# Son cut from the team. Does mom have a case? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 10, 2012, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/son-cut-from-the-team-does-mom-have-a-case/621528 "2012-05-10T17:46:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/son-cut-from-the-team-does-mom-have-a-case/621528/81 "2012-05-11T21:03:41Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > As an aside. I was having lunch with someone who mentioned that out of the jocks in her high school, the most successful one is now a physical therapist. She made about 20 times as much as a physical therapist last year Bully for her. Not everyone’s skills are academic, and your friend sounds kind of like a bitch. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/son-cut-from-the-team-does-mom-have-a-case/621528/82 "2012-05-11T22:54:20Z")
As someone who was picked on and bullied by jocks in Jr. High, I recognize and understand the desire to play the “The jocks grew up and have crap jobs, and I’m so much better!” but the reality is usually not that. Also, anyone still harboring that kind of grudge for more than a year after high school is petty, and stupid, and needs to get over themselves. I see that CONSTANTLY here at the beloved Dope (the theater building of the internets, imo). ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2012, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/son-cut-from-the-team-does-mom-have-a-case/621528/83 "2012-05-11T23:20:49Z")
> [@Tristan](#): > > As someone who was picked on and bullied by jocks in Jr. High. Two countries separated by a common language. /UK ---
**Author:** ![Sandwich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/22d042/32.png) [@Sandwich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sandwich)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/son-cut-from-the-team-does-mom-have-a-case/621528/84 "2012-05-12T07:45:17Z")
> [@Tristan](#): > > As someone who was picked on and bullied by jocks in Jr. High, All true Scotsmen were bullied by jocks in high school. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/son-cut-from-the-team-does-mom-have-a-case/621528/85 "2012-05-12T12:12:35Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > No, in HS when you are participating in one sport you are not permitted by your current coach to participate in any other sports until that coach releases you. You can organize a tryout, but if you aren’t done with one season you can’t try out for the next season until your coach says so. This isn’t uncommon at all. Actually, in my state, it’s the state physical education association that prohibits it. They would be prohibited from playing football if they were participating in another sport. > [@Kobal2](#): > > And here I thought it was “getting to second base with the head cheerleader” 😃 He said “competitive.” ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/son-cut-from-the-team-does-mom-have-a-case/621528/86 "2012-05-12T12:34:15Z")
Parents should be banned from their children’s sports. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/son-cut-from-the-team-does-mom-have-a-case/621528/87 "2012-05-12T12:55:29Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > Bully for her. Not everyone’s skills are academic, and your friend sounds kind of like a bitch. Yeah. I don’t know what lesson she thinks one should take home from this observation. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/son-cut-from-the-team-does-mom-have-a-case/621528/88 "2012-05-12T14:21:00Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > Is having the best team the coach’s absolute priority? … In the end the coach should be a teacher and so the actual students should be high on their list of priorities. I’d expect those already on a team to have some advantage over those who, for whatever reason, didn’t show up to the original trials. I’d also expect some consideration to be given to those who especially want to be on the team even if they’re not necessarily the absolute best. It seems to me there should be a balance between the winning and the taking part. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’d want to know if the policy on cutting players from the team was established and reasonably known at the time the student made the choice to join the team. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > What would change my mind about this is if evidence showed up that this was a regular practice each year and/or the nine students that were cut had been told beforehand that they were only placeholders. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Who the hell would bother to go to the early tryouts knowing that the coach was holding out for the football team to be available three months later? If the players who made the team knew ahead of time that the coach was only biding his time until his _real_ team was available, how high do think the moral would have been? > [@Sinaptics](#): > > Agree with the folks saying it was a dick move. The purpose of the football program isn’t to have “the best team possible.” It’s to engage students in extracurricular activities while training them for the sport. Putting the team above the students doesn’t do anything for anyone except boost the egos of a relatively few people. > [@Odesio](#): > > Then maybe we should reexamine high school athletic programs. I say this as someone who participated in athletics all through high school. Given the amount of money spent on sports programs, maybe we should work to make it so more students can participate. I agree with all of these statements to some extent. I think there should be some moderation here. The purpose of a high school sports program should not absolutely be just to produce the best team. There should be some consideration of the value of a coach taking whatever groups students he or she has and teaching them how to be the best that they can be. Any activity associated with a school should be primarily geared towards educating and educating as many as possible. I think our athletic system is backwards and upside down. School sports shouldn’t be the ones with a laser focus on winning. That should be the private sports associations. Little league, semi-pro, etc. – _that_ should be the place that has winning as its primary objective, not high schools and universities. I think that big time college sporting programs are really professional programs. They should be divorced organizationally from their universities and their athletes should be paid as professionals. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/son-cut-from-the-team-does-mom-have-a-case/621528/89 "2012-05-12T15:05:39Z")
Huh. At my high school, tryouts were held for the basketball team with all kids who wanted to participating. Football players were named to the team and simply actively joined when football season was over. Nobody who made the team was cut when this happened, some players just stopped dressing out for games. Everyone on the team got credit for playing. Seems like an easy solution. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2012, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/son-cut-from-the-team-does-mom-have-a-case/621528/90 "2012-05-12T15:18:17Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I’d be upset if I were a student who got cut that way, but that doesn’t mean anyone did anything wrong. The coach’s job is to have the best team, and the best players are the ones who have the most right to be there. If the coach played favorites with his football players and didn’t pick the best players, there is at least grounds for complaining (if not grounds for a lawsuit). I am not sure the school can do anything about the way the football and basketball seasons are scheduled since that is going to involve a slew of other area schools, and they could look into creating some kind of rule to deal with this situation. But it doesn’t sound like grounds for a lawsuit. > It says nothing about becoming a professional. > I’m skeptical, but you’re making assumptions. She didn’t say her kid was going to be the #1 pick in the NBA draft - she said he’s losing a shot at athletic scholarships. If he was a superstar player, this wouldn’t have happened. That doesn’t mean he had no shot at a smaller scholarship someplace. I think it does. If he’s bottom tier, then nobody wants him. To accommodate losers like this, they need some showcase for those who can’t make the cut, which is what he is. No school that I’m aware of has such, ergo, he has/had no possibility of being noted, just like thousands of others. The school has no obligation to make a dork eligible for scholarships. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2012, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/son-cut-from-the-team-does-mom-have-a-case/621528/91 "2012-05-13T19:06:09Z")
In my state, kids who are homeschooled or have alternative schooling still have access to public school sports and extracurricular activities. It’s part of their rights. In regards to Title IX, if the girls aren’t subjected to ‘re-tryouts’, perhaps there’s his argument. Of course they don’t have this problem - they aren’t playing football - but if the high school allows girls to try out for the football team and they just don’t, then the school is placing a harsher burden on the boys. I think. I have to ruminate on that one. The OP is about the law, not about what’s fair. While the lawsuit is causing us to snicker, I’m not convinced it’s frivolous. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/son-cut-from-the-team-does-mom-have-a-case/621528/92 "2012-05-14T20:55:49Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > The average physical therapist makes about $75k a year in the United States. If your friend is making $1.5 million a year she’s far more successful than most everyone else she went to high school with. I doubt it. > [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > Bully for her. Not everyone’s skills are academic, and your friend sounds kind of like a bitch. Why is she a bitch? Just because she makes good money? We were talking about the role of athletics in high school (and in the college admissions process) and frankly the central role of schools is to educate students and extracurricular activities are exactly that…extra. But with the way colleges make admissions decisions today its like going to a steak house with mediocre steaks because they have good asparagus and baked potatoes. > [@Tristan](#): > > As someone who was picked on and bullied by jocks in Jr. High, I recognize and understand the desire to play the “The jocks grew up and have crap jobs, and I’m so much better!” but the reality is usually not that. The reality is that the top students generally do better than the top jocks. > [@monstro](#): > > Yeah. I don’t know what lesson she thinks one should take home from this observation. Yeah, I know. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/son-cut-from-the-team-does-mom-have-a-case/621528/93 "2012-05-15T00:58:50Z")
[Physical Therapist San Jose, Ca](http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/Physical-Therapist-Salary-Details-San-Jose-CA.aspx) Median income- $91,983 ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/son-cut-from-the-team-does-mom-have-a-case/621528/94 "2012-05-15T02:06:30Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > We were talking about the role of athletics in high school (and in the college admissions process) and frankly the central role of schools is to educate students and extracurricular activities are exactly that…extra. And you base this pedagogical knowledge on… help us out here… For those whose knowledge of pedagogy doesn’t start and end at an argument on the SDMB,[research has shown that participation in sports plays a vital role in the cognitive development of children](http://www.voxeu.org/index.php?q=node/7221), and has long reaching effects. There is a reason why, for instance, the US Secret Service tends to prefer to hire football players when possible, and it’s not because they can tackle an assailant but because they’ve learned valuable teamwork skills that are necessary when a large group is working in concert. The idea that organized physical activity and organized mental activity are divorced is, quite simply, nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/son-cut-from-the-team-does-mom-have-a-case/621528/95 "2012-05-15T18:47:11Z")
Sports: biggest waste of time, money and energy in modern society. People who ought be doing something productive playing silly, pointless games while the remaining simpletons pay money to applaud. :rolleyes: Tell the kid to crack some books to get a _real_ scholarship. End of story. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/son-cut-from-the-team-does-mom-have-a-case/621528/96 "2012-05-15T18:51:15Z")
So… other than the pedagogical research on the affects of sports, what exactly are you basing your conclusion on? ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/son-cut-from-the-team-does-mom-have-a-case/621528/97 "2012-05-15T19:05:18Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Who the hell would bother to go to the early tryouts knowing that the coach was holding out for the football team to be available three months later? If the players who made the team knew ahead of time that the coach was only biding his time until his _real_ team was available, how high do think the moral would have been? What if a potential player didnt live there at the time the first tryouts were held? Additionally, there are things that can affect performance, or someone could have had camps to improve. Skill isnt a static measurement ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/son-cut-from-the-team-does-mom-have-a-case/621528/98 "2012-05-15T19:06:43Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I doubt it. > **[Occupational Employment and Wage Statistics (OEWS) Tables](https://www.bls.gov/oes/tables.htm)** > > Tables Created by BLS Heaven forbid you look something up for yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2012, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/son-cut-from-the-team-does-mom-have-a-case/621528/99 "2012-05-15T20:26:01Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#): > > Sports: biggest waste of time, money and energy in modern society. People who ought be doing something productive playing silly, pointless games while the remaining simpletons pay money to applaud. :rolleyes: Economically, you’re wrong, of course. Sports generate a ton of money. Maybe not for the average citizen, but they do contribute to the general economy and in no small way. No sports means a good sized hit to the economy. Socially, you’re also standing on shaky ground. So, if people aren’t spending their time thinking on sports, they’ll be solving all the world’s problems, right? Coming up with the flying car and meals in pill form, no doubt. Or maybe, just maybe, they’ll come up with some other way to spend their idle moments that lights up the pleasure centers of their brains. And that other way will still seem like a big waste of time to _somebody_. Cases in point: comic books, television, games, painting, music, pornography. Having time to “waste” is a good sign for a society. It means we’re not starving and can spare resources to build up museums and universities (don’t forget that some people consider large portions of a university education a waste of time and money, too). > [@CaptMurdock](#): > > Tell the kid to crack some books to get a _real_ scholarship. End of story. Or the mom, at any rate. The kid probably just wants to play. It’s not entirely his fault he’s not good enough to compete with his classmates or that the mother is litigiously minded. As for “real” scholarships, we value several things in society. We can argue that sports may be overly valued in society, but the philosophy at my alma mater (which is not exactly known as a big sports school) is that athletics adds to the diversity of the school and to society, just as having both women and men, having people of various races, having musicians, engineers, writers, artists, scientists, and other types of people add to the diversity of the student body. Simply dismissing something that’s formed one of the cornerstones of modern Western education (dating back to the Greeks, no less) is small minded. Maybe our values are skewed too much towards athletics but getting rid of them entirely doesn’t make much sense, either. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2012, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/son-cut-from-the-team-does-mom-have-a-case/621528/100 "2012-05-16T14:31:40Z")
Hmmm… the phenomenon that Jocks are top of the food chain in high school and a lot less important afterwards in real life - Bruce Springsteen’s _Glory Days_ ? OTOH, the key to success is far more often social than technical - Trump makes a lot more than smart people. Leadership in an oganization, such as a large company management, is more about social skills, politics, salesmanship and such than being a smart accountant or network technician - although generally, you do need to be not a total moron… The question here really is - what was the standard practice - have the first tryout candidates traditionally been bumped when the next group comes along? If so then they have no complaint - as others pointed out, this means the non-footballers have a few months of practice and work to show their stuff before the final cut. This means the kid actually got a break, got a chance to get professional help for his less than stellar basketball skills. For this the mother kicks the coach in the gonads… It shows how long it’s been since I had to worry about high school sports (i.e. never), and maybe in my era and place they were a lot less organized. I don’t see why someone should not be in the basketball and football team (and hockey team) at the same time. If there is simply not enough time for all this activity, then the problem is that football - or basketball, or both - is simply too big a part of the students’ life IMHO. A sport is good, and healthy, but if it becomes an all-consuming part of your life to the point where you cannot do anything else, then you better be bound for the Olympics or a million-dollar career, or your coach is seriously overdoing it. The point of high school sport to me seems to be to learn some skills while having fun; not to become dedicated to the one cause. Especially, it should not be so all-consuming important that helicopter-mom sues over it… Not sure where any constitutional right comes in. If the program is strictly merit-based, with a limited number of spots, then if he fails on the basis of merit he has no case. There is nothing in the cosntitution about accepting all applicants to a size-limited team. Nor is there anything in the constitution that requires all children to be judged as above average. As an aside, This guy can’t even make his local high school basketball team - not even as the worst of the accepted players. It’s 99.9% certain he’s not going to miss any athletic scholarships. Maybe he should study and look for a real scholarship. The mother is of course making herself and her kid very welcome in their social groups (Not!), especially if the suit disrupts the basketball team and causes the schoolboard an inordinate amount in lawyer fees. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/son-cut-from-the-team-does-mom-have-a-case/621528.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/son-cut-from-the-team-does-mom-have-a-case/621528.md?page=6)