Something straight men should know about "gaydar"

Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports
41

Here’s what I said:

“Cecil’s assertion that gay mannerisms and speech patterns may be cultural, belies the fact they exist in young people who aren’t in contact with a gay community and seem to be there even before they come out.”

>>I only stated that such people exist. I have known such people, so this makes it a fact, at least to me.

>>Also I didn’t say “all countries”, I said “many (if not all)”

PriceGuy - Lighten up. No one so far (other than Mr. Dexer Haven) has provided any cites (including yourself) If we only accepted statements backed by cited studies, I think this would be a very short forum indeed.

If you’d like to disagree with what I’ve said (other than demanding cites), please do so. Oh, and cite away.

42

Well, I know a gay guy who looks like Arnold Schwarzenegger and talks like Steven Seagal. So I could say it’s a fact that gay guys are dumb bodybuilders.

You do see that “gay mannerisms” are only interesting if they occur in a larger percentage of gay people than of straight people, right? Of course there are effeminate gay men, it would be really strange otherwise. But are there more effeminate/lisping/whatever gay men than straight men, expressed in a percentage? That’s the question.

You’re doing the old “remember the hits - forget the misses” thing. When you meet an effeminate gay guy, that reinforces your notion that gays are effeminate. When you meet an effeminate straight guy or a butch gay guy, you forget it. And this even counts without the uncountable guys you meet without knowing their sexual orientation.

No, this is that forum. When someone makes a factual claim that’s beyond the realm of “generally accepted”, we expect that person to be able to back the claim up.

What claim of mine do you want me to back up with a cite?

43

“No, this is that forum. When someone makes a factual claim that’s beyond the realm of “generally accepted”, we expect that person to be able to back the claim up.”

>>Ok, then. Who is the arbitor of what is “generally accepted”? You?

“What claim of mine do you want me to back up with a cite?”

>>Since you haven’t provided any so far, how about this one:

“No-one does that in Sweden, man or woman.”

44

No, we do collectively. I think you’ll find pretty few respected members that’ll agree that it’s a fact that gays have the traits you say they have, without seeing a cite.

So you reread the thread, discovered that I hadn’t actually made any claim that I’d have to back up with a cite, and are now trying to save face. Brave attempt, but no-one’s falling for it. Of course, you’re going to rehash this over and over again, thus hoping to damage my credibility and obscure your own lack of evidence, so I’ll disarm you by simply retracting that statement. It’s uninteresting to the discussion anyway.

45

“So you reread the thread, discovered that I hadn’t actually made any claim that I’d have to back up with a cite, and are now trying to save face. Brave attempt, but no-one’s falling for it. Of course, you’re going to rehash this over and over again, thus hoping to damage my credibility and obscure your own lack of evidence, so I’ll disarm you by simply retracting that statement. It’s uninteresting to the discussion anyway.”

>>I guess then you made a claim you don’t have a cite for. But you claim you didn’t need one (your determination) anyway and yet you withdraw it.

>>I don’t have any problem with people expressing their opinons based on experience or reason (including yours). It’s just really annoying having someone constantly posting “Cite?” “Cite?” without really contributing much to the topic. (As you’ve discovered)

46

It’s also quite annoying having someone present unsupported opinion as fact.

47

Explain how my statement that no-one in Sweden looks to their spouses for permission to speak has anything to do with the point you’re making. As you know, it has nothing to do with your point. Just in case, I hereby publicly admit that I was talking completely and utterly out of my ass when I said that no-one in Sweden looks to their spouses for permission to speak. I haven’t interviewed every Swede and so have no right to make a statement like that. Shame on me.

Now, if you do the same, I’ll stop asking for a cite. See how this works?

Nor do I. You stated your opinions as fact, which is different.

No, I haven’t. That’s you. Don’t get us mixed up.

48

You’re forgetting: now gay = weird, which accurately describes any single man who is not romantically active and successful. Of course you’re gay. :rolleyes:

Seriously, I agree with you, and think this is one of the lamest reasons for assuming someone to be gay. When I was single I went for LONG stretches without dating anyone. If a man isn’t involved with a woman, we should wait for positive evidence before assuming he’s gay.

49

If a guy kissed a guy does that count as positive evidence to “assume he’s gay”? Maybe we should ask him and if he says yes then assume that he was telling the truth?

But on another tack. We see butch women, some of whom may be homosexual. We see camp men, some of whom may be homosexual.

But we shouldn’t really say that men with limp wrists are effeminate because not all women have limp wrists. Surely by calling camp men effeminate you are stereotyping women?

50

I’m gonna go way out on a limb and guess that Spectre meant that in the absence of obvious clues like kissing guys, you shouldn’t assume someone is gay because he is single. At that point, you’re not assuming very much.

51

How bout we all just not care whether someone is homosexual or not?

52

Hijack:
Priceguy: Who said “The plural of anecdote isn’t data”

53

Not a freaking clue, I’m afraid. But I’m pretty sure he was wiser than I.

I heard it somewhere on this board, so feel free to ask around. Someone’s bound to know where it comes from.

54

Irishman said:
"lazybumcus said:
quote:

Another set of friends questioned the 31 yr old before he let on, but the clue of not being involved with anyone at 31 was also a clue.

So now I’m gay? That’s news to me.

Not dating any women could be a sign of being gay, or it could be other things, like being shy/insecure, or having non-compatible religious views with the bulk of society."
Well, I know the guy and I don’t know you, and he’s a handsome man and intelligent. Sure, he is very religious. That’s part of the reason why he condemned himself. He is also interestsed in family, but oddly enough, he didn’t have a family, no wife, no kids, no nothing. These are unfair clues. Mannerisms are the topic of the day, so it’s more important that he was unable to hide his gay mannerisms, which he desperately tried to do!

That brings up another problem I’ve had with most of the posts on this subject. They tipify gay behavior (and not mannerisms) to certain actions that I would not consider gay or straight, like body building and being materialistic. Gay men have male bodies and are attracted to male bodies… duh, of course they’ll want to make their bodies attractive to gay males. And commercialism, the bane of my existence, produces superficial materialism.

-the Insight of Cite

55

Straight men are attracted to women, but they don’t all get into bodybuilding. There are multiple stereotypical gay ‘characters,’ this is just another one.

56

I suppose you can’t know anything about anyone, for sure, unless you ask them, and are absolutely sure they’re telling the truth. People are going to make assumptions, it’s part of human nature. If I saw two guys kissing or holding hands, then, yeah, I’d assume they were gay, though I could conceivably be wrong. What I take issue with is the assumption based on the negative: when people assume that because a man is 30 and single, he must be gay because a straight man would be married or otherwise in a heterosexual relationship.

57

Many sites (example) attribute it to economist Roger Brinner.

58

Yeah buddy, you must be gay if you don’t want to spend every waking second, for example, in a perpetual and futile attempt to figure out if this is one of the days when the other person will transform suddenly and without warning into a raging volcano, her mouth a flamethrower spewing forth scorching, venomous, chronological lists of your failures and shortcomings. Or spend every waking second waiting for the already beautiful creature to finish applying cosmetic products and putting on different outfits.

But I guess homosexual men might do some of the same type thing, so there you are. You might as well be whatever you are. (BTW, I was raised Catholic, which is a fairly common religion in our society, and the priests by and large don’t date women. But what religion is it that both discourages dating women and is “incompatible with the bulk of society?”)

59

Gay man here…

I came out late in life (32). When I did, nobody I told had ever guessed it previously. It wasn’t due to any deception on my part. I just happen to like sports, play drums, dress unfashionably, and I don’t speak with any “lisp” that I am aware of. Even other gay people have told me that they never would have guessed.

The point is that it just isn’t always possible to tell. Interesting that so many people are hung up with trying to tell though (and how many of those trying are straight).

I guess my question would be, why does it matter so much? And why assume anything about anyone?

60

Ok, I have to respond to this, as I’ve always been fascinated by this subject. And I always have long drawn out curiosity conversations with gay friends, and all of my not so gay friends too, I love talking about sex, so maybe my post may be valid to yall. Either way it’s long…and hi I’m new, just stumbled across this site.

It’s been in my experience there really isn’t a sure way to tell who’s gay and who’s not by stereotypical mannerisms. Unless they are engaged in couple activity, I really can’t tell who’s what, unless I truly know them.

I have a brother that is very effiminate (in my opinion) and he’s married. That uber feminine speech, all those soft qualities, he was even a cheerleader in high school. He’s been with several women. He settled and married. I lived with him for a while and our roomate seemed somewhat a little sensitive too. He always had different girls in bed, and now he’s married. Two very feminine guys, one household, but they had sex with girls, so I’ll take it at face value. It could be repression, skeletons in the closet, whatever, but in that essence why bother to seek out girls for mere casual sex right?

I worked with a gay guy that was VERY much in the stereotypical categorization, however his mate was more masculine than most straight guys. I have an uncle that is gay, he’s not feminine at all really. His partner a little bit, but not particularly.

I’ve met guys that thought they were gay, tried it for a while and ended up with females, or perhaps there is no distinction in bi tendencies, some were feminine in mannerisms, others were not. It’s really confusing. There are no typical distinctions when it comes to human sexuality. And people, especially in their early 20’s are merely experimental, and not sure what they’re looking for. Just something right? I wonder if people ever really figure it out. I actually know a woman that was with a man for 20 years, she’s 47, and in a relationship with a woman now.

This is coming from a female by the way.

My boyfriend is a softy. He has a slight lisp. At first he came across as so shy, I mistaked it for him being gay. But sex would obviously be a tell tale sign of sexual preference right? So in essence he is heterosexual just about every night, for two years. He’s comfortable around gay guys, as we do have gay friends, but who knows? But his head turns when he see’s a beautiful girl so sex and that is enough evidence for me that he does find women attractive. So even if I question whether he may be bi or not it really doesn’t matter, so long as we’re happy together.

I mean there have only been a few gays that I’ve met, that absolutely knew they were gay by the time they hit puberty. And yes, these few have seemed more feminine than I am, but that’s not enough knowledge on my part to stereotype the whole spectrum. Or to claim it cpmes down to genetics. Others found that being with girls didn’t feel natural to them after experimentation. Some have tried it once or twice, and found they were more happy with females. And another guy I know actually fell in love with a transvestite and did have sexual experiences with that person, and he was with girls before and he’s been with girls since. To be honest I really don’t see definate mannerisms, as I really don’t see definitive lines between who is gay and who isn’t.

I’ve been attracted to females in the past, but I love my boyfriend. So confusingly I can’t really draw the line for myself, and I think a lot of people are like that, I actually think it’s quite natural. I do however notice that homophobes tend to act as though they’re super masculine. And Hollywood loves to throw out that super feminine gay stereotype, but when you actually know gay guys they don’t seem so different from straight.

Maybe as I get older, I might have a revelation or something, but not all gay guys are feminine, not all lesbians are masculine, and not all bi’s fit into type either, and if there truly is completely straight in the world… Everyone is different. But really it comes down to who you love, and how you’re willing to express your love to them. (and that’s a contradiction, b/c casual sex is merely sexual attraction). I get so lost…and everyone reading this is probably lost too…