t his number one sponsor goal. > [@Chronos](#): > > And did anyone else see what was really wrong with the design, as shown in the splash still of that video? Didn’t you see the bit about the parachute after he flies off the end of the track? ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2024, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someones-going-to-drive-a-race-car-on-the-ceiling-really/991412/54 "2024-12-06T17:28:21Z")
And here’s the latest update: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/cjJr2BRjQmM/maxresdefault.jpg "Driving a Formula Car Upside Down (UPDATE)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjJr2BRjQmM) The £14 million price tag for the track was more than they were able to persuade sponsors to cover. But as Scott explains in this video, the engineering firm they went to for that estimate was a major top-level company whose focus wasn’t necessarily making it as cheaply as possible. So after trying unsuccessfully for almost a year to raise that sum, they’ve gone to a smaller engineering group who think it can be built for only £3 million. And now he goes back to potential sponsors. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/someones-going-to-drive-a-race-car-on-the-ceiling-really/991412.md?page=2)