# Something I need to get off my chest about the SD Board **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 1, 2002, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-need-to-get-off-my-chest-about-the-sd-board/126497 "2002-09-01T00:06:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2002, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-need-to-get-off-my-chest-about-the-sd-board/126497/121 "2002-09-02T21:44:06Z")
The “ignore” function is under your User Profile. HOWEVER…board policy expressly forbids that we discuss who we are ignoring and why, to avoid more flames and it being used as a weapon. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2002, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-need-to-get-off-my-chest-about-the-sd-board/126497/122 "2002-09-02T21:45:04Z")
Good thing I didn’t ask if she wanted a million bucks. ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2002, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-need-to-get-off-my-chest-about-the-sd-board/126497/123 "2002-09-02T21:45:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wring \* There have been people who’ve called for your banning, but the point [is] > your habit of posting provocative OP’s w/o sufficient back up. Calls for banning have occurred in cases where the backup was adequate and the allegations were true.[E.g.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=132466&perpage=50&pagenumber=2), ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2002, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-need-to-get-off-my-chest-about-the-sd-board/126497/124 "2002-09-02T21:47:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > \*\*I’m not going to … throw hissies just because they don’t agree with me even if I do think they’re wrong. \*\* Then why did you start this thread? Sounds like a hissy fit to me. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2002, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-need-to-get-off-my-chest-about-the-sd-board/126497/125 "2002-09-02T21:48:01Z")
**His4Ever** , I firmly believe I have God’s Word as well. We obviously disagree with what exactly that Word is, however. To me, the essence of our common faiths can be summed up in the following words (Matthew 22:37-40): > [@](#): > > Thou shalt love the Lord, thy God with all thy heart and with all they soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like unto it: Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. You have come onto this board espousing the views of Jack Chick, who, from all I’ve seen of him, espouses hatred and falsehood. You cite cruel interpretations of Old Testament verses and, when other Christians respectfully tell you their interpretations differ and cite other verses in the Bible and give you their interpretations, all you do is say you don’t know enough, but that you’re sure your interpretation is right. Christ Himself specifically said “love the Lord . . . with all thy _mind_” (emphasis mine, of course), but you appear to abstain from thinking. If you condemn people who do not share your specific interpretation of Christianity, including those of us who have accepted Christ as our Saviour, how do you reconcile that with “love thy neighbor as thyself”? I asked you this once, but it may have gotten lost among other responses. Given two people who have accepted Christ as their Saviour, how can it be that the one who shows kindness, aids the poor, and lives a righteous life would be condemned simply because he or she is homosexual, while one who shows cruelty and lives only for his or her own best interests is granted everlasting life? I respect your sincerity and your faith, but the condemning tone I hear in your posts nearly drove me from Christianity, and it _was_ successful in driving others away. To quote what’s been called the quintessential American sentence (from _Huck Finn_, as said by Huck), “All right then, I’ll go to Hell.” The sin he was being condemned for was helping Jim, a slave, escape, if I recall. If you want people who will automatically agree with you, you’re on the wrong board, I’m afraid. If you want people who will challenge you, think about what you read, and respond to you, you’re on the right one. Hey, come on, I once even got Kirkland to agree that not all Christians are all that bad! 😉 CJ BTW, Kirkland, I still do fondly remember that exchange. ---
**Author:** ![Caffeine.addict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f475e1/32.png) [@Caffeine.addict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Caffeine.addict)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2002, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-need-to-get-off-my-chest-about-the-sd-board/126497/126 "2002-09-02T21:55:01Z")
His4ever, stated > [@](#): > > They can have all the standards they want, I don’t particular understand these people at all. If I choose to debate something, I"m not going to change my views on it just because everyone else thinks they have a more enlightened view or “proof” that they are right. I didn’t bring the subject of homosexuality up, but when asked I’m not going to lie just to make everyone happy. And if it’s a requirement on this board to change my view just because everyone else says they have proof to the contrary, that don’t cut it with me. I have **God’s** word, I know what it says on this issue. So they don’t need to give me a bunch of garbage because I refuse to change my view on this. So they disagree, fine. I’m not going to call them names and throw hissies just because they don’t agree with me even if I do think they’re wrong. _bolding mine_ The first point is that some sources are more reputable than others, I’ve stated as such several other times and don’t feel like repeating myself anymore. Most of us are asking that you defend your views. People have given you different interpretations of the Bible which you have chosen to ignore. How do you know what God’s word is. Has he spoken to you? Just because you think that the your particularly literalist interpretation is God’s word doesn’t make it so. There are many different religions and many different interpretations for there to be a clear definition of what God’s word is. Unless he has been making house calls without me knowing, I don’t think anyone can substantiate the claim that they have God’s word. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2002, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-need-to-get-off-my-chest-about-the-sd-board/126497/127 "2002-09-02T21:57:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\*Calls for banning have occurred in cases where the backup was adequate and the allegations were true.[E.g.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=132466&perpage=50&pagenumber=2), \*\* and of course, there are numerous examples (already posted) where the opposite is true (thus my statement). all of which indicates that your _claim_ that the calls for your banning are for your POV, is incorrect, as I stated. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2002, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-need-to-get-off-my-chest-about-the-sd-board/126497/128 "2002-09-02T21:58:05Z")
HIS4EVER – > [@](#): > > They can have all the standards they want, I don’t particular understand these people at all. If I choose to debate something, I"m not going to change my views on it just because everyone else thinks they have a more enlightened view or “proof” that they are right. No one is asking you to do that. What we have asked is that you _explain_ why you hold the views you do. But you refuse to do so. Case in point: You pointed to OT and NT references for “proof” that God condemns homosexuals. Several people then pointed out to you that the books in _both_ the OT and the NT that you cited also contain other provisions – dietary rules in the OT, rules governing the behavior or women in the NT. We then asked you the obvious question: If you hold so strongly to the words in the Bible and believe you must strictly construe it and obey it, why do you not obey _everything_ in it, including those _other_ rules and prohibitions? You refuse to answer. As has already been explained to you, that cuts no ice around here. If you want to debate in Great Debates, you must _debate_. When someone challenges your point, you must _defend_ it, or they will reasonably assume that you cannot do so. This is the conclusion several people have reached about you. > [@](#): > > I didn’t bring the subject of homosexuality up, but when asked I’m not going to lie just to make everyone happy. And if it’s a requirement on this board to change my view just because everyone else says they have proof to the contrary, that don’t cut it with me. I have God’s word, I know what it says on this issue. _I_ have God’s word as well, and _I_ know what it says on this issue as well, and I am _telling you_ that it does not say to me what it says to you. So why should anyone believe your version over mine, when your version at worst condemns people to hell for something they had no choice in (their sexuality) or at best expects them to live in perfect celibacy forever just because they are not straight? Again, these are reasonable questions in the context of the beliefs you profess to hold. I don’t expect that you’ll answer them, though; you never do. > [@](#): > > So they don’t need to give me a bunch of garbage because I refuse to change my view on this. So they disagree, fine. I’m not going to call them names and throw hissies just because they don’t agree with me even if I do think they’re wrong. Go for you. Seriously. Do not allow the bad behavior of others to prompt bad behavior on your part. (I am singularly bad at following this advice myself, unfortunately.) But kindly stop making pronouncements about the will of God, or even what the Bible says, if you’re not willing to back up your statements with any explanation or defense. Because they _will_ be attacked – repeatedly. And frankly your habit of telling people what God does or does not want, or do, or say, and then refusing to defend those opinions, does a disservice to every other Christian who wants to share their faith fully and openly, educate others on the variety of Christian beliefs, and witness to the love of God. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2002, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-need-to-get-off-my-chest-about-the-sd-board/126497/129 "2002-09-02T22:02:18Z")
**december** , why don’t you just change your name to **disengenous** and have done with it? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2002, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-need-to-get-off-my-chest-about-the-sd-board/126497/130 "2002-09-02T22:08:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sparc \* > but for the love of some fucking reason and order please stick to the topic. december has been pitted and examined and dissected and rebuked and analyzed enough, don’t you think? So why pick on me? I didn’t reach back for a long forgotten **December** post to repeat for the 1000th time why he is so reviled on SDMB. Frankly I’m fuckin sick of it. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2002, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-need-to-get-off-my-chest-about-the-sd-board/126497/131 "2002-09-02T22:10:45Z")
**His4ever:** The “ignore” button isn’t a “button” as such. To find it, click on the “User CP” button next to the big blue and gold Straight Dope banner at the top of the page here. It brings up something called the “User Control Panel”. Now, see over on the right, where it says “Edit Ignore List”? That’s where you can input the names of specific Dopers whose posts you wish to ignore. Be advised that the official board policy is NOT to talk about “who’s on your Ignore list”, as in “Nyah, nyah, I’m ignoring you”. > [@](#): > > _originally posted by His4ever:_ > I"m not going to change my views on it just because everyone else thinks they have a more enlightened view or “proof” that they are right… And if it’s a requirement on this board to change my view just because everyone else says they have proof to the contrary, that don’t cut it with me. I have God’s word… Okay, I can state this quite definitely now, His4ever: **you are on the wrong message board.** People who assert defiantly, “I know what I believe, and no matter how much proof you show me, I refuse to even consider changing my mind!” are simply not happy here. Yes, dear, unfortunately it is a requirement here on this message board, on this website devoted to Fighting Ignorance, that you change your view when _everyone else_ shows you proof to the contrary. Nobody’s asking you to change your **faith** or your **beliefs** here–you seem to be missing this point. We’re just asking you to change the **facts** that you have in your head about certain things, like Catholics and Mormons, that are incorrect, meaning “wrong”. You seem to be interpreting this request for you to change your _facts_ as an attack on your religious _faith_, and the more we challenge your _facts_, the tighter you clutch your Bible, as if we were challenging your _faith_. But you’re missing the point, totally. Nobody cares what you believe about God–it’s what you believe about Catholics and Mormons that concerns us. And Catholics and Mormons, in case you hadn’t noticed, aren’t mentioned in the Bible. Do yourself, and us, a huge favor and go somewhere else. I mean, nothing good is going to happen to you here if you keep up at this rate. You’re going to keep on posting, “The Bible says I’m right!” and “I don’t care what the facts are, I refuse to change my mind!” and people like Kirkland are going to keep right on flaming your ass for it. Is that what you want from a message board? Is that what you want from us? You want us to yell at you? What are you, some kind of masochist? “Hurts so gooooood”, like that? 😕 I don’t get it. Or else stick to the other “easier” forums, like MPSIMS, and stay out of Great Debates. If you come into Great Debates, be warned–you’re going to be expected to be able to defend your views. And if you can’t, if you merely clutch your Bible and insist, “God’s Word says it’s so!” then you’re going to get your feelings hurt, boo hoo, and you’re going to feel _so_ misunderstood by all the Big Meanies in GD. So we’re back to, “Do you _enjoy_ feeling misunderstood by Big Meanies? Is it good for you? Is this here Pit thread that you’ve started giving you real pleasure, all these people taking the trouble to yell at you?” 'Cause that’s really sick. :rolleyes: yeah, i know that’s judgemental, chacun a son gout and all that, so sue me ---
**Author:** ![lel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8797f3/32.png) [@lel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lel)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2002, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-need-to-get-off-my-chest-about-the-sd-board/126497/132 "2002-09-02T22:12:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by His4ever \* > \*\*And if it’s a requirement on this board to change my view just because everyone else says they have proof to the contrary, that don’t cut it with me. I have God’s word, I know what it says on this issue. So they don’t need to give me a bunch of garbage because I refuse to change my view on this. So they disagree, fine. \*\* Frankly, an important thing around here is respecting the ideas of others by being willing to listen to them. Note that I did not say change your views; most people don’t completely change their views on things they hold dear. The only situation I’m familiar with where there’s proof to the contrary on an issue is with the source cited regarding LDS doctrine (thread linked earlier by in this thread by **DDG** ). That has nothing to do with whether or not you consider the LDS faith to be Christian or not. They’re merely asking you to judge whether or not the LDS faith is Christian on a proper reading of their doctrines, and not a biased source. You might well read all the books and websites that were stated by various posters in that thread to give an accurate reading of the LDS faith and still come to the conclusion that such faith is not Christian, as interpreted by your reading of Biblical standards. _goes off to search for a husband to “learn in full submission” and “[be saved through childbearing](http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?language=english&passage=1+timothy+2%3A11-15&version=NIV)”_ ---
**Author:** ![Sparc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Sparc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparc)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2002, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-need-to-get-off-my-chest-about-the-sd-board/126497/133 "2002-09-02T22:12:48Z")
> [@](#): > > _Grienspace_ > > Well that’s the point isn’t it. Provocative OP’s. There’s never sufficient backup for a provocative OP, extreme left or right if you’re inclined to disagree. If your OP is sufficiently non controversial no one cares if you back it up. and if you wish to criticize a controversial OP without backup that’s okay too. All you need to say is “fuck you” Not that I will pretend that I fully understand the drivel you thus posted, but for the love of some fucking reason and order please stick to the topic. december has been pitted and examined and dissected and rebuked and analyzed enough, don’t you think? What I guess to read out of your hogwash it seems that you haven’t understood one single one of those pittings though. Which brings me back to this thread. It’s ok to be provocative if, and I say _if_, you have some fucking ground to stand on. When your basis is conjecture, falsifications and lies like the precious little member here under examination is being accused of, then it’s just pointless to engage in. Maybe that would be a solution to recommend at more times, the problem is that when we let falsehood stand unchallenged it smears the overall quality of the boards with the putrid smelling offal of ignorance, which is quite contrary to the standards we try to hold in debate in GD. When these excrements are smeared in the face of members who themselves do not engage in that sort of debate, it’s a violation of the respect that we afford each others as peers. Sparc ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2002, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-need-to-get-off-my-chest-about-the-sd-board/126497/134 "2002-09-02T22:15:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wring \* > my ‘off thetop of my head’ list of consevatives who get called on the carpet continually include you and **december**. Oh dear. For the record I’m not conservative. You won’t find one post of mine where I claim to be one or where I have demonstrated so called conservative values socially or fiscally. ---
**Author:** ![Sparc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Sparc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparc)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2002, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-need-to-get-off-my-chest-about-the-sd-board/126497/135 "2002-09-02T22:20:45Z")
Sorry about the re-post… back button mania when I came back to my computer. Sparc ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2002, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-need-to-get-off-my-chest-about-the-sd-board/126497/136 "2002-09-02T22:30:33Z")
**grien** - sorry - I have no specific memory of being on the same side of an arguement as you, hence my assumption that you were conservative. ---
**Author:** ![RexDart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@RexDart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RexDart)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2002, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-need-to-get-off-my-chest-about-the-sd-board/126497/137 "2002-09-02T22:42:49Z")
It’s like there’s a **december** Pitting going on interspersed amidst this thread. Heck we’ve been down that road often enough just in the short months I’ve been here, everyone else must be _really_ sick of it. Anyways, on point with a story to illustrate… I spent this weekend past with a Protestant Christian friend of mine (and because he’s my best friend for years, dating back to before he had much interest in religion, I allowed him to drag me to his Lutheran church **shudder** ) I asked him his opinion of homosexuality. He’s pretty well-read about religious issues, usually has plenty of things to say about textual analysis of the Bible, but even he couldn’t come up with a good defense for a literal reading of the homosexual passages. He didn’t even realize that the good ol’ KJV had language _more_ ambiguous on the topic. I could have accepted that he just wasn’t well-read on the issue if not for the fact that he constantly makes assertions about homosexuality. If the topic just wasn’t central to his spirituality it would be understandable, but he was expressing strong opinions on the subject, including a conceptualization of God and humanity’s gender roles that he treated with reverence. OTOH, I think **H4E** is not really that wrapped up in the homosexuality issue. Most of us don’t really have the time to critically examine _every_ assertion we make or belief we hold. The beliefs that are critical to our daily lives, the arguments critical to our daily discourse, those we examine. If **H4E** doesn’t regularly encounter homosexuality (not counting the closeted gays she surely knows because she isn’t aware of it) and most people around her generally agree with her, she’d have no reason to look too deeply into that issue. I don’t expect an elaborate defense of her biblical interpretation on an issue that isn’t central to her life. What I _do_ expect is that, once having realized that one’s knowledge is insufficient to adequately discuss the arguments and defenses at issue, one will bow out. **H4E** sort of did this, saying she was not able to defend the position in GD due to lack of knowledge. She claimed also to be unprepared to give the issue the level of thought necessary to reach a change of opinion. Fair enough. So basically, **H4E** is here to do little more than “witnessing” and recitation of common viewpoints held by like-minded people. Is that particularly useful? No. Is it particularly harmful? No. Let’s face it, there are plenty of people in GD whose remarks only rarely contribute much to the discussion. Outlandish remarks, blatant falsehoods, these are quickly corrected by other GD denizens, thus doing no harm. So I find it difficult to be hostile towards **H4E** as some here have been. Even a broken clock is right twice a day, so I’d rather have as many perspectives as possible on a board like this in case one of them has some insight from time to time. Just IMO, of course. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2002, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-need-to-get-off-my-chest-about-the-sd-board/126497/138 "2002-09-02T22:45:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\ ***grienspace** -so apparently, it doesn’t matter that I have 24 years and counting of living in a Catholic family, attending Mass for 20 some years, 9 years in a Catholic school and four in a Catholic college? > > That’s only “hearsay?” \*\* Somehow the story of **Madeleine** comes to mind :). I’m sure you’ve read it. With all due respect **Guinastasia** your experience and knowlege regarding the Roman Catholic faith is extremely valid, but I fear we are hung up with the definition of the word “worship”, and creating a far worse schism between the two of you than actually exists. In fact, I’m at a loss where **His4ever** even refers to the worship of saints. With regard to “hearsay”, you must agree that even I, being a Christian all my life (well baptized within two weeks of birth) and that is for damn near 52 years can not speak with authority for the beliefs and _practices_ of all Christians throughout the world. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2002, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-need-to-get-off-my-chest-about-the-sd-board/126497/139 "2002-09-02T23:24:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by grendel72 \* > \*\*You can search through her past posts. Someone asked her opinion on certain Jack Chick tracts, including one that equates Catholic saints with pagan gods. **His4Ever** stated that she agrees with that. \*\* Okay, I’ve gone through all her posts. Can’t find one where she refers to the saints as pagan gods or where she refers to a specific Jack Chick tract on the saints/pagan gods. Certainly she’s on record in support of Jack Chick in general but it is a stretch to convey on her a particularly odious belief of Chick’s without corroboration from her. In short I call bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2002, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-need-to-get-off-my-chest-about-the-sd-board/126497/140 "2002-09-02T23:41:15Z")
Not only that: Can we get of the girl’s case about whether Catholics worship saints? Yes, yes, I know perfectly well that Catholics say they do _not_ worship saints, and that there is a difference between worship and veneration, but it is surely inarguable that the two can look a lot alike. I have _no_ problem with Catholics, but frankly I can see where a person might _legitimately_ conclude that she does not agree with the distinction the Catholics are drawing there, and therefore may regard what they do as worship – _even while fully acknowledging Catholics themselves do not view it that way_. I mean, what the hell do you guys want – for her to lie and say she doesn’t believe something she does? I have encountered Jews who believe that Christianity is idolatry because of the Trinity. As a Christian, I have talked until I was _blue in the face_ to explain that the Trinity does not equal three gods and that Christians worship _one God_, just as the Jews do, and the same God at that. Some Jews do not believe this. They get the Trinity; they see the distinction I make; and they _still_ view the Trinity as three gods and Christianity as idolatry. So, okay. This may – does – piss me off because idolatry is just as big a deal to a Christian as it is to a Jew, but I can’t change what they believe, and I can’t say that they do not have the right to hold those beliefs. I have no problem with her holding whatever beliefs she wants. As I told her in a different thread, the cast-iron response to “why do you believe X?” is “because that is what God leads me to believe.” No one can argue with that, no matter how ridiculous others may consider the belief in question to be. _My_ problems with her start when she cites Scripture for her beliefs and then refuses to explain why the Bible should be interpreted as _she_ chooses to interpret it, or why it’s okay for _her_ to pick and choose what Biblical exhortation she follows, but not okay for the rest of us. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-need-to-get-off-my-chest-about-the-sd-board/126497.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-i-need-to-get-off-my-chest-about-the-sd-board/126497.md?page=8)