Something about the master- Heinlein, Robinson, Niven, et al.

Thanks for the compliment, but no. I’m a gym teacher. See? Some of us DO read! :slight_smile:

I wanted to mention that I agree with the other posters who would include “The Moon is a Harsh Mistress” on my list of books for new RAH readers. Can’t imagine how I left that one off…

I’m going to recommend Harry Turtledove and SM Stirling. Not exactly in the same league as Bujold and such, but I always enjoy their new books…and Turtledove comes out with 2 or 3 books a year!

Both authors are mostly alternate history/military-political writers, although with different slants.

I’m not a big Stirling fan (but I liked his Islands in the Sea of Time stuff.) Did you know that Stirling, using the ‘handle’ Joat Simeon is one of the most prolific posters on the soc.history.what-if newsgroup? (Hint: if you decide to post there, read the FAQ first and lurk for a while. It’s not a very…forgiving newsgroup.)

Turtledove, on the other hand, rocks. I liked his World War stuff, and Guns of the South was great, but my two favorites of his weren’t big successes comercially <sigh>
The Case of the Toxic Spell Dump is about an inspector for the E.P.A. (Environmental Perfection Agency) in a world where magic works. (The term “Spell checker” has a whole 'nother meaning!)

The other book was co-written with Judith Tarr: Household Gods is about a modern woman who ends up in Rome, about 200 AD (I think…). Anyway, I’ve never seen a better portrayal of what everyday Roman life was like for the average person.

Fenris

Theodore Sturgeon – I just started reading him so I’m not familiar with all his work, or the man himself. He might have been a misanthropic curmudgeon in real life, for all I know, but his stories show a great love for flawed humanity, without being sentimental or smarmy.

And he takes the most roundabout way to make a point, and then I’m still not sure if I got it, but even if I didn’t, there was lots to think about.

Favorite story so far is “The Touch of Your Hand” from the More Than Strange collection. I think it was about conformity and individualism.

I loved this part: “His hair reached for an awed little twist of wind, come miles to see this place. The wind escaped and ran away down the hill.”

Next favorite story is from the “Case and the Dreamer” collection, “If All Men Were Brothers, Would You Let One Marry Your Sister?” It’s about the one flaw in an otherwise perfect world. But is it really a flaw? (Describing the flaw would be a spoiler.)

Hello, Disclaimer : bit drunk.
Ursula K. LeGuin - The Earthsea Trilogy. BAWWWL!!! Beautiful, timeless, deep, tragic, wonderful. Can’t adequately summarise it. If you love SF&F, this is IMO unmissable.
Theodore Sturgeon Pretty much anything. What a genius. I LOVE ‘To Here and the Easel’. Sturgeon is the originator of ‘Sturgeon’s Law’, as follows, (SF Convention debate that TS was chairing) :
Speaker : "Mr. Chairman, 90% of Science Fiction is CRAP.
Chairman(TS) : Mr Speaker, 90% of everything is crap.
I love you all :slight_smile: (Hi Opal!)

YWalker said:

Heinlein did that in The Number Of The Beastand The Cat Who Walks Through Wallstoo. I’ve always thought he knew he didn’t have a lot of time left, and that To Sail Beyond the Sunsetwas meant to be his farewell.

Last line of To Sail Beyond the Sunset:

I find that very haunting.

Besides Heinlein, my favorites would be the Larry Niven/Jerry Pournelle collaborations (some of which also include Steven Barnes). In particular, I think Lucifer’s Hammeris the best end-of-civilization story around (though it’s a bit dated now–always a problem in writing about the near future).

Lot sof good stuff has been said, Heilein, Robinson, Niven, good people all.

Let me re-iterate a few small points.

Vinge A Fire Upon the Deep sort of mentioned before, but its a great, great book. Detailed, frightening, well done on many levels. I actually re-read this one time after time after time. May do so again tonight.

and my favorite Card for those of us who like myths and strong women please hunt down Wyrms. I lost my copy and will buy a new one the next time I see the thing in a store. I love that book. I love anything he writes, but that still is my favorite. (The short story “Homeless in Hell” is a delight too)

I’m a little surprised that no one has tossed Bradbury out there yet. He’s distinctly a different style than those mentioned, but I wouldn’t accept any list of “masters” that left him off.

And, as long as I’ve got a gathering of similar minds…any advice on Dan Simmons? I loved Hyperion, but thought the series tailed off some. I’ve read a collection of his short stories (Tears from Stones, or somesuch). Are his horror stories worthwhile?

-ellis

All of the suggestions here- in the old days I would have blown through a list like this in a few days, but I don’t read anything like I used to. So I’ve got material for a llong time coming…Thanks you all.
And thanks for the reminders too- again, like old friends-
Zenna Henderson, ‘The People’- I always thought these books were similar to Robinsons style, although he came after Henderson- liked them lots

Ray Bradbury- How could I forget? Some of his best stories though, weren’t sci-fi at all.

Ursula K.- I rarely read her- I had a hard time following her- but there are one or two that I was able to follow and she is right fine.

Card- of course.
I have read some newer stuff that is particularly fine, both hard and soft and in-between, but I don’t pay attention to authors like I used to…sigh
As a very slight hijack- if you haven’t read Jim Dodge’s ‘Fup’, I would unstintingly recommend it. It’s a short read- 30-45 minutes, and it literally has me howling one minute, eyes leaking the next, and that’s after several reads.
But it’s not sci-fi. I jsut mention it because I get a strong impression that many of you here would really, really enjoy it. As was stated up above there somewhere, if you haven’t and do, I very much envy you for reading it the first time. And anything by Tom Robbins- Scylla’s better pieces remind me of him.
[/hijack]

As for Robinson being too soft on his people- well thanks for ruining it for me :wink: - the happy endings were a large part of why I liked him so much- left with a warm feeling…but you’re right- I always did feel a little like it was wrong and I was screwing the pooch for feeling soo good about it…

ellis555 That’d be “Prayers From Broken Stones”, I think. Simmons’ horror is just as good as his SF.

“Summer of Night” is a favorite of many horror fans but “Song of Kali” was tighter, more intense.

“Carrion Comfort” is distressing. Not a bad thing, if you’re describing horror, but I like mine with a little bit of empathy and hope, and Carrion was just too – horrific, I guess.

Having said that, I can’t figure out why I liked Kali but am afraid to even pull Carrion off the shelf. They were both pretty strong.

There’s going to be a re-issue of Bradbury’s “Dark Carnival”. I think it’s due out in May, from Barry Hoffman at Gauntlet Press.

Auntie Pam Sturgeon is fantastic, and if you like his short stories, you’ll be happy to hear that all of his short stories are being reprinted in order! They’re up to volume 6 I believe. I got the first one on a whim and have been devouring them since. The first in the series is The Ultimate Egoist. They’re beautifully put together as well, with historical notes, etc.

And you just made my day with your comment about Dark Carnival!! The cheapest I’ve ever seen it is around $200 and I’ve wanted a copy for years. I’ll keep my eyes open. Thanks!

ellis555: For some reason, Bradbury doesn’t seem to on many SF-F fans short lists until someone mentions him, then suddenly everyone says “Yeah! How could I have forgotten!” (I don’t know why). Let me add to the chorus “Yeah! How could I have forgotten him!” ;). R is for Rocket, S is for Space and The Illustrated Man would easily be among my favorite SF-F books.

inor

Regarding this comment:

For me, it’s not the happy endings: I prefer happy endings as a rule. It’s the perfect endings where any harm or pain the character’s suffered is erased.

I was thinking about this last night and came up with another example, in addition to Jake. Think about Telempath. Whatshisname…the hero…has murdered his father for reasons entirely logical and appropriate. But rather than let the chararcter hurt, deal with it and grow, Robinson waves a magic wand and >poof<! Dad’s back! Like I said: all Robinson needs to do is put just a pinch of George R.R. Martin’s character abuse in his stories and he’d be perfect (but just a touch. What Martin puts his characters through…).

And Ursula K. LeGuin: My favorite of her books is The Dispossessed. Warm, character driven story, and to her everlasting credit, she’s a skilled enough writer to portray a political philosophy I abhor in a mostly positive light, and still make me love the story. I can’t think of many other authors able to pull that one off!

I’m going used book hunting tomorrow (and I’m placing an order with Amazon later in the week: When I was looking up the name of the first Sturgeon volume for Auntie Pam, I found out that Volume 7 was out!) and one way or the other, I’ll get Fup. What’s it about?

Fenris

Lots of old friends in this thread - I think Have Spacesuit, Will Travel is responsible for my decision to go to MIT - I probably never would have thought of it without that.

The insight about the SDMB and Callahan’s Place is striking - I too am smacking myself in the forehead and asking why I never thought of that. Anyone know Spider or see him at cons? Someone should send him our URL.

My favorite author not listed yet is undoubtedly Connie Willis. I’ve probably read The Doomsday Book ten times and it still makes me cry. Bellwether is one of the funniest things I’ve read since I ran out of Jane Austen. As a ballroom dancer, Remake still haunts me. And Lincoln’s Dreams is a tiny, brilliant gem.

Thanks for the Simmons tip AuntiePam. I think I’ll go snag Song of Kali.

Another “surprised it hasn’t been mentioned yet” - Asimov.

And for single short, I’d say “Flowers for Algernon” (Daniel Keyes) is the most moving.

-ellis

The Stars My Destination is in my opinion the greatest sc-fi book ever written.

#2 would have to be The Forever War Joe Haldeman’s answer to Starship Troopers.

Heinlein and Niven are great as well, especially Footfall.

I love John Varley, and Gordon R. Dickson.

I’m reading all this and remembering favorites… and everyone keeps talking about this Spider Robinson fella, so I picked up a few this afternoon. I suspect I will be on a binge of reading and it’s all your fault!

Heinlein is a favorite… he has the appropriate respect for redheads! I can’t pick a favorite, but I do love Maureen :slight_smile: Stranger was the first one I read (how’s that for jumping in head first!) but The Moon is a Harsh Mistress remains my favorite.

No one mentioned Zelazny? He’s another one I can read over and over…

ENugent - Synchronicity abounds. Just got Doomsday Book in the mail yesterday. Well, two copies actually. One of them was so cheap ($10 for a hardcover first), I didn’t believe it was going to happen, so I ended up buying it from two different places. I’ll look for her other stuff too.

ellis555 - no contest on “Flowers for Algernon” being the most moving story, IMHO.

Fenris - keeping your eyes open won’t be enough. Go to the website and get on the Dark Carnival mailing list – http://www.gauntletpress.com – no word yet on the price. Thanks for the tip on the Sturgeon reprints – I’ve just about exhausted the on-line sources for used copies.

This is a great thread – not just names and titles, but nice insights too. :slight_smile: Good job, inor!

Auntie Pam- thanks, but I can’t take credit- that goes to Fenris and Polycarp

Hear hear on ‘Flowers…’- I never thought of it as sci-fi- I read it when I was young, before I had really been exposed to the genre, but you both are right.

Fenris- about ‘Fup’- I don’t want to give anything away- It involves a huge friendly guy named ‘Tiny’ who builds fences obsessively; his grandaddy Jake, the immortal; wikkid, wikkid home brew; a huge wild boar who is the bane of fences and may or may not be the reincarnation of Jake’s Indian friend, Johnny Seven Moons; a phrase I loved so much I once named two of my dogs ‘Grunt’ and ‘Point’; poker; absolute beauty (for how it is written), and of course, a magical duck named Fup.
It’s one of those books you buy over and over again 'cause you’ve lent it out over and over again. This last xmas, I bought Amazon out, but it was cheap. And so if ya can’t find it, mail me w/your address, I’ll send you a copy.
Jake is another character I try to be a little like…(here’s another possible IMHO thread- Is it wrong to try to incorporate eclectic bits of fictional characters you really like/admire into your own RL persona, and if you do this, characters and traits, please…)

::slapping forehead:: Zelazny, Sturgeon, Dickson, Asimov…

oooooohh, youguys!

I think the SF novel I enjoyed most overall was Edgar Pangbourn’s [d]Davy**. Astonishingly good, with a very moving ending.

Second choice would be Replay by Ken Grimwood.

Third would probably Delany’s Dhalgren, or The Anubis Gates by Tim Powers.

N.B. I don’t make a hard and fast border between SF and fantasy.

Here are my 20 favorite science fiction novels (or, anyway, writings that are longer than 25,000 words)

  1. Olaf Stapledon First and Last Men
  2. Philip Jose Farmer The Riverworld Series
  3. Frank Herbert Dune (and maybe its sequels)
  4. Walter Miller A Canticle for Leibowitz
  5. Alfred Bester The Stars My Destination
  6. Ursula K. LeGuin The Left Hand of Darkness
  7. H. G. Wells The Time Machine
  8. Philip K. Dick The Man in the High Castle
  9. Frederik Pohl and C. M. Kornbluth The Space Merchants
  10. Theodore Sturgeon More than Human
  11. Roger Zelazny Lord of Light
  12. Arthur C. Clarke Against the Fall of Night
  13. Stanislaw Lem Solaris
  14. Ken Grimwood Replay
  15. Joe Haldeman The Forever War
  16. Michael Frayn The Tin Men
  17. Larry Niven Ringworld
  18. Robert Heinlein Stranger in a Strange Land
  19. Clifford Simak City
  20. Isaac Asimov The End of Eternity

<blink>

Who? I’ve either read or heard of every other author/book (just got my hands on several Lem, for example, but haven’t read 'em yet) on your list, but this one stumped me…and given our tastes, I’m probably going to like this one. Some info please?

Fenris