# Something that always bothered me about the X-Men **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 27, 2018, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-that-always-bothered-me-about-the-x-men/816834 "2018-06-27T13:42:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-that-always-bothered-me-about-the-x-men/816834/81 "2018-06-29T01:35:00Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Ah, gotcha. > > Again, because prejudice isn’t rational. Why was so much of America’s history marked by white people’s hatred of black people? Black people don’t have superpowers. They’re exactly like white people in every significant way. Why were they the target of so much racism? > > Because prejudice isn’t rational. > > Yes, repeatedly, and at length. I mean, you literally have an organization called “The Brotherhood of Evil Mutants,” who explicitly tell people that they intend to wipe out humanity, specifically because they’re mutant > > You lost me there. > > They aren’t running the same game, is the point. Magic and mutants and aliens are all distinct things in the Marvel universe, and the people in the Marvel universe understand that these are distinct things, because they’re standard features of the world in which they grew up. > > Imagine an alien watching a movie about Nazis, with no context for who they are or why they’re the bad guys, and he assumes it’s because they’re running around using guns on everyone. “Guns make you a bad person on Earth,” he concludes - but then he watches a John Wayne movie, where the guy running around with a gun is a good guy. “This doesn’t make any sense! Why would they hate one group of people with guns, but revere this other person with a gun?” > > That’s the mistake you’re making. You’re assuming that it’s the superpowers that make people hate mutants. It’s not. It’s prejudice - and like real-world prejudice, it’s not rational. Alright but what I meant was I was a reader of the x-men books as well as other marvels, and that wasn’t part of the deal when that world existed, then. It was more like realism in comics. That was marvels identity as a company and probably the reason we are talking about them now. -The citizens in x-men hated the x-men, the citizens in FF liked the FF. There was never any way to make a logical or real distinction between the two types of people. It was a contradiction to me because marvel was the realism company. I get it’s a straw man for irrationality. But there are too many “rationales” in getting to the explanation for me to stay with it. Of course, I am not this generation marvel. It makes a difference not having a stake. ---
**Author:** ![dzeiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/46a35a/32.png) [@dzeiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dzeiger)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-that-always-bothered-me-about-the-x-men/816834/82 "2018-06-29T01:44:46Z")
There are enough mutants in the X-Men to make fully viable countries (or were? Not following close enough to know if the House of M stuff got retconned), how many magic users are there really? How many radiation-accident supers are there? Magic users, radiation accidents and other similar “powered” people might be dangerous on an individual level, but mutants are dangerous in the way modern politicians demonize immigrant groups–they’re going to infiltrate and take over our way of life, etc. ---
**Author:** ![dorvann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df705f/32.png) [@dorvann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorvann)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-that-always-bothered-me-about-the-x-men/816834/83 "2018-06-29T02:08:12Z")
> [@dzeiger](#): > > There are enough mutants in the X-Men to make fully viable countries (or were? Not following close enough to know if the House of M stuff got retconned), how many magic users are there really? How many radiation-accident supers are there? > > Magic users, radiation accidents and other similar “powered” people might be dangerous on an individual level, but mutants are dangerous in the way modern politicians demonize immigrant groups–they’re going to infiltrate and take over our way of life, etc. In both cases it could be argued that immigrants and mutants aren’t really a problem–they are simply a scapegoat and a rallying point for politicians and political groups to take power. So whether the allegations against the groups are true or not; or are logical is not really important to the people most responsible for them. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-that-always-bothered-me-about-the-x-men/816834/84 "2018-06-29T13:13:27Z")
> [@dzeiger](#): > > There are enough mutants in the X-Men to make fully viable countries (or were? Not following close enough to know if the House of M stuff got retconned), how many magic users are there really? How many radiation-accident supers are there? After Scarlet Witch’s “No More Mutants”, there were \< 200 mutants. There are way more than 200 other-caused superpowered people on Marvel Earth. Subsequently, more mutants started showing up again. Then an unknown number started dying off from the terrigen cloud that caused there to be just as many if not more super-powered Inhumans. Currently, there are enough Inhumans to make their own sovereign nation, and a large number but not collectively organized number of mutants. Both mutants _and_ Inhumans are viewed with prejudice that is out of proportion to what the other superpowered humans receive. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-that-always-bothered-me-about-the-x-men/816834/85 "2018-06-29T13:29:30Z")
But why don’t people hate Spider-Man for being a mutant? Sure, he’s not one, but how does anyone know that? ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-that-always-bothered-me-about-the-x-men/816834/86 "2018-06-29T13:32:45Z")
The House of M thing was an alternate reality that the Scarlet Witch created where almost everyone was a mutant and non-mutants were hated minorities. It wasn’t retconned away, but it was undone by the Scarlet Witch. But there was once a nation of mutants with a population of around 16 million IIRC, but it was wiped out by a Super Sentinal created by the re-embodied ghost of Charles Xavier’s evil twin sister that he killed in the womb. (Marvel comics are weird.) ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-that-always-bothered-me-about-the-x-men/816834/87 "2018-06-29T14:04:21Z")
I haven’t followed comics for awhile now, so I don’t know how things are now. But as **Steve MB** mentioned, Spider-Man had an image problem for quite a bit of his history. The _Daily Bugle_ was constantly publishing editorials about how weird and dangerous and untrustworthy he was, and that affected public opinion. He was never really universally “adored” the way that, say, Captain America or the Fantastic Four were. So the separation between “adored” and “feared” was never quite as clear-cut as we’re assuming. At one time, I was very much on-board with the criticism that it doesn’t make sense for people to hate mutants, but not other heroes. Over time, I’ve become more persuaded toward the point of view that **Miller** is espousing. Yes, it doesn’t make strict logical sense. But prejudice _doesn’t_ make strict logical sense. It’s very much the case in our own world that very same qualities may be admired in one group, but a cause for disdain in another. Think of the “shrewd businessman” versus the “money-grubbing Jewish merchant,” to name a popular example. So why shouldn’t the “powerful superhero” versus the “dangerous mutant” also be a thing? ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-that-always-bothered-me-about-the-x-men/816834/88 "2018-06-29T15:10:23Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > The House of M thing was an alternate reality that the Scarlet Witch created where almost everyone was a mutant and non-mutants were hated minorities. It wasn’t retconned away, but it was undone by the Scarlet Witch… The “undoing” of House of M is where the Scarlet Witch reduced the total number of mutants to \< 200. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-that-always-bothered-me-about-the-x-men/816834/89 "2018-06-29T16:40:11Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > But why don’t people hate Spider-Man for being a mutant? Sure, he’s not one, but how does anyone know that? They are reading the letters page? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-that-always-bothered-me-about-the-x-men/816834/90 "2018-06-29T16:52:43Z")
In a previous thread about this someone explained that the reason people hate mutants and not other super powered individuals like spider-man or the fantastic four is because mutants are a human evolution, meaning replacement. Humans are not scared of being replaced by one off accidents or high tech gadgets or aliens, but mutants could and probably would eventually completely replace humans. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-that-always-bothered-me-about-the-x-men/816834/91 "2018-06-29T17:30:20Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > In a previous thread about this someone explained that the reason people hate mutants and not other super powered individuals like spider-man or the fantastic four is because mutants are a human evolution, meaning replacement. Humans are not scared of being replaced by one off accidents or high tech gadgets or aliens, but mutants could and probably would eventually completely replace humans. That distinction was not apparent to me at least when the books started. They were tryiing to add social relevance, and I think it’s a good idea to follow the bigotry storytelling angle. It was a Must-do for the marvel company based on their history of being “real” But it must be curated with some retro fitting and explaining. It really is a description of the “irrational”, because it seems that it’s going to be tech and robots that are the pandoras box. If only we had the time to destroy everything by evolution. What a luxury. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2018, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-that-always-bothered-me-about-the-x-men/816834/92 "2018-06-29T21:58:15Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > One thing I’ve seen some writers do - Grant Morrison comes to mind - is postulate that the vast majority of mutants actually don’t have useful powers. They just look [weird](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/d/d5/Ugly_John_%28Earth-616%29_from_New_X-Men_Vol_1_115.png/revision/latest?cb=20141102024119) [and](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/6/64/Robert_Herman_%28Earth-616%29_from_Extraordinary_X-Men_Vol_1_8_001.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160701114614) [gross](https://i.annihil.us/u/prod/marvel//universe3zx/images/4/41/Beak.jpg). I think this helps the metaphor a lot - people aren’t reacting to them because of their powers, which a lot of non-mutants have, but because they look like monsters. Hmm. I’m not well-versed enough in Marvel to know that. No powers at all? I don’t know how much that explains it, though. There are people who due to genetics, birth defect, or injuries look weird and gross, and while people sometimes stare or are uncomfortable, I’ve never heard of, say, a burn victim being disowned by their families. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-that-always-bothered-me-about-the-x-men/816834/93 "2018-06-30T02:15:34Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > Hmm. I’m not well-versed enough in Marvel to know that. No powers at all? > > I don’t know how much that explains it, though. > > There are people who due to genetics, birth defect, or injuries look weird and gross, and while people sometimes stare or are uncomfortable, I’ve never heard of, say, a burn victim being disowned by their families. People with severe physical deformities, particularly facial deformities, are subject to some pretty vicious prejudice today. Older cultures often practiced infanticide on children with deformities. And I don’t mean hunter-gatherer tribes who had limited resources. The Romans drowned children with harelips in the Tiber, because they thought it was a sign of possession by evil spirits. ---
**Author:** ![dorvann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df705f/32.png) [@dorvann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorvann)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-that-always-bothered-me-about-the-x-men/816834/94 "2018-06-30T03:46:59Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > People with severe physical deformities, particularly facial deformities, are subject to some pretty vicious prejudice today. Older cultures often practiced infanticide on children with deformities. And I don’t mean hunter-gatherer tribes who had limited resources. The Romans drowned children with harelips in the Tiber, because they thought it was a sign of possession by evil spirits. Even today people with albinism are persecuted pretty severely in parts of Africa. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution\_of\_people\_with\_albinism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_people_with_albinism) ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-that-always-bothered-me-about-the-x-men/816834/95 "2018-06-30T04:17:33Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Why do the marvel universe citizens hate mutants but not others? Is it depicted in any way? [Sublime](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sublime_(Marvel_Comics)). Basically, Sublime is a sapient bacteria species that inhabits humanity. Many mutants are immune to infection by Sublime, therefore it regards them as a threat and influences humanity to have irrational hatred towards them. > [@Scumpup](#): > > That series was disgusting. The numbers of rapes and sexual assaults was off the charts. Nothing lastingly good happened to anyone, ever. it was like there was a contest among the participating authors to see who could torture their characters the most. That was a common problem with the shared world series that were popular for a while. I recall one author describing the problem as being that in any group of authors there’s always going to be some who think that Dark and Edgy is True Art, and any time they take a turn in a shared world series they’ll drag everybody else’s characters down into the morass. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-that-always-bothered-me-about-the-x-men/816834/96 "2018-06-30T13:05:06Z")
Wow, way to destroy the social relevance. People are only bigoted because they’ve got an infection? No, people are bigoted because people are people. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-that-always-bothered-me-about-the-x-men/816834/97 "2018-06-30T16:35:41Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Wow, way to destroy the social relevance. People are only bigoted because they’ve got an infection? No, people are bigoted because people are people. But it also sounds like a good way to bring the “public health” factor of HIV and discrimination into the story. We don’t know who has HIV but it is definitely an inflection for bigotry. That seems like a fairly good rationale. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-that-always-bothered-me-about-the-x-men/816834/98 "2018-06-30T16:49:18Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > But it also sounds like a good way to bring the “public health” factor of HIV and discrimination into the story. We don’t know who has HIV but it is definitely an inflection for bigotry. That seems like a fairly good rationale. Except that, as I understand it, the Sublime infection wasn’t something that “normal people” are bigoted against – it was presented as a driving reason why (infected) normal people were persecuting mutants. ---
**Author:** ![MarvinKitFox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ba0ec/32.png) [@MarvinKitFox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarvinKitFox)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-that-always-bothered-me-about-the-x-men/816834/99 "2018-06-30T21:48:00Z")
> [@Atomic\_Alex](#): > > … started showing how he could freeze water with a thought or lift a truck with ease my reaction … Historically, the community’s reaction to this sort of thing has been to burn the offender at the stake (USA), Drawing and Quartering (UK), The Rack and hot Irons (Europe), Stoning to death (Middle east). More recently, these extreme reactions have mellowed a bit, and forced Exorcisms (for the superstitious) or prefrontal Lobotomies and/or Electroshock therapy (for the scientific-minded) has been more the norm. And you complain about some mild social shunning? ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2018, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-that-always-bothered-me-about-the-x-men/816834/100 "2018-06-30T22:33:44Z")
> [@MarvinKitFox](#): > > Historically, the community’s reaction to this sort of thing has been to burn the offender at the stake (USA), > Drawing and Quartering (UK), > The Rack and hot Irons (Europe), > Stoning to death (Middle east). > > More recently, these extreme reactions have mellowed a bit, and forced Exorcisms (for the superstitious) or prefrontal Lobotomies and/or Electroshock therapy (for the scientific-minded) has been more the norm. > > And you complain about some mild social shunning? If someone demonstrated the ability to lift a truck in our reality none of those things would happen in the 21st century First World. They _especially_ wouldn’t happen in a reality where such abilities are known fact and not even particularly out of the ordinary. I also don’t think being disowned by your family or treated with horror and shame is ‘mild social shunning’. I’m not a comic reader but from reading the comments in this thread from those who are that description wouldn’t apply to how mutants are treated in the Marvel universe. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-that-always-bothered-me-about-the-x-men/816834.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-that-always-bothered-me-about-the-x-men/816834.md?page=6)