# Sometimes people don't get the bloody obvious **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 26, 2010, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sometimes-people-dont-get-the-bloody-obvious/551562 "2010-08-26T17:57:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sometimes-people-dont-get-the-bloody-obvious/551562/61 "2010-08-27T19:18:30Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > “Oh, so you want the system to look through the screen and see whether or not it is a tech who is clicking the link, and if it is a tech ask them to log in with account and password so the system knows who they are, but if the system sees that it’s just an end user to not make them log in?” _Now_ you got it! And we need it by Monday. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sometimes-people-dont-get-the-bloody-obvious/551562/62 "2010-08-27T19:24:57Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > > [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > > > You look stressed. Can I offer you small fried chicken salad? > > It’s just a regular salad, but with minature chickens in it. Mmm, egg salad. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sometimes-people-dont-get-the-bloody-obvious/551562/63 "2010-08-27T19:29:22Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > “That web interface you set up for the database is cool but it’s not letting the tech guys get to where they can edit the repair tickets. Please make it so that they can.” > > “That’s because the web interface is not _designed_ to be used by the tech guys. You had me set it up so that it does not require a logon, just goes straight in. Therefore it assumes the person using the system is an end user and they are restricted to end user privileges.” > > “Well I don’t want the end users to have to log in, but I want our tech guys to be able to do what they need to do.” > > “I can give you a different URL that the tech guys would use, which will go straight to the database and therefore require a logon, and the regular URL that’s on the corporate info page will still go to the passthru data file that has an auto-enter account & password as End User Guest.” > > :: I do that :: > > “The tech guys can’t get to where they can edit the repair tickets.” > > “Show me what they are doing?” > > (The tech guys are gong to the corporate info page and clicking the regular link.) > > “The tech guys need to use this different URL to get in, and input account and password” > > “I need the tech guys to be able to click the regular URL link, they say it is too much trouble to type in a different URL in the address bar when they are sitting at some end user’s computer trying to do repairs” > > “Well I could put the tech URL link on the corporate page alongside the end user URL” > > “No we don’t want that showing. Just make it so the regular URL link will let them get in to edit tickets” > > “Oh, so you want the system to look through the screen and see whether or not it is a tech who is clicking the link, and if it is a tech ask them to log in with account and password so the system knows who they are, but if the system sees that it’s just an end user to not make them log in?” > > :smack::smack::smack: Ok. Have the regular web interface accept anyone without a password, but if you try to edit repair tickets, your keystrokes are saved to a mirror page that doesn’t actually change anything unless you finish by entering a special “save changes” password. What do I win? ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sometimes-people-dont-get-the-bloody-obvious/551562/64 "2010-08-27T19:48:17Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Ok. Have the regular web interface accept anyone without a password, but if you try to edit repair tickets, your keystrokes are saved to a mirror page that doesn’t actually change anything unless you finish by entering a special “save changes” password. > > What do I win? If AHunter’s boss picks up on this, probably you’ve just won a boot to the head. (from AHunter, not the boss.) ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sometimes-people-dont-get-the-bloody-obvious/551562/65 "2010-08-27T19:52:41Z")
> [@](#): > > You look stressed. Can I offer you small fried chicken salad? > [@tdn](#): > > > [@Munch](#): > > > > It’s just a regular salad, but with minature chickens in it. > > Mmm, egg salad. \*\* quietly sobbing with laughter \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sometimes-people-dont-get-the-bloody-obvious/551562/66 "2010-08-27T19:55:18Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Ok. Have the regular web interface accept anyone without a password, but if you try to edit repair tickets, your keystrokes are saved to a mirror page that doesn’t actually change anything unless you finish by entering a special “save changes” password. > > What do I win? No, what you do is have the special tech login URL link on the home page, but make it invisible so it doesn’t show to the end user. If the tech guys start pissing you off, move the link at random. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sometimes-people-dont-get-the-bloody-obvious/551562/67 "2010-08-27T19:55:47Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > > [@Munch](#): > > > > It’s just a regular salad, but with minature chickens in it. > > Mmm, egg salad. For the win! Wait, you can’t win your own thread! I call shenanigans. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sometimes-people-dont-get-the-bloody-obvious/551562/68 "2010-08-27T20:00:16Z")
Apparently, logical fallacies fall into this category. I was having a discussion with someone who was just unable to make a logically consistent argument to support his point. A lot of his arguments would end up boiling down to various well known logical fallacies and, as they would show up, I’d point them out and tell him he may want to reconsider how he’s making his argument. His response was along the lines of “logical fallacies don’t apply to me, you just can’t counter my points.” Umm… no, logical fallacies DO apply to you and I can’t counter your points because you haven’t made any because they’re not logically sound. I did finally get him to actually look up some of them and some of his reasons for why they were okay to use were just bizarre. For instance “I don’t recognize Chewbacca Defense as a logical fallacy because I don’t like South Park.” Or, perhaps most amusing for it’s irony, when I pointed out that one of his points was just a tu quoque (and a false accusation at that) “Yeah, well you use logical fallacies too, so tu quoque right back at you.” I can understand that these sorts of things aren’t necessarily intuitive, but I would think when they’re explained they ought to be pretty easy to understand why they don’t support an argument. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sometimes-people-dont-get-the-bloody-obvious/551562/69 "2010-08-27T20:07:54Z")
> [@descamisado](#): > > > [@tdn](#): > > > > Mmm, egg salad. > > For the win! > > Wait, you can’t win your own thread! > > I call shenanigans. Thanks, guys. I ended up with that after I tried desperately to craft something like “chick food.” ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2010, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sometimes-people-dont-get-the-bloody-obvious/551562/70 "2010-08-27T20:11:36Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > I did finally get him to actually look up some of them and some of his reasons for why they were okay to use were just bizarre. For instance “I don’t recognize Chewbacca Defense as a logical fallacy because I don’t like South Park.” Or, perhaps most amusing for it’s irony, when I pointed out that one of his points was just a tu quoque (and a false accusation at that) “Yeah, well you use logical fallacies too, so tu quoque right back at you.” And just exactly how much time did you spend arguing with this guy? I think it would have been right around the time he said those things that I would have admitted defeat. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2010, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sometimes-people-dont-get-the-bloody-obvious/551562/71 "2010-08-28T04:11:36Z")
Admitting defeat has negative value. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2010, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sometimes-people-dont-get-the-bloody-obvious/551562/72 "2010-08-28T04:45:57Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Ok. Have the regular web interface accept anyone without a password, but if you try to edit repair tickets, your keystrokes are saved to a mirror page that doesn’t actually change anything unless you finish by entering a special “save changes” password. > > What do I win? Nope, wouldn’t fly. Because then ordinary end users would be able to READ the repair tickets and would only be prompted for a login if they tried to make changes to them. So it would have to be a way for someone logged in as an ordinary end user to log out and back in as a tech, except that a) It would have to be totally invisible and undiscoverable by anyone who isn’t a tech but b) It would have to be easily discernable and hassle-free and effortless and transparently obvious in every way to the techs who can’t be arsed to do anything as complicated as modifying the URL in their freaking address bar. I also once had a computer-illiterate professional demand that I set up the computer so that if she started typing a letter, it would open what she started typing in Word. But if she started typing rows and columns of numbers it should open what she had started typing in Excel. Because it was too damn complicated to remember which labeled icon on the computer she was supposed to launch for which purpose, and she shoudn’t have to know that stuff anyway, the computer ought to be able to figure it out. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2010, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sometimes-people-dont-get-the-bloody-obvious/551562/73 "2010-08-28T06:12:55Z")
So let me get this straight. If we can add negative numbers, and you wanted to go with the lower price on the siding, then why can’t I have the small chicken salad? ---
**Author:** ![lee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lee/32/7455_2.png) [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2010, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sometimes-people-dont-get-the-bloody-obvious/551562/74 "2010-08-28T07:40:52Z")
I am saying a silent thank you that my boss is not like that. I do tech stuff for a living, and recently had to clean up after a program accepted values for a field which it could not then display. So once the mistake was made, the poor user could not fix their error. There is a failure at every stage in the SDLC anytime this happens. I suppose it seems superfluous to put in the requirement that the software should only accept a value that is valid for that input, and if that is not explicitly stated, then the test designers won’t test for it. The developers should code that in automatically, but if no one puts that in their process document, they won’t. Test designers only test explicit requirements, and QA only follows the test scripts. Oh, and in the example in the OP there should be two sets of tests done on that input. The first is this really a number, and just a number? And the second is this an appropriate number for this field? [Otherwise some mother can come along and mess you up but good.](http://xkcd.com/327/)the ---
**Author:** ![evilbeth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/evilbeth/32/2268_2.png) [@evilbeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/evilbeth)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sometimes-people-dont-get-the-bloody-obvious/551562/75 "2010-08-30T04:51:27Z")
**tdn** , do you work healthcare IT? That job is a nightmare–I am so glad I am no longer near it. Just reading the OP was giving me hives, recalling many similar conversations. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sometimes-people-dont-get-the-bloody-obvious/551562.md?page=3)