# Something where aliens WIN? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 9, 2003, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-where-aliens-win/174081 "2003-05-09T10:53:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Swoop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b77776/32.png) [@Swoop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swoop)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-where-aliens-win/174081/1 "2003-05-09T10:53:22Z")
Has there ever been a production (book, film whatever) where the usual ID4 type scenario of having some aliens kick human ass ends in the aliens actually succeeding? ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Nader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Darth\_Nader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Nader)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-where-aliens-win/174081/2 "2003-05-09T11:04:22Z")
**Invasion of the Body Snatchers** (I’m thinking more of the remake than the first one…) ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-where-aliens-win/174081/3 "2003-05-09T11:45:15Z")
Depends a bit on how you define a win. In the “Alien” novels and the Dark Horse comics the Aliens take over the Earth and all but exterminate Earth based humans. In the Starcraft computer games at the end of the last instalment the alien hordes had kicked human butt and were persuing the remains of the fleet back to Earth. There are several productions where humans have already been defeated and are living on as slaves, rebels etc. (Planet of the Apes, Terminator, Matrix) I guess that generally it’s tough to write a novel/screenplay that consists of the heroes losing despite valiant efforts. It just doesn’t make for a good read. There’s something about human psychology that demands that the hero make it back to the normal world. Without this script piece the story lacks punch. Can you imagine “War of the Worlds” where the Martians won? The ending would lack punch. It would lack any sort of resolution. Even if every last human were destroyed we’d be left wondering what happens next. In those cases where the Aliens do ‘win’ the ending seems to be universally left up in the air rather than truly resolved in favour of the littlee green men. ---
**Author:** ![Pabitel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bbce88/32.png) [@Pabitel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pabitel)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-where-aliens-win/174081/4 "2003-05-09T11:48:39Z")
Not sure if this is exactly what you are looking for but “The Madness Season” by C.S. Friedman has a really wierd twist on this whole topic. The ending is rather ambiguous though so I’m not sure who “won” ---
**Author:** ![Back\_Lot\_Brawl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cc9497/32.png) [@Back\_Lot\_Brawl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Back_Lot_Brawl)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-where-aliens-win/174081/5 "2003-05-09T11:59:06Z")
Does the Simpsons episode where Kodos and Kang run for president count? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-where-aliens-win/174081/6 "2003-05-09T12:03:24Z")
There are plenty of SF novels in which aliens “win”, at least for a time. Edgar Rice Burroughs’ **The Moon Men** has Earth conquered by aliens from the moon. The TV miniseries **V** was all about resistance against alien conquerors. In H.G. Wells’ **The War of the Worlds** the Martians pretty clearlt beat the earth people, until they themselves are taken out by bacteria. I haven’t read the series, but my understanding is that the Tripods books are set in a world where the Martians don’t die. (Marvel Comics “Killraveb” series from the early 1970s is based on this concept.) Then there’s Jack Chalker’s **Web of the Chozen** in which transformed humans set out to conquer human space, and succeed. There are plenty of other examples. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-where-aliens-win/174081/7 "2003-05-09T12:08:22Z")
In Arthur C. Clarke’s **Childhood’s End** , the aliens help destroy Earth, but it’s probably not what you have in mind. Gerald Kirsch’s [Men Without Bones](http://www.scifi.com/scifiction/classics/classics_archive/kersh/kersh1.html), sort of. ---
**Author:** ![brianmelendez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/65b543/32.png) [@brianmelendez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brianmelendez)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-where-aliens-win/174081/8 "2003-05-09T12:44:08Z")
Mike Resnick’s book [_Birthright: The Book of Man_](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1570900442/qid=1052484524/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/104-2438701-3253507?v=glance&s=books&n=507846) ends with the last humans being defeated by an alliance of alien races. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-where-aliens-win/174081/9 "2003-05-09T12:47:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CalMeacham \* > \*\*I haven’t read the series, but my understanding is that the Tripods books are set in a world where the Martians don’t die. \*\* Not altogether accurate, although the scenarios aren’t dissimilar. Also, the Tripods are defeated in the final book when their city dome is shattered by an explosion, letting the lethal (to them) atmosphere of Earth in. ---
**Author:** ![refusal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ac91a4/32.png) [@refusal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/refusal)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-where-aliens-win/174081/10 "2003-05-09T13:02:29Z")
In **The Day the Earth Stood Still** the aliens come to earth demanding world peace, and they win. Don’t they? Ray Bradbury’s **The Martian Chronicles** isn’t exactly a convincing victory for either side: most of the Martians are killed, but most of the humans end up packing it in and going home. If you view it as a collection of short stories, there are a number of tales where the Martians are clearly triumphant. (However, Bradbury possibly viewed the humans as villains.) Aren’t there some zombie movies where the all-conquering hordes of the undead are created by space radiation? Doesn’t that make them honorary aliens? ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-where-aliens-win/174081/11 "2003-05-09T13:11:40Z")
John Varley has a whole series of book set in a future where godlike aliens came to earth and said, “Okay, everybody outta the pool!”; everybody’s living on the other planets and space habitats. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-where-aliens-win/174081/12 "2003-05-09T13:29:25Z")
A number of the 1990s “Outer Limits” episodes ended with the aliens getting the upper hand. ---
**Author:** ![Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-where-aliens-win/174081/13 "2003-05-09T13:43:00Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **refusal** _: > **Aren’t there some zombie movies where the all-conquering hordes of the undead are created by space radiation? Doesn’t that make them honorary aliens?** Depending on how much you want to read into it, the Unholy Trilogy of zombie flicks, Romero’s Night, Dawn and Day, can be said to blame the zombies on space radiation. In the original Night, one of the news reports talk about a space probe returning from (Venus?) another planet, to earth, accompanied by an unknown type of radiation. It’s the only attempt (and never explored, in detail) to explain the sudden, mass rising from the dead. In **Night of the Creeps** , a fun campy zombie flick, the walking dead are powered not by radiation, but by extraterrestrial brain worms. So to speak. The Comet Zombies in **Night of the Comet** weren’t your traditional flesh eating walkin’ cadavers, but they were created by radiation from the tail of a comet. [sub]I know, I know, it’s right in the title…[/sub] Aside from **White Zombie** and **The Serpent and the Rainbow** (which didn’t actually have traditional zombies, either) how many zombie flicks _didn’t_ rely on outerspace gobbledygook? [sub]Well, apart from the **Return of the Living Dead** series, o’course…[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-where-aliens-win/174081/14 "2003-05-09T14:13:50Z")
Well, in movies like “Xtro” and “Lifeforece,” aliens come to Earth, kill a lot of people at will, and get away pretty much unscathed at the end. Does that count as an alien “win”? Or do the aliens have to conquer the Earth completely. ---
**Author:** ![Skip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@Skip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skip)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-where-aliens-win/174081/15 "2003-05-09T14:19:14Z")
At the end of _John Carpenter’s The Thing_, the alien is destroyed but the human’s sure as hell don’t win. It’s just McReady waiting to die in the cold basically… ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-where-aliens-win/174081/16 "2003-05-09T15:29:01Z")
In Larry Niven’s short story “What Can You Say About Chocolate Covered Manhole Covers” (I’m not kidding), the aliens unquestionably win. In fact, we never even _see_ one of the aliens. One of their android flunkies wins, and makes it pretty clear that the best humans can aspire to is to be good slaves…once they’ve evolved a bit. _Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy_ should probably be mentioned here as well, since the Vogons destroyed Earth at the beginning of the book. Only two humans survived, IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![Archergal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Archergal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Archergal)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-where-aliens-win/174081/17 "2003-05-09T15:37:18Z")
In Greg Bear’s **The Forge of God** , the aliens not only win, they destroy the earth. I couldn’t read all of it because it was very upsetting to me. In Octavia Butler’s **Xenogenesis** trilogy, humans actually had pretty much destroyed the earth, but they were rescued by aliens. The only catch was, the rescued humans had to give up a lot of their humanity (i.e., accept alien DNA) in order to reproduce. This one kinda bothered me too, but it was VERY well written. Octavia Butler really makes me think. And then there was that Sci-Fi channel series **Invasion: Earth**. It was sort of an ID4 set-up, but the humans _definitely_ didn’t get the upper hand. I don’t think they actually _showed_ the aliens winning, but that was kinda the outcome you were left expecting. I like it better when humans win, but I’m not sure it’s a realistic expectation all the time. ---
**Author:** ![tanstaafl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba8739/32.png) [@tanstaafl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanstaafl)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-where-aliens-win/174081/18 "2003-05-09T16:14:29Z")
I almost agree with **Forge of God** except that some humans _do_ survive (with some help from some other aliens) and go on to kick some alien butt in **Anvil of Stars**. **Forge** was the better book of the two though. Also by Greg Bear is **Blood Music** in which humanity pretty much gets replaced by what is more or less an intelligent virus. It was man-made though. The short story is much better than the novel. Gordon Dickson’s story _Enter a Pilgrim_ has humanity subjugated under alien rule but he expanded it to a novel in which the humans win in the end, so that may not count. **Childhood’s End** by Arthur C. Clarke has the aliens responsible for the end of life as we know it, but it isn’t exactly a “defeat”. I know I’ve read a few other shorts where the humans lose but can’t think of any titles at the moment. Let me think on it a bit and see what else I can come up with. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-where-aliens-win/174081/19 "2003-05-09T16:23:44Z")
I believe the name of the short story is The Screwfly Solution. It ends with the protaganist seeing an alien, and one of the best last lines in sci-fi: > [@](#): > > I think it was a real estate agent. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2003, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-where-aliens-win/174081/20 "2003-05-09T17:07:37Z")
Riff Raff and Magenta won in _Rocky Horror_. Of course, that was kind of an internal mutiny. But it worked out for the humans. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/something-where-aliens-win/174081.md?page=2)