# Somewhere in the rain forest may be a cure for cancer **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 8, 2006, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somewhere-in-the-rain-forest-may-be-a-cure-for-cancer/343610 "2006-02-08T22:49:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somewhere-in-the-rain-forest-may-be-a-cure-for-cancer/343610/1 "2006-02-08T22:49:10Z")
Has this ever happened before? Not with cancer, obviously, or a) cancer would be cured and b) we wouldn’t keep saying it. The thread title is commonly used an excuse for conservation of ecosystems, species, and so forth: that somewhere in some unexplored or inadequately researched part of the world we might find some naturally-occuring whatsitz that would cure some terrible disease. Wouldn’t it be better to look in the same neck of the woods that the disease _came from_ rather than halfway around the planet? Sure, there’s the bread mold discovery — penicillin — but have any important medical discoveries ever been made by finding something remote and out-of-the-way in the spirit of the thread title? ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somewhere-in-the-rain-forest-may-be-a-cure-for-cancer/343610/2 "2006-02-08T22:52:56Z")
Off the top of my head, Taxol was derived from the Pacific Yew tree. So yeah, pharmaceuticals can be found in nature. ---
**Author:** ![Common\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@Common\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Common_Man)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somewhere-in-the-rain-forest-may-be-a-cure-for-cancer/343610/3 "2006-02-08T23:08:32Z")
Aspirin was derived from the bark of the willow tree. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somewhere-in-the-rain-forest-may-be-a-cure-for-cancer/343610/4 "2006-02-08T23:13:11Z")
And willow trees and the Pacific yew are remote and out-of-the-way? The question was not “can pharmaceuticals be found in nature.” What I’m getting at is that we have discovered things that have been around and under scrutiny for thousands of years; have we ever just walked into a remote jungle and tripped over ‘Cure for XYZ’? The idea that miracle cures may be found in unexplored locations sounds more like an article of faith, or an extrapolation of existing discoveries, rather than being from any actual, you know, examples. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somewhere-in-the-rain-forest-may-be-a-cure-for-cancer/343610/5 "2006-02-08T23:15:11Z")
I don’t know about the Pacific Yew tree, but it’s been known for about a bazillion years that willow tree bark could help relieve a headache. That’s not really what the OP is asking for. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somewhere-in-the-rain-forest-may-be-a-cure-for-cancer/343610/6 "2006-02-08T23:20:28Z")
> [@Fish](#): > > And willow trees and the Pacific yew are remote and out-of-the-way? > > The question was not “can pharmaceuticals be found in nature.” What I’m getting at is that we have discovered things that have been around and under scrutiny for thousands of years; have we ever just walked into a remote jungle and tripped over ‘Cure for XYZ’? Well, until very recently from a historical standpoint, the Pacific Yew \* was \* in a remote part of the globe. And it’s properties were discovered in the 60’s. So, yes, extrapolating from that, if you go to the area with the largest biodiversity on the planet, you might expect to find more useful substances. (A derivate of curare, from those same tropical rainforests is widely used in surgery.) ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somewhere-in-the-rain-forest-may-be-a-cure-for-cancer/343610/7 "2006-02-08T23:26:57Z")
> [@Fish](#): > > Has this ever happened before? > > Not with cancer, obviously. One of the most effective anti-cancer medications comes from the jungles of [Madagascar](http://www.rcpath.org/index.asp?PageID=805). > [@](#): > > Vincristine is one of a group of anti-cancer drugs called vinca alkaloids, which are derived from the Madagascar periwinkle (Vinca rosea). ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somewhere-in-the-rain-forest-may-be-a-cure-for-cancer/343610/8 "2006-02-08T23:35:51Z")
Dunno about the relevance of the Pacific yew, given that it took roughly 160 years for a discovery to be made. Maybe I’m coming at this from the wrong direction. When did we first begin seeing the notion of “save the rain forests, because we might find the cure for cancer in there” and what gave rise to the saying: extrapolation from estimates of biodiversity, wishful thinking, or a concrete example? ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somewhere-in-the-rain-forest-may-be-a-cure-for-cancer/343610/9 "2006-02-08T23:39:03Z")
> [@Fish](#): > > And willow trees and the Pacific yew are remote and out-of-the-way? Not Willow, but unless you live in the Pacific Northwest, Pacific Yew is out-of-the-way. It’s also endangered. > [@](#): > > The question was not “can pharmaceuticals be found in nature.” What I’m getting at is that we have discovered things that have been around and under scrutiny for thousands of years What makes you think the Pacific Yew has been under scrutiny for thousands of years? > [@](#): > > have we ever just walked into a remote jungle and tripped over ‘Cure for XYZ’? > > The idea that miracle cures may be found in unexplored locations sounds more like an article of faith, or an extrapolation of existing discoveries, rather than being from any actual, you know, examples. Are you looking for examples like [this](http://www.cos.gatech.edu/story.php?id=676)? Or [this](http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/05/050513103059.htm)? Maybe the [three examples on this page](http://www.oceansatlas.org/servlet/CDSServlet?status=ND0xODA1MCZjdG5faW5mb192aWV3X3NpemU9Y3RuX2luZm9fdmlld19mdWxsJjY9ZW4mMzM9KiYzNz1rb3M~)? How about the excitement [these folks](http://taylorandfrancis.metapress.com/(0csu0xvulh2nml45avkl4fb3)/app/home/contribution.asp?referrer=parent&backto=issue,10,12;journal,25,67;linkingpublicationresults,1:103117,1) show for many Brazilian plants? There’s [another one](http://www.sarawak-medichem.com/pr/pr12.htm). All from about 5 minutes on Google. Given the incredible array of diversity in nature and the means other organisms have for dealing with bacteria, fungi, viruses, and other pathogens - and even the random compounds that don’t function in nature to deal with pathogens, but that we can still put to some use, it’s perfectly reasonable to suggest that we should check these places out before they’re all gone. ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somewhere-in-the-rain-forest-may-be-a-cure-for-cancer/343610/10 "2006-02-08T23:44:26Z")
> [@Fish](#): > > Maybe I’m coming at this from the wrong direction. When did we first begin seeing the notion of “save the rain forests, because we might find the cure for cancer in there” and what gave rise to the saying: extrapolation from estimates of biodiversity, wishful thinking, or a concrete example? The notion of [Ecosystem services](http://www.actionbioscience.org/environment/esa.html) has been around for a very long time, and could arguably predate writing in many societies which have traditions to protect functions of ecosystems beneficial to man. The early American conservation movement, Theodore Roosevelt and John Muir, alluded to the idea also. It has only been called “ecosystem services” and subject to systematic calculation of benefits for a couple decades, though. I first encountered the term in the mid-1990s, but it’s probably been in the literature for longer than that. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somewhere-in-the-rain-forest-may-be-a-cure-for-cancer/343610/11 "2006-02-08T23:54:15Z")
> [@wevets](#): > > Not Willow, but unless you live in the Pacific Northwest, Pacific Yew is out-of-the-way. Check my location; it is where I live. It has also been inhabited for thousands of years, though not by Europeans. > [@](#): > > What makes you think the Pacific Yew has been under scrutiny for thousands of years? What makes you think I said this? In reference to willow bark and bread mold, those _have_ been within the realm of human experience (though not actively studied with modern chemistry — as for that, not much has) for thousands of years. I will take a look at the examples you provide, although I am curious which one(s) of them gave rise to the _fairly recent_ popular saying re: saving-ecology = cure-for-cancer. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2006, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somewhere-in-the-rain-forest-may-be-a-cure-for-cancer/343610/12 "2006-02-08T23:56:31Z")
Sean Connery certainly thought [so](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104839/) . 😉 ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2006, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somewhere-in-the-rain-forest-may-be-a-cure-for-cancer/343610/13 "2006-02-09T00:19:42Z")
> [@Fish](#): > > Check my location; it is where I live. It has also been inhabited for thousands of years, though not by Europeans. … and even then, the Pacific NW was still out-of-the-way. 😉 > [@](#): > > What makes you think I said this? In reference to willow bark and bread mold, those _have_ been within the realm of human experience (though not actively studied with modern chemistry — as for that, not much has) for thousands of years. Post #4 in this thread sounded like you were dissatisfied with the taxol/Pacific Yew example. At least, as much as a post can “sound” like anything - that’s why I use these 🙂 so much. With the exception of Antarctica, every place on the planet has been inhabited by humans for thousands of years, so if you discount every example where people have lived (regardless of whether they used the substance turned into a pharmaceutical in modern times), you won’t find many examples. > [@](#): > > I will take a look at the examples you provide, although I am curious which one(s) of them gave rise to the _fairly recent_ popular saying re: saving-ecology = cure-for-cancer. I don’t think any of them _gave rise_ to the recent saying. Your post at 06:35 pm wasn’t there when I wrote, so I was addressing the OP about cures/treatments (I’m not sure what qualifies as a “miracle” ;j ) found in remote ecosystems. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2006, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somewhere-in-the-rain-forest-may-be-a-cure-for-cancer/343610/14 "2006-02-09T00:38:50Z")
I’m currently taking a new diabetic “wonder drug” (Byetta) that was originally derived from an enzyme found in the saliva of the gila monster. This drug is literally saving my life. There’s also a cardiovascular drug that’s derived from the saliva of leeches. So if you encounter something salivating in the rain forest, or any other ecosystem, don’t automatically write it off as useless. ---
**Author:** ![Antigen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/848f3c/32.png) [@Antigen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antigen)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2006, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somewhere-in-the-rain-forest-may-be-a-cure-for-cancer/343610/15 "2006-02-09T00:53:13Z")
There are tons of drugs derived from plant sources. For example: [Warfarin](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warfarin) , anticoagulant, from sweet clover. [Curare](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curare), anaesthetic, also from a couple of plants. Many antibiotics (Penicillin, Streptomycin, Actinomycin) were found by studying yeasts, molds, and bacteria, because these bugs have been fighting each other for years and have evolved specialized chemical warfare to do it. Most drugs today are synthetic concoctions, but they’re usually based on a natural compound and tweaked for efficiency and specificity. Destroy plants that nobody’s had a chance to look at yet, and you may lose potential new drugs, although there are plenty of other reasons against clearcutting the Amazon. ---
**Author:** ![bonzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@bonzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonzer)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2006, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somewhere-in-the-rain-forest-may-be-a-cure-for-cancer/343610/16 "2006-02-09T22:48:45Z")
There’s also the classic example of [quinine](http://www.cdc.gov/malaria/history/): > [@](#): > > Following their arrival in the New World, the Spanish learned of a medicine used for the treatment of fevers. Spanish Jesuit missionaries in South America learned of a medicinal bark from indigenous Indian tribes. With this bark, the Countess of Chinchón, the wife of the Viceroy of Peru, was cured of her fever. The bark from the tree was then called _Peruvian bark_ and the tree was named Cinchona after the countess. The medicine from the bark is now known as the antimalarial, quinine. Along with artemisinin, quinine is one of the most effective antimalarial drugs available today. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2006, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somewhere-in-the-rain-forest-may-be-a-cure-for-cancer/343610/17 "2006-02-09T23:42:18Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > Off the top of my head, Taxol was derived from the Pacific Yew tree. So yeah, pharmaceuticals can be found in nature. > [@](#): > > **Historical Marker at Gifford Pinchot National Forest** > > A historical marker was unveiled in the Gifford Pinchot National Forest near Packwood, Wash., in 2002 to commemorate the collection of the original sample of Pacific yew (_Taxus brevifolia_), which subsequently led to the discovery of the anticancer compound Taxol by Dr. Mansukh Wani and the late Dr. Monroe Wall. The dedication was made by the USDA Forest Service, the National Cancer Institute, and the American Society of Pharmacognosy on the 40th anniversary of the collection. Source: [http://www.rti.org/page.cfm?nav=413](http://www.rti.org/page.cfm?nav=413) > [@](#): > > On Aug. 21, 2002, in the state of Washington, a historical marker was unveiled to commemorate the collection of the original samples of Pacific yew (_Taxus brevifolia_ Nutt., Taxaceae), which led to the eventual discovery of the anti-cancer compound Taxol¨ by Mansukh Wani, Ph.D., and the late Monroe Wall, Ph.D., at Research Triangle Institute (RTI). > > The marker, consisting of a brass plaque affixed to a two-ton stone, is located in La Wis Wis Campground in the Gifford Pinchot National Forest near Packwood, approximately seven miles from the site where the first specimen was collected 40 years ago by a team of botanists led by Arthur Barclay, Ph.D., of the U.S. Department of Agriculture. Source: [http://www.herbalgram.org/herbalgram/articleview.asp?a=2430](http://www.herbalgram.org/herbalgram/articleview.asp?a=2430) [A Tale of Taxol](http://www.research.fsu.edu/researchr/fall2002/taxol.html) from Florida State University. Quite detailed and worth a read. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2006, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somewhere-in-the-rain-forest-may-be-a-cure-for-cancer/343610/18 "2006-02-09T23:46:34Z")
I remember a poster in the chemistry building saying 40-50% of cancer drugs were derived from plants. So it is feasable. ---
**Author:** ![antechinus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/fbc32d/32.png) [@antechinus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antechinus)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somewhere-in-the-rain-forest-may-be-a-cure-for-cancer/343610/19 "2006-02-10T02:52:44Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > Off the top of my head, Taxol was derived from the Pacific Yew tree. So yeah, pharmaceuticals can be found in nature. Pacific Yew is an extremely slow growing tree and it produces very little taxol. Apparently it takes 6 100-year old trees to provide enough taxol to treat just one patient. It is the incredible synthetic routes developed by Nicoloau and more recently Danishefsky that allow access to taxol, and avoid destruction of the pacific yew. ---
**Author:** ![antechinus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/fbc32d/32.png) [@antechinus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antechinus)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2006, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somewhere-in-the-rain-forest-may-be-a-cure-for-cancer/343610/20 "2006-02-10T03:00:42Z")
Search reveals the commercial synthesis of taxol is via modification of 10-deacetyl baccatin III from the European Yew. [ref](http://www.chemsoc.org/exemplarchem/entries/2003/aberdeen_Murdoch/mm/taxol_the_drug.html) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/somewhere-in-the-rain-forest-may-be-a-cure-for-cancer/343610.md?page=2)