# Something not quite right about that Crown Vic that plowed into the spectators in MD. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 17, 2008, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-not-quite-right-about-that-crown-vic-that-plowed-into-the-spectators-in-md/438023 "2008-02-17T22:35:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-not-quite-right-about-that-crown-vic-that-plowed-into-the-spectators-in-md/438023/61 "2008-02-19T02:09:00Z")
If anyone want’s a little insight into the mindset of people who are doing this racing(and the people who watch it), you might read a story from today. [http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0208/496994.html](http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0208/496994.html) ---
**Author:** ![Ferns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/90ced4/32.png) [@Ferns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferns)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-not-quite-right-about-that-crown-vic-that-plowed-into-the-spectators-in-md/438023/62 "2008-02-19T03:01:45Z")
[QUOTE=A.R. Cane] The idea that shoving a door through the windshield makes any difference to future investigation, or legal outcomes, is _ **not worthy of consideration** _. [/QUOTE] Okay, well. That’s it then. Too many pompous, snarky people on here for my taste. My trial membership ends shortly, I had thought of joining but have lost interest. I did enjoy some exchanges with a few of the members here that I started to get to know, but that’s really outweighed by the behavior I’ve witnessed, by numerous supercilious members who seem to hold new members in distain. I had heard this about straightdope actually so I guess I shouldn’t be too disappointed about it. Signing off. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-not-quite-right-about-that-crown-vic-that-plowed-into-the-spectators-in-md/438023/63 "2008-02-19T03:21:08Z")
[QUOTE=Ferns] Okay, well. That’s it then. Too many pompous, snarky people on here for my taste. My trial membership ends shortly, I had thought of joining but have lost interest. I did enjoy some exchanges with a few of the members here that I started to get to know, but that’s really outweighed by the behavior I’ve witnessed, by numerous supercilious members who seem to hold new members in distain. I had heard this about straightdope actually so I guess I shouldn’t be too disappointed about it. Signing off. [/QUOTE] Sorry to hear that, Ferns. This place is indeed full of people who don’t know any more actual facts than you, but treat their opinions as unchallengeable facts. The trick is to recognize it and disengage. It’s fine to make your point and leave it at that, rather than respond to everyone who disagrees. Not responding does not equal capitulation. So anyway, don’t let your inability to convince everyone that you have a valid point be the difference between staying and leaving. Stick around and have some fun. There were times early on here that I was on the verge of leaving for the very same reasons. What I decided is that this is a far less civil place than the real world I live in, and while it can be intimidating, it can also be liberating. Why I stay here is that I can openly state opinions, feelings and even fantasies that have no outlet anywhere else. Even if no one replies, the exercise of making a coherent statement of your position, or perhaps a deliberately incoherent one, is great fun and intellectually stimulating. In my case, it has directly led to probably the only 15 minutes of [genuine fame](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=431467&highlight=Derleth) I will ever ever have. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-not-quite-right-about-that-crown-vic-that-plowed-into-the-spectators-in-md/438023/64 "2008-02-19T03:41:09Z")
[QUOTE=Ferns] Okay, well. That’s it then. Too many pompous, snarky people on here for my taste. My trial membership ends shortly, I had thought of joining but have lost interest. I did enjoy some exchanges with a few of the members here that I started to get to know, but that’s really outweighed by the behavior I’ve witnessed, by numerous supercilious members who seem to hold new members in distain. I had heard this about straightdope actually so I guess I shouldn’t be too disappointed about it. Signing off. [/QUOTE] I’m sorry you’re not staying. What I’m reading out of your departure, unfortunately, suggests that you’re not looking to engage people in debate; you’re looking to _win._ Most people on the Straight Dope are, in our small circles, the ones that others turn to for answers. It does take a bit of adjustment to realize that here, we are no longer the big fish in a small pond; we are small fish in a very large pond, and we are **not** always right, our words are **not** always worshiped, our points of view are **not** held in awe by the plebeians who know nothing. Here, other reasonable and intelligent people may come to a different conclusion. Here, many new members come onto the boards, swaggering like gunslingers, trying to establish themselves as the Great White Hope, shoving answers and witticisms at everyone, trying to make a name — and stomping out when the established members tire of that behavior. I haven’t seen enough of you, particularly, to determine if that describes you, but it would be a shame if you let one or two people deprive you of potential enjoyment of a site to which you seem well-suited. For the record, when I see the meticulous marking of evidence at the site of an MVC, I think to myself, “they’re trying to create the basis for mathematically deducing his speed.” For this it is essential that they know how far things moved _after_ they hit the car, but it isn’t critical to know where, precisely, they were struck _on the car’s surface._ And I assume this because excessive speed could be the basis for criminal charges against the driver — reckless driving, for instance. There doesn’t seem to be much point in testing each piece of glass on the vehicle for blood traces because those wouldn’t _specifically_ lead to greater or lesser charges. (“You have been found guilty of clipping someone with the front right turn signal lens. Four days in jail.” (“Your honor, we would like to appeal, since it’s obvious he clipped him with the side turn signal, not the one in the front grille.”) ---
**Author:** ![A.R.Cane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@A.R.Cane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.R.Cane)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-not-quite-right-about-that-crown-vic-that-plowed-into-the-spectators-in-md/438023/65 "2008-02-19T03:41:44Z")
[QUOTE=Ferns] Okay, well. That’s it then. Too many pompous, snarky people on here for my taste. My trial membership ends shortly, I had thought of joining but have lost interest. I did enjoy some exchanges with a few of the members here that I started to get to know, but that’s really outweighed by the behavior I’ve witnessed, by numerous supercilious members who seem to hold new members in distain. I had heard this about straightdope actually so I guess I shouldn’t be too disappointed about it. Signing off. [/QUOTE] “Snarky”, really? Albeit several decades ago, I was simply basing my opinion on personal experience. It’s unfortunate that you choose to take offense, but that is your choice to make. ---
**Author:** ![Ferns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/90ced4/32.png) [@Ferns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferns)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-not-quite-right-about-that-crown-vic-that-plowed-into-the-spectators-in-md/438023/66 "2008-02-19T03:51:40Z")
[QUOTE=Boyo Jim] Sorry to hear that, Ferns. This place is indeed full of people who don’t know any more actual facts than you, but treat their opinions as unchallengeable facts. The trick is to recognize it and disengage. [/QUOTE] Thanks, Boyo Jim. I’m a long term member on some other boards, so I do understand the give and take and am pretty good at ignoring the pompous asshats. I don’t like the overall “tone” here and am not going to pay money to stay. It feels "clique-ey and I just don’t care for it. My membership expires in an hour or so, so thanks again for the friendly goodbye. Maybe I’ll see you on another board sometime. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-not-quite-right-about-that-crown-vic-that-plowed-into-the-spectators-in-md/438023/67 "2008-02-19T04:11:29Z")
[QUOTE=Ferns] My trial membership ends shortly, I had thought of joining but have lost interest. I did enjoy some exchanges with a few of the members here that I started to get to know, but that’s really outweighed by the behavior I’ve witnessed, by numerous supercilious members who seem to hold new members in distain. I had heard this about straightdope actually so I guess I shouldn’t be too disappointed about it. [/QUOTE] If it makes you feel any better, when I hit “Reply” I almost never look to see who I’m replying to or what their Member/Guest status or post count is. I would have typed the same response that I did if you had been here since 1999 and had 30,000+ posts. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-not-quite-right-about-that-crown-vic-that-plowed-into-the-spectators-in-md/438023/68 "2008-02-19T04:53:46Z")
Is he gone yet? [supercilious] It’s **disdain**! [/supercilious] C’mon. You were **all** thinking it! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-not-quite-right-about-that-crown-vic-that-plowed-into-the-spectators-in-md/438023/69 "2008-02-19T05:08:37Z")
[QUOTE=Phase42] If it makes you feel any better, when I hit “Reply” I almost never look to see who I’m replying to or what their Member/Guest status or post count is. I would have typed the same response that I did if you had been here since 1999 and had 30,000+ posts. [/QUOTE] FWIW I am the same way. Your status as a guest had nothing to do with how my posts in this thread were written. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-not-quite-right-about-that-crown-vic-that-plowed-into-the-spectators-in-md/438023/70 "2008-02-19T05:11:10Z")
[Washington Post: Driver Who Hit Race Crowd Tried to Stop, Uncle Says](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/18/AR2008021802421.html) > [@](#): > > Driving north on Indian Head Highway after go-go band practice, Darren Jamar Bullock saw the silhouettes of dozens of spectators gathered for an illegal street race on the desolate Prince George’s County road. > … > “He hasn’t been saying much of anything,” Walls said. “He walks around like he’s in a daze.” > > Bullock walked away from the crumpled car with a bruised lip, Walls said, and his older brother, who was in the passenger seat, also was not seriously injured. ---
**Author:** ![A.R.Cane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@A.R.Cane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.R.Cane)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-not-quite-right-about-that-crown-vic-that-plowed-into-the-spectators-in-md/438023/71 "2008-02-19T05:41:11Z")
[QUOTE=nyctea scandiaca] [Washington Post: Driver Who Hit Race Crowd Tried to Stop, Uncle Says](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/18/AR2008021802421.html) [/QUOTE] Perhaps **Ferns** will take the time to read that link, but I suppose it’s too much to ask that facts would affect knee jerk opinions. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-not-quite-right-about-that-crown-vic-that-plowed-into-the-spectators-in-md/438023/72 "2008-02-19T20:06:19Z")
[QUOTE=Rick] FWIW I am the same way. Your status as a guest had nothing to do with how my posts in this thread were written. [/QUOTE] Likewise ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-not-quite-right-about-that-crown-vic-that-plowed-into-the-spectators-in-md/438023/73 "2008-02-19T20:37:39Z")
[QUOTE=GorillaMan] How long has it been since they were available for general purchase, anyway? [/QUOTE] According to Wikipedia Crown Vics are fleet sales only for 2008, but were still sold to consumers up to the 2007 model year. They outsold the Ford 500 in 2007, probably because the 500 didn’t have much of an engine. That Crown Vic body style in the pictures looks like it’s probably 7-8 years old. It was probably either a state/county car sold at auction or just a cheap used car purchased from an older seller. A couple young guys around here drive them. My grandmother has a Crown Vic that’s 3 or 4 years old, newer body style than that one. And before that my grandparents had a late 80’s model Crown Vic. They’re nice traditional full-size rear-drive cars with V8 power. There’s nothing that special about the “Police Package” ones. It usually consists of stiffer springs, higher-output alternator, things like that. Not usually any engine mods. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-not-quite-right-about-that-crown-vic-that-plowed-into-the-spectators-in-md/438023/74 "2008-02-19T20:44:20Z")
[NPR’s _Talk of the Nation_](http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=19168301) did a piece on the crash today, including interviewing one of the paramedics who was at the scene. Apparently, it was a well known place for street racing. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-not-quite-right-about-that-crown-vic-that-plowed-into-the-spectators-in-md/438023/75 "2008-02-19T20:45:38Z")
**Fish** writes (to **Ferns** ): > [@](#): > > I’m sorry you’re not staying. What I’m reading out of your departure, unfortunately, suggests that you’re not looking to engage people in debate; you’re looking to win. That’s not what I read out of it at all. Granted, I haven’t been following his replies, or even this whole interchange, but he’s clearly responding to **A.R. Cane** ’s response: > [@](#): > > The idea that shoving a door through the windshield makes any difference to future investigation, or legal outcomes, is not worthy of consideration. …which seems, even to me, a snarky way to shut off further comment – It says “Only an Idiot would not see this as the obvious situation” to someone who is asking a question, and to whom it is certainly NOT an obvious situation. It strikes me as a rude response. You could easily say the same thing without the snarkiness. ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-not-quite-right-about-that-crown-vic-that-plowed-into-the-spectators-in-md/438023/76 "2008-02-19T21:06:06Z")
[QUOTE=silenus] My first question was: Can you even buy a civilian Crown Vic anymore? I thought they were only manufactured as police cars. [/QUOTE] Crown Victorias are practically the default taxicab down here. Granted, those may be former police cruisers, but they do make it into civilian hands. ---
**Author:** ![A.R.Cane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee7513/32.png) [@A.R.Cane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A.R.Cane)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-not-quite-right-about-that-crown-vic-that-plowed-into-the-spectators-in-md/438023/77 "2008-02-19T21:27:32Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] **Fish** writes (to **Ferns** ): That’s not what I read out of it at all. Granted, I haven’t been following his replies, or even this whole interchange, but he’s clearly responding to **A.R. Cane** ’s response: …which seems, even to me, a snarky way to shut off further comment – It says “Only an Idiot would not see this as the obvious situation” to someone who is asking a question, and to whom it is certainly NOT an obvious situation. It strikes me as a rude response. You could easily say the same thing without the snarkiness. [/QUOTE] OK, I’ll concede that it could be interpreted that way and I could have chosen my words more carefully. I _did_ mean to imply that shoving the door through the windshield was inconsequentail to any future examination of the car. **Ferns** kept insisting that there should be some detailed examination of the car and implying that there might be some conspiratorial plot going on, perhaps involving a police coverup. I was simply saying that accident investigations don’t normally involve such detailed forensic investigations and trying to put to rest any ideas that there was a conspiracy involved. I saw nothing in any of the news reports that would even remotely suggest such a thing. The participant, and spectators, in the street racing incident obviously acted in a careless, probably illegal, manner and they are the people responsible for the outcome. While it might be human nature to deny that they did something stupid and look for someone else to blame, the facts seem to indicate differently. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Tiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6de8d8/32.png) [@Mama\_Tiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Tiger)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-not-quite-right-about-that-crown-vic-that-plowed-into-the-spectators-in-md/438023/78 "2008-02-19T21:29:30Z")
I’ve seen interviews with people who live along this stretch of road, and apparently the constant street racing is something they’ve been trying to resolve, but even if they call 911 to report it, the racers keep spotters out plus listen to police band radios, so everything vanishes by the time the cops can get there. Maybe cameras would help; apparently nothing else they’ve tried has. I also saw an interview with an operator of a racing track in P.G. County, who says he regularly has special street legal hours when these folks can come do their racing on a proper course, with medical attention there and a safe place for the crowd. But for some reason the lure of doing it illegally on the streets overcomes any common sense. Frankly, I have virtually zero sympathy for those who were killed. They were doing a stupid, stupid thing and paid the price. A number of family members are crying for “justice” against the young man who hit them and apparently utterly failing to grasp the victims’ own complicity in their deaths. Which just means a bunch of annoying lawsuits. I sure hope that poor young man who hit the crowd gets some serious counseling because he’s going to need it. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-not-quite-right-about-that-crown-vic-that-plowed-into-the-spectators-in-md/438023/79 "2008-02-19T21:32:49Z")
[QUOTE=A.R. Cane] **Ferns** kept insisting that there should be some detailed examination of the car [/quote] I read a lot of the comments as being one step further, indicating his/her belief that there _would_ be a detailed examination. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2008, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-not-quite-right-about-that-crown-vic-that-plowed-into-the-spectators-in-md/438023/80 "2008-02-19T21:37:49Z")
[QUOTE=GorillaMan] How long has it been since they were available for general purchase, anyway? [/QUOTE] Private sales of the Crown Vic ended on June 21, 2007. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-not-quite-right-about-that-crown-vic-that-plowed-into-the-spectators-in-md/438023.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-not-quite-right-about-that-crown-vic-that-plowed-into-the-spectators-in-md/438023.md?page=5)