# Something I need to get off my chest about the SD Board **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 1, 2002, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-need-to-get-off-my-chest-about-the-sd-board/126497 "2002-09-01T00:06:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2002, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-need-to-get-off-my-chest-about-the-sd-board/126497/61 "2002-09-01T18:38:50Z")
> [@](#): > > Who are you to say I’m ignorant or a liar?? You just can’t stop the name calling can you? You keep saying that Catholics worship saints, even after the Catholics tell you that you are wrong. You keep making false assertions about the Mormon faith, even after the Mormons tell you that you are wrong. If you get your facts wrong, and keep doing so even after repeated corrections, then yes, you are a liar. ---
**Author:** ![dreamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6bbea6/32.png) [@dreamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dreamer)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2002, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-need-to-get-off-my-chest-about-the-sd-board/126497/62 "2002-09-01T18:39:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > You need to ask God’s forgiveness for your arrogance and dishonesty. I don’t know **gobear** , but that seems just a little arrogant coming from you. If you’re trying to help **His4ever** see things from your point of view, then that isn’t the way to go about it. IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2002, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-need-to-get-off-my-chest-about-the-sd-board/126497/63 "2002-09-01T18:52:18Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t know gobear, but that seems just a little arrogant coming from you. If you’re trying to help His4ever see things from your point of view, then that isn’t the way to go about it. IMHO Bollocks, I’m showing **H4E** what the Scriptures say about Pharisees, which she most surely is. Besides, I already tried helping her with earnest suggestion of books and tactics. She ignored good advice and now she is in the Pit. She may consider herself lucky that I, unlike others, am eschewing profanity, and instead am quoting the Bible. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2002, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-need-to-get-off-my-chest-about-the-sd-board/126497/64 "2002-09-01T19:15:07Z")
My take on the OP: The user name, “His4Ever” indicates that this poster’s primary purpose in signing up on the SDMB was to witness and/or proselytize and not to partake in any other aspects of the board. If you’re going to metaphorically march up to people’s doors and start witnessing, you have to expect more than a few of those doors to slam in your face, and there’s no good whinging about it. And if you’re going to venture into Great Debates, step up to the plate, and point to the stands, then you better be ready for those fast inside pitches. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2002, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-need-to-get-off-my-chest-about-the-sd-board/126497/65 "2002-09-01T19:25:44Z")
My take on the OP: The user name, “His4Ever” indicates that this poster’s primary purpose in signing up on the SDMB was to witness and/or proselytize and not to partake in any other aspects of the board. If you’re going to metaphorically march up to people’s doors and start witnessing, you have to expect more than a few of those doors to slam in your face, and there’s no good whinging about it. And if you’re going to venture into Great Debates, step up to the plate, and point to the stands, then you better be ready for those fast inside pitches. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2002, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-need-to-get-off-my-chest-about-the-sd-board/126497/66 "2002-09-01T19:32:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > \*\* > Mr. Grendel, the words abomination and unnatural are straight from the word of God as I was quoting Scripture. \*\* What you need to learn is that hateful=hateful, no matter the source. If you think that because these words are in the bible, that it’s OK to call people them, you better only use those words in company that shares your belief that the bible is the holy word of God. Hint: This ain’t that crowd. ---
**Author:** ![Caffeine.addict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f475e1/32.png) [@Caffeine.addict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caffeine.addict)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2002, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-need-to-get-off-my-chest-about-the-sd-board/126497/67 "2002-09-01T19:40:10Z")
> [@](#): > > You can think so if you wish, but I don’t believe my opinions are based on flawed evidence. God’s word isn’t flawed and I happen to believe Thelma Greer. She grew up in a Mormon family, I think she ought to know what her parents taught her. And I don’t believe she’s a hostile ex-mormon. She loved (don’t know if she’s still alive) the mormon people, that’s why she wrote the book. I choose not to agree that her info is fraudulent. Or that the mormon documents included in her book are fraudulent. You can believe that if you want, I don’t. His4ever, the problem is that you don’t seem to understand that not all sources are created equal. You like the Thelma Greer source because it agrees with your preconceived notions of Mormonism. When confronted with conflicting sources from far more reputable sources you have chosen to bury your head in the sand. Well to use your method, I can simply find a source that says that Fundamentalist Christianity is a[Hate Cult](http://www.religionisbullshit.com/fciscult1.htm) or perhaps this source that states that the Cucifixation was a [fraud](http://human.st/ttbr/NFraud.html) . This last link is referring to a published book. The theory behind this book is that Christ was never crucified but rather fled to France and started a dynast of kings. These sources are about as reputable as Granny Greer. Are you going to accept my sources as being valid or are you going to question them? Can you prove that they are wrong? His4ever, you subscibe to one form of Biblical interpretation and probably one that was taught to you. There are many more which disagree rather vehemently with yours. I find it the height of arrogance and presumption for you to state that your interpretation of the bible alone is God’s will especially since you have yet to adequately defend your assertion. You never stated how you know that the bible is the God’s word and not other ways such as the Koran or the Torah ---
**Author:** ![Drastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Drastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drastic)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2002, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-need-to-get-off-my-chest-about-the-sd-board/126497/68 "2002-09-01T19:41:31Z")
I’d just like to point out that it’s physically impossible to nail both your hands to the plank, no matter how gymnastic you are. With that in mind, maybe we could just hurry the process along to inevitable meltdown and skip over much of the intervening territory? No? Ah well. Rome didn’t burn in a day, either. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2002, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-need-to-get-off-my-chest-about-the-sd-board/126497/69 "2002-09-01T19:47:03Z")
> [@](#): > > You never stated how you know that the bible is the God’s word and not other ways such as the Koran or the Torah Easy–the Bible is true because God says so, and God is true because the Bible says so. Life is ever so simple when you employ circular logic. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2002, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-need-to-get-off-my-chest-about-the-sd-board/126497/70 "2002-09-01T21:26:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > \*\* > > I do read the Bible for myself and fyi I do not worship or follow Jack Chick. If I ever see anything in his tracts I disagree with I’ll stop using them. \*\* Spiffy babe, I’m holding you to that. There’s a big Christian thing that you’re not supposed to judge whether someone’s going to Heaven or Hell, right? I mean, you’re allowed to say whether their actions are biblical of course, but it’s a no-no to state catagorically that someone’s goin’ to heaven or hell. So why does Jack Chick do it? [Where’s Rabbi Waxman](http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0014/0014_01.asp) is based on _a real person_ (he was a very liberal reform Rabbi out of California). Chick, in addition to his usual anti-semitic tactics of giving Jews sterotypical appearances straight out of [Nazi-propaganda style artwork](http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/images/giftpilz/scan5.jpg) (note that the linked picture is from a Nazi-Propaganda book called “The Toadstool” and is notorious for it’s virulent anti-Semitism. Note also the similarities in the Nazi portrayal of “dirty Jews” and Mr. Chick’s redititon of Rabbi Waxman) Chick is also quite comfortable condeming Rabbi Waxman to hell. The current revision is missing the page that shows Rabbi Waxman in hell (but you can see a reference to the missing page [here](http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/5756/allgem.htm) and [here](http://216.239.35.100/search?q=cache:D-vkVr4eLMsC:flakmag.com/misc/chick.html+%22jack+chick%22++waxman&hl=en&ie=UTF-8). In any case, there’s no question even from the cleaned-up version which remains, that Chick is saying that Rabbi Waxman is gonna burn. So, we’ve got Chick copying Nazi art to smear one of his political enemies AND we’ve got Chick stating categorically that one of his political enemies is going to hell. So, you gonna repudiate Jack Chick? Fenris ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2002, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-need-to-get-off-my-chest-about-the-sd-board/126497/71 "2002-09-01T22:35:44Z")
Or the one about Love the Jews. However, the Holocaust survivor converts to Christianity in the end, so he’s “saved”. ---
**Author:** ![Tammi\_Terrell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Tammi\_Terrell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tammi_Terrell)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2002, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-need-to-get-off-my-chest-about-the-sd-board/126497/72 "2002-09-01T23:15:21Z")
Oops, I’m sorry, but I’ve just got to drop this in. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\*This board ought to follow the example of Voltaire: **“I do not agree with a word you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”** \*\* You know, that’s a good line, and probably something Voltaire would’ve agreed with, but in truth he never said it. E.B. Hall, who – writing under the pseudonym of S.G. Tallentyre – authored _The Friends of Voltaire_ in 1906 [1], provided that as an example of something Voltaire likely would’ve espoused. Many readers had misunderstood Hall’s passage “‘I disapprove of what you may say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it,’ was his attitude” (pg. 199) to mean that she was actually quoting the philosopher. Boller and George [2] explain that, when questioned about this “quote” thirty years later, Hall averred that “I did not intend to imply that Voltaire used these words verbatim, and should be much surprised if they are found in any of his works.” Tammi “speaking _Candide_ly” Terrell [1] London: Smith, Elder, & Co. [2] P.F. Boller, Jr., and John George. They Never Said It: A Book of Fake Quotes, Misquotes, and Misleading Attributions. (New York: Oxford University Press, 1989). (pp. 124-146). ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2002, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-need-to-get-off-my-chest-about-the-sd-board/126497/73 "2002-09-01T23:20:11Z")
Welcome to the boards **Tammi**! Your post was great. It was detailed and had all the cites and backup needed! And just your third post. Been a lurker long? I’ll look forward to future posts by you, especially if they are as good as this one. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2002, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-need-to-get-off-my-chest-about-the-sd-board/126497/74 "2002-09-01T23:20:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > Mr. Grendel, the words abomination and unnatural are straight from the word of God as I was quoting Scripture. Incorrect. The words “abomination” and “unnatural” are **translations** of words found in the Bible supposedly referring not only to homosexual acts but other things like eating … what was it? Lobster or something? And any translation (and this is something you’ll see being said quite often on this board) is going to be flawed, ultimately. Or didn’t you know the Bible wasn’t originally written in English?🙂 > [@](#): > > So I guess you’re calling God hateful and evil?? He is the one who says it’s an abomination and unnatural. And using the f word and throwing your little hissy fits isn’t going to change that. You guys are something else is all I can say. Well, I tell you what. The higher entity in which/whom I believe doesn’t condemn people to hell for loving human consenting adults. If the God you believe in would send someone to hell for being gay and having unrepentant consentual sex with a person of their gender, I’m not so sure I like that God. Doesn’t strike me as being the kind I grew up believing in. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2002, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-need-to-get-off-my-chest-about-the-sd-board/126497/75 "2002-09-01T23:28:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\*Easy–the Bible is true because God says so… \*\* I’m quite certain that this statement can not be entirely substantiated given that what we know today as the bible did not exist as an entity during the authorship of the various books and letters that eventually were chosen to comprise it. In other words, you can not find any reference where God is quoted as saying the bible is true.Even **His4ever** knows this, so you’ll have to come up with another rationalization for **His4ever’s** belief if that is what you wish to do. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2002, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-need-to-get-off-my-chest-about-the-sd-board/126497/76 "2002-09-01T23:57:30Z")
> [@](#): > > She grew up in a Mormon family, I think she ought to know what her parents taught her. Fair enough. But keep in mind that I, too, grew up with a Mormon family. I, too, left the church because I don’t believe it. Either I - and the others who disagreed with the sentiments you wrote (citing Thelma Greer) about Mormonism - have been given an incorrect message about Mormonism, or Ms. Greer has. But that’s not even part of my beef. You’ve cited several beliefs (some true, some not) as evidence that Mormons are not “Christians”… however, you failed to explain _how_ the cited beliefs indicate that. I fail to see how a belief that all men and women are spiritual brothers and sisters constitutes an Unchristian belief, for example. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2002, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-need-to-get-off-my-chest-about-the-sd-board/126497/77 "2002-09-02T01:00:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > \*\* > > Mr. Grendel, the words abomination and unnatural are straight from the word of God as I was quoting Scripture. So I guess you’re calling God hateful and evil?? He is the one who says it’s an abomination and unnatural. \*\* Yes. And he also stated clearly that eating seafood was an abomination too. But despite being called on it several time, you still failed to explain why you don’t condemn eating seafood as strongly as homosexuality. Same with the questions people asked to you about Paul’s teachings concerning women status. So, once again, how do you dare to pick and choose in the bible and in Paul’s teachings? As long as you don’t give any sensible explanation, you’re reasonning is totally unconsistent. So, assuming there’s a God and a hell : 1)Either you’re right, the bible is litterary true and in this case you’re picking and choosing amongst God’s commandments and Paul’s teachings to suit your wicked lifestyle (eating seafood and arguing about religion despite being a woman) : in which case, you’re not a real christian and you’re going to hell 2)Either you’re wrong, the bible isn’t litterary true, and you’re not following the teaching of Jesus by passing judgments on others, and presenting yourself as a supreme arbiter of God’s will : in which case you’re still not a real christian and you’re going to hell too. No way out. You’re damned. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2002, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-need-to-get-off-my-chest-about-the-sd-board/126497/78 "2002-09-02T01:01:41Z")
Except if you repent and see the errors in your ways, of course…😉 ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2002, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-need-to-get-off-my-chest-about-the-sd-board/126497/79 "2002-09-02T01:03:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SPOOFE \* > I fail to see how a belief that all men and women are spiritual brothers and sisters constitutes an Unchristian belief, for example. I was under the impression that this is one of the (while not completely dogma-based, more spiritually-based) tenets of Christianity itself … that people are all brothers and sisters under God… ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2002, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-need-to-get-off-my-chest-about-the-sd-board/126497/80 "2002-09-02T01:13:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > \*\* > You keep saying that Catholics worship saints, even after the Catholics tell you that you are wrong. > > You keep making false assertions about the Mormon faith, even after the Mormons tell you that you are wrong. > > If you get your facts wrong, and keep doing so even after repeated corrections, then yes, you are a liar. \*\* You sure? According to my OED a liar is someone who tells an intentional falsehood. I’m not sure that someone who believes something, and continues to do so despite the weight of all evidence, is a liar as long as they actually believe, because as long as they believe, they do not _intend_ to be false. And His4ever _believes_. Thinks? Nope. Employs reason? Nope. Has any real sense of respect for the beliefs of others? Nope. But believes? Oh yes. Ohhh yes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-need-to-get-off-my-chest-about-the-sd-board/126497.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-need-to-get-off-my-chest-about-the-sd-board/126497.md?page=5)