# Something I don't understand about the Vegas shooting **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 3, 2017, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-dont-understand-about-the-vegas-shooting/797894 "2017-10-03T20:07:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-dont-understand-about-the-vegas-shooting/797894/41 "2017-10-05T02:05:13Z")
> [@Daylate](#): > > Another thing that I don’t understand about this thing. I understand that the shooter had nineteen (19) rifles in his room, along with quite a few other devices that could be used in a destructive manner. Well, it seems to me that hauling that many rifles up to a room is not exactly an invisible operation. He would have to get them out of his car, enter and cross the hotel lobby, get in the elevator, and exit finally into his room. Including the ammunition (he had lots) and the tripods, this is a multi-trip operation. How in the world did he do this without somebody - staff or otherwise - noticing, and taking some kind of action? When I was fully kitted out for feature film work, my Steadicam system took up 11 Pelican cases on a very large Magliner cart. There is no reason at all to think that that many weapons, taken apart, would draw notice. I don’t know shit about weapons, but if you can take the barrel off or the lower part where the magazine goes, and change the physical profile, you can stuff a LOT of those things into a [Pelican 1650 case](http://www.pelicancasesforless.com/p-11439-pelican-1650-case.aspx?utm_source=Adwords&utm_medium=PPC&utm_term=1650Case&utm_campaign=1650Case&gclid=CILs8pGy2NYCFdmPswodf_sJdg). Just saying. Oh- and I agree actually with the posters up there who say that using glass breaking sensors is a fool’s errand. To what end, indeed. Perhaps I’m 100% off on that one !!! ---
**Author:** ![whc.03grady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a6a055/32.png) [@whc.03grady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whc.03grady)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-dont-understand-about-the-vegas-shooting/797894/42 "2017-10-05T02:10:09Z")
Okay, all you “what I don’t get about it…” people, just come out and say it: you think it was a false flag. ---
**Author:** ![andrewm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c57346/32.png) [@andrewm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andrewm)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-dont-understand-about-the-vegas-shooting/797894/43 "2017-10-05T02:16:35Z")
> [@ZonexandScout](#): > > First, purchasing, installing, wiring, and maintaining ANY alarm or security devices is not trivial. As I understand it, there are quite a few rooms (3000+, I think?) at the MB. > > Second, the glass break detectors would not be wired to the smoke detectors, even if the wiring could be easily accomplished. The hotel would want to be able to distinguish between smoke detection and glass breakage. Some addressable FA systems would allow this, but, again, it’s non-trivial. > > Third, depending upon the technology used (audio, piezo, vibration, dual-technology, etc.), defeating a glass break detector is rather simple if you are in the “protected” area. > > I just don’t believe it to be a very practical solution to the problem(s). But maybe somebody else does. I would invite guests to look specifically for hotels that advertise glass-break detectors in every room above a certain level and see how well that goes. There is probably also the annoyance/expense of dealing with false alarms every time somebody drops and breaks a room-service glass or dish, which probably happens pretty often in a 3000+ room facility. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-dont-understand-about-the-vegas-shooting/797894/44 "2017-10-05T04:11:17Z")
> [@whc.03grady](#): > > Okay, all you “what I don’t get about it…” people, just come out and say it: you think it was a false flag. **Moderator Note** I don’t think remarks like this are useful in General Questions. If you want to make political accusations against other posters, do it in the Pit. No warning issued, but stick to factual responses in this forum. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-dont-understand-about-the-vegas-shooting/797894/45 "2017-10-05T17:26:00Z")
> [@ZonexandScout](#): > > I just don’t believe it to be a very practical solution to the problem(s). It doesn’t even seem like a problem that is crying out for a solution. High-rise windows don’t break that often, and if they do, a staff response need not be as urgent as if it were a fire alarm; no immediate evacuation or attention is required. If someone fell out of the broken window, then it already happened, and there’s nothing the staff can do for them. Everyone else in the room knows to stay away from the edge, and someone will call the front desk in fairly short order. If the intent is to have a detection system to facilitate a timely response to an active shooter, that ain’t gonna happen. Imagine such a system gets implemented, and the front desk receives a “broken window” alarm from room XXX. Their first response will not be to call in the SWAT team; they’ll send a lone staff member up to the room to see what’s going on, since it’s probably NOT an active shooter. By the time the staff member reaches the room, a thousand people on the ground will have already called 911 and told the police that there’s a shooter in building X. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-dont-understand-about-the-vegas-shooting/797894/46 "2017-10-05T17:55:52Z")
So to summarize - no logical need for breaking glass sensor - if it’s something like suicide, it does not do anything; plus, there’s a very simple system - go out and look. (I saw a picture from afterward, the large missing windows were very obvious.) The fellow allegedly arrived with something like 10 or more bags 3 days earlier. Hotels have the equipment to handle this sort of thing. Presumably he packed things so nothing went “clank” or “jungle” to the point where staff would go “Ola! That sounds like a bunch of firearms!” (My question is, if a patron is moving in with luggage that seems to be metal and weighs a lot would they wonder if it’s film-making equipment? Do they have a policy on shooting certain types of movies in the rooms?) I always wonder about these Hollywood shows, the cops bang on the door while standing to one side… the drywall construction beside the door provides no more protection than the door itself. Why wouldn’t a perp fire 1-2-3 at the door and each side of it? (But then in Hollywood, a cloth sofa or a thin particleboard table also provides adequate cover from modern firearms.) ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2017, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-dont-understand-about-the-vegas-shooting/797894/47 "2017-10-05T18:11:25Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > I always wonder about these Hollywood shows, the cops bang on the door while standing to one side… the drywall construction beside the door provides no more protection than the door itself. Why wouldn’t a perp fire 1-2-3 at the door and each side of it? If your perp is knowledgeable about the relative weakness of stud walls and has thought that far ahead, then yes, he might opt to shoot right through walls. I think that’s a pretty rare situation, though, and that most of the time a siege situation is an improvised thing, with the perp having never considered whether it’s possible to fire right through a wall. ---
**Author:** ![jimmyz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e68b1a/32.png) [@jimmyz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimmyz)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2018, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-dont-understand-about-the-vegas-shooting/797894/48 "2018-03-06T14:20:30Z")
> [@andrewm](#): > > There is probably also the annoyance/expense of dealing with false alarms every time somebody drops and breaks a room-service glass or dish, which probably happens pretty often in a 3000+ room facility. All the slot machines are networked and have tamper alerts, why not the rooms? I ran a facility with half that many individual both smoke and motion/glass break detectors, and both are numbered and floors should be segmented. A smoke alarm in your home may be wired to just power, a smoke detector in a large casino will be networked back to the fire panels, and the GB/Motion sensors can distinguish between dropping a simple glass or shattering a window or full tray of say champagne glasses. And for liability the motion sensors can also be used should a guest who lost $1000 try to blame it on the maid and not the craps table, just like the room keys, those door keys are just like employee programmable cards that track the user through the building where I work as they go to different divisions of the facility. I would expect for liability issues the hotels have all that in place. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2018, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-dont-understand-about-the-vegas-shooting/797894/49 "2018-03-06T15:00:16Z")
Because rooms are not slot machines? I’m not sure what similarities you’re seeing between the two, that the fact that one are networked means the other should be, too. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2018, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-dont-understand-about-the-vegas-shooting/797894/50 "2018-03-06T16:13:47Z")
> [@Bones\_Daley](#): > > Is it, or is it not the case, that the windows in all Las Vegas hotels are unable to be opened? I believe this is to prevent suicide attempts. > > I am further given to understand that all these windows have sensors, and that as soon as one is broken, hotel security are instantly aware of exactly which room the breakage has occurred in. > > What the media are reporting is that the “smoke sensors” were the means by which the room was pinpointed, which obviously would delay the detection quite significantly. > > No doubt the subsequent inquiry will reveal more details. Pfft. That? That’s nothing. They actually knew about the shooting relatively quickly. My questions are: Why have they not shown a SINGLE FRAME of security footage in the days leading up to the shooting? Why did it it take an hour and 5 minutes from the last shot fired (Paddock committing suicide) for the cops to enter the room? What happened to the missing hard drive? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2018, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-dont-understand-about-the-vegas-shooting/797894/51 "2018-03-06T16:15:09Z")
I like this line of argument. “Our cell phones are all networked. Who are you to say that our pants aren’t all networked, too? The technology exists, man!” ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2018, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-dont-understand-about-the-vegas-shooting/797894/52 "2018-03-06T16:30:23Z")
> [@jimmyz](#): > > All the slot machines are networked and have tamper alerts, why not the rooms? If the system you described were free to install and had no ongoing maintenance costs, the decision would be pretty easy. But that’s not the case. ---
**Author:** ![Surreal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@Surreal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surreal)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2018, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-dont-understand-about-the-vegas-shooting/797894/53 "2018-03-06T16:33:00Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > My questions are: Why have they not shown a SINGLE FRAME of security footage in the days leading up to the shooting? Why did it it take an hour and 5 minutes from the last shot fired (Paddock committing suicide) for the cops to enter the room? What happened to the missing hard drive? My question is why haven’t they determined a motive after all of these months of investigation? ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2018, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-dont-understand-about-the-vegas-shooting/797894/54 "2018-03-06T16:59:19Z")
> [@Surreal](#): > > My question is why haven’t they determined a motive after all of these months of investigation? Because he never left a note. I suspect the missing hard drive might have some clues though. I am satisfied that a “guy down on his luck decided to hurt Mandalay Bay” as sufficient motive. If it was corroborated by something, which it isn’t. The thing that bugs me is, even the LV sheriff thought at one point that there was more than one person involved. A lot of witnesses also attest to this. Shots coming from different directions. However, this could be EASILY disproven or at least greatly minimized by surveillance footage, which they won’t show. It’s very suspicious. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2018, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-dont-understand-about-the-vegas-shooting/797894/55 "2018-03-06T17:40:35Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Because rooms are not slot machines? I’m not sure what similarities you’re seeing between the two, that the fact that one are networked means the other should be, too. Smoke detectors are for sure networked. I install them regularly. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2018, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-dont-understand-about-the-vegas-shooting/797894/56 "2018-03-06T17:59:38Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > The thing that bugs me is, even the LV sheriff thought at one point that there was more than one person involved. A lot of witnesses also attest to this. Shots coming from different directions. However, this could be EASILY disproven or at least greatly minimized by surveillance footage, which they won’t show. It’s very suspicious. I have no doubt the echoes of Paddock’s shots were bouncing off of other buildings in the area, making it _sound_ like shots were coming from multiple directions. I think the biggest arguments against any shots originating from elsewhere are: - the lack of anyone somewhere else reporting gunfire originating near them. If shots were also coming from e.g. Excalibur or Tropicana, someone at one of those places would have reported loud gun discharges from their vicinity. - the lack of any shell casings recovered from anywhere other than Paddock’s vicinity. This would require scrupulous cleanup by a perp, unless they only fired a couple of shots. > **[FACT CHECK: Did a Second Gunman Shoot From the Fourth Floor of the Mandalay...](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/second-gunman-shoot-fourth-floor-mandalay-bay/)** > > Conspiracy theorists spread false information that a second person targeted a country music concert crowd on the Las Vegas Strip during a deadly mass shooting that left scores dead. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2018, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-dont-understand-about-the-vegas-shooting/797894/57 "2018-03-06T18:33:45Z")
Why would you give any credence to the witnesses saying where the shots were coming from? How could they even tell? It’s not like he was firing tracers. And what makes you think they haven’t shown any security camera footage? I imagine that that was one of the first things the police looked at. Unless you mean, why haven’t they shown it to you, personally, but why would they do that, if you’re not a police investigator? Furthermore, why do _you_ think they wouldn’t have done those things? Do you think that the hotel management was in on it, or something? How would that make any sense? It’s not profitable to have mass shootings. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2018, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-dont-understand-about-the-vegas-shooting/797894/58 "2018-03-06T19:11:52Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Furthermore, why do _you_ think they wouldn’t have done those things? Do you think that the hotel management was in on it, or something? How would that make any sense? It’s not profitable to have mass shootings. I don’t know that there weren’t multiple people involved with the shooting (not necessarily shooters, but accomplices). I think it would serve public interest to provide fairly conclusive evidence there wasn’t. And profitability is precisely the reason I do not think they have released surveillance footage. Showing some guy carting up tons of weapons to his room with nary a raised eyebrow would make the hotel look bad. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2018, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-dont-understand-about-the-vegas-shooting/797894/59 "2018-03-06T19:37:32Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > I don’t know that there weren’t multiple people involved with the shooting (not necessarily shooters, but accomplices). I think it would serve public interest to provide fairly conclusive evidence there wasn’t. So far there hasn’t been any evidence of accomplices, despite what I imagine has been a very thorough search for such evidence. This would seem to be fairly conclusive. > [@Ashtura](#): > > And profitability is precisely the reason I do not think they have released surveillance footage. Showing some guy carting up tons of weapons to his room with nary a raised eyebrow would make the hotel look bad. For clarity’s sake, I’ll note that the thread we’re in right now is called “Something I don’t understand about the Vegas shooting.” I will now refer you to a different thread titled [Something else I don’t understand about the Vegas shooting."](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=838065) In it, you’ll find clear explanations of why nobody in a hotel cares when somebody moves luggage from their car to their room, and why housekeeping isn’t bothered when they see luggage in the room. Were you under the impression that Paddock was simply slinging guns over his shoulder and walking through the lobby like [Simon Pegg in Hot Fuzz?](https://www.wnyc.org/story/hot-fuzz/) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2018, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-dont-understand-about-the-vegas-shooting/797894/60 "2018-03-06T20:44:16Z")
I really don’t understand the argument of “why didn’t anyone see him carrying the guns up?”. Most people have luggage when they go into a hotel room, and most luggage is opaque. If they had security footage of him bringing his stuff to his room, it would show a dude walking down a hotel hallway carrying suitcases. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-dont-understand-about-the-vegas-shooting/797894.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-dont-understand-about-the-vegas-shooting/797894.md?page=4)