# Song of the South is Racist as Much for What it Doesn’t Show as What it Does **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [April 30, 2024, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/song-of-the-south-is-racist-as-much-for-what-it-doesn-t-show-as-what-it-does/1000966 "2024-04-30T13:40:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/song-of-the-south-is-racist-as-much-for-what-it-doesn-t-show-as-what-it-does/1000966/41 "2024-05-02T14:35:58Z")
_Song of the South_ strikes me as a sacrificial lamb of sorts to wash away the sins of almost every other mainstream film of the era that features a black character. The “wise and happy negro” domestic servant is more than a trope in mid-century film, radio, and TV; it’s a fixture. Many don’t get the airplay they once did 20 or 30 years ago, but most haven’t been so visibly (I can’t believe I’m using this word) “cancelled” like SoS. ---
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/song-of-the-south-is-racist-as-much-for-what-it-doesn-t-show-as-what-it-does/1000966/42 "2024-05-02T15:34:54Z")
> [@Asuka](#): > > Is it racist for the recent trend of WW2 movies having black characters just be part of the cast and not bringing it up how rare this would be? Like specifically it’s 1944 Europe pre-Battle of the Bulge and for some reason you got a random black soldier as part of an American infantry squad? Which movies did this, specifically? (And no, inaccurate multi-cultural inclusion in historical movies is not racism.) ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/song-of-the-south-is-racist-as-much-for-what-it-doesn-t-show-as-what-it-does/1000966/43 "2024-05-02T16:05:15Z")
Off the top of my head, Jim Brown in _The Dirty Dozen_, and Ivan Dixon in _Hogan’s Heroes_. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/song-of-the-south-is-racist-as-much-for-what-it-doesn-t-show-as-what-it-does/1000966/44 "2024-05-02T16:08:08Z")
> [@Asuka](#): > > Is it racist for the recent trend of WW2 movies having black characters just be part of the cast and not bringing it up how rare this would be? Like specifically it’s 1944 Europe pre-Battle of the Bulge and for some reason you got a random black soldier as part of an American infantry squad? Here’s a piece of history; a lot of cowboys were black. But a lot of western movies show only white cowboys. So here’s the deal. If you’re somebody who complains about the appearance of black soldiers in WWII movies and also complains about the lack of black cowboys in western movies then the historical accuracy of movies is probably the issue. But if you’re somebody who complains about the appearance of black soldiers in WWII movies and never mentions the lack of black cowboys in western movies then racism may be the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/song-of-the-south-is-racist-as-much-for-what-it-doesn-t-show-as-what-it-does/1000966/45 "2024-05-02T16:20:51Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Off the top of my head, Jim Brown in _The Dirty Dozen_, and Ivan Dixon in _Hogan’s Heroes_. OK, but were those two movies even trying to be remotely accurate? One is an Army officer recruiting and training a bunch of convicts for a special forces mission, and the other is a POW sitcom. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/song-of-the-south-is-racist-as-much-for-what-it-doesn-t-show-as-what-it-does/1000966/46 "2024-05-02T16:31:29Z")
Oh, no, absolutely not, and looking at the original post, I see they explicitly excluded The Dirty Dozen and movies about POWs, so those weren’t good examples. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/song-of-the-south-is-racist-as-much-for-what-it-doesn-t-show-as-what-it-does/1000966/47 "2024-05-02T16:31:37Z")
You’re moving the goalposts now but I agree with your earlier statement that it’s not racism. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/song-of-the-south-is-racist-as-much-for-what-it-doesn-t-show-as-what-it-does/1000966/48 "2024-06-10T20:00:13Z")
The latest from Disney: > **[A new Disney ride opens soon, splashing right out of the culture wars | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/travel/tiana-bayou-adventure-disney-world/index.html)** > > Tiana’s Bayou Adventure replaces Splash Mountain, an attraction based on the often criticized 1946 film “Song of the South.” ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/song-of-the-south-is-racist-as-much-for-what-it-doesn-t-show-as-what-it-does/1000966/49 "2024-06-10T20:59:11Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > The latest from Disney: Nothing whatsoever to do with “culture wars”. It has to do with film popularity. _The Princess and the Frog_ is way way more recent and many more people have seen it. Few have seen _Song of the South_ in its entirety (there is one song clip that is common). Just like the Submarine ride is now Finding Nemo, not deep sea exploration. It’s why DCA is now Pixar themed. It is why Bugs Land, based upon “Its a Bugs Life” is now Avengers Campus. Did they think Bugs are culturally bad? Nope, they just know that film is one 1998 film and they have a bunch of more recent more popular Marvel films. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2024, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/song-of-the-south-is-racist-as-much-for-what-it-doesn-t-show-as-what-it-does/1000966/50 "2024-06-10T22:17:22Z")
> [@Dorjan](#): > > Which movies did this, specifically? (And no, inaccurate multi-cultural inclusion in historical movies is not racism.) _Captain America: The First Avenger_. But it’s probably not set in our neck of the multiverse so maybe that one gets a pass. I can’t think of a serious drama set during WWII that wouldn’t have depicted a segregated US Army. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2024, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/song-of-the-south-is-racist-as-much-for-what-it-doesn-t-show-as-what-it-does/1000966/51 "2024-06-11T00:32:55Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > I can’t think of a serious drama set during WWII that wouldn’t have depicted a segregated US Army. You could easily make one up- a group of soldiers (white and brown) riding the _red ball express_ with a black driver and co driver- the Nazis ambush them, etc etc. I mean, you would see Black soldiers, but not in your unit- except maybe as a cook. The Army was still pretty segregated. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2024, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/song-of-the-south-is-racist-as-much-for-what-it-doesn-t-show-as-what-it-does/1000966/52 "2024-06-11T00:43:59Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > You could easily make one up- a group of soldiers (white and brown) riding the _red ball express_ with a black driver and co driver- the Nazis ambush them, etc etc. During the Battle of the Bulge, the US Army integrated some of their forces (out of necessity I would imagine) and later reports showed the black soldiers and the integrated units performed effectively. I don’t think I’ve ever seen any depiction of the Battle of the Bulge with black soldiers doing anything. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2024, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/song-of-the-south-is-racist-as-much-for-what-it-doesn-t-show-as-what-it-does/1000966/53 "2024-06-11T01:01:11Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > It has to do with film popularity. _The Princess and the Frog_ is way way more recent and many more people have seen it. Because that can’t and wouldn’t show _Song of the South_ in the past 50 years. It has a lot to do with the controversial content in SotS and Disney not wanting it to be the theme of a ride for kids. ---
**Author:** ![Boudicca90](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boudicca90/32/16818_2.png) [@Boudicca90](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boudicca90)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2024, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/song-of-the-south-is-racist-as-much-for-what-it-doesn-t-show-as-what-it-does/1000966/54 "2024-06-11T09:12:33Z")
It makes sense that they would change the branding of Splash Mountain, just weird that it took so long. Growing up in the 90’s, every time I would go on Splash Mountain as a kid I would see the Song of the South characters but had no idea who they were, since Disney pretty much buried the movie by this point. Rightfully so, as I have seen it since and it is pretty racist, if not as overtly as other movies. As far as I’m concerned, both this movie and Gone With The Wind can just go away forever and I won’t miss them. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2024, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/song-of-the-south-is-racist-as-much-for-what-it-doesn-t-show-as-what-it-does/1000966/55 "2024-06-11T16:05:48Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > _Captain America: The First Avenger_. But it’s probably not set in our neck of the multiverse so maybe that one gets a pass. I can’t think of a serious drama set during WWII that wouldn’t have depicted a segregated US Army. The regular army is still segregated there. The POWs he rescues from Hydra are multi-ethnic, but that’s because they include people from a bunch of different regiments, including one of the Japanese-American units that historically were in the European theater, and some Black drivers and cooks and other support roles. Steve uses his unique position in the military to turn them into his personal WWII squad, the Howling Commandos, but he’s an exception to the policy. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2024, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/song-of-the-south-is-racist-as-much-for-what-it-doesn-t-show-as-what-it-does/1000966/56 "2024-06-11T16:10:40Z")
Captain American Exceptionalism? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2024, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/song-of-the-south-is-racist-as-much-for-what-it-doesn-t-show-as-what-it-does/1000966/57 "2024-06-11T16:28:08Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I grew up in the '50s, and even in NY the reaction would be “of course BB is not invited. That’s the way things are.” And we’d not think of it as racist. Burning crosses and lynching were racist. That my elementary school, 3 blocks from the Black neighborhood (and the dividing line was clear) had one Black student was not considered racist either. Or much thought about by kids. I grew up later and, effectively, have no memory of the film except the bit about the briar patch. The question for me would be, relative to the average American (not the Average American in, say, New York but including the entire country) at that time, was SotS pushing towards regressive or progressive to have the rule that: 1. You can be friends 2. But you can’t invite them to your birthday party with other white kids The first, if exceptional, could be the dominant message of the film relative to the time. Alternately, the second could have been the dominant message - advocating for the status quo. It seems pretty clear that the shift in society happened very quickly through the middle and late part of the 20th century so, even a progressive film could very quickly end up being regressive. And SotS was very early in that period - 1946. I don’t have any sense for which it would have been? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2024, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/song-of-the-south-is-racist-as-much-for-what-it-doesn-t-show-as-what-it-does/1000966/58 "2024-06-11T20:38:33Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Because that can’t and wouldn’t show _Song of the South_ in the past 50 years. Maybe, But far more likely- _out with the old in with the new._ A Bugs Life is still shown, but they dumped that area in favor of Avengers. Disney does this a lot. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2024, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/song-of-the-south-is-racist-as-much-for-what-it-doesn-t-show-as-what-it-does/1000966/59 "2024-06-11T21:04:50Z")
> [@Boudicca90](#): > > As far as I’m concerned, both this movie and Gone With The Wind can just go away forever and I won’t miss them. 👍 👍 👍 ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2024, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/song-of-the-south-is-racist-as-much-for-what-it-doesn-t-show-as-what-it-does/1000966/60 "2024-06-12T01:21:46Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > But far more likely- _out with the old in with the new._ No, that’s not it. They have de-emphasized the ride’s connection with Song of the South since the beginning but to little success. Cinderella and Snow White are much older than SotS, and they are mainstays at Disney. This has been a troublesome ride based on a troublesome movie, and they finally made the call to change it out based on the last few years of public scrutiny. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/song-of-the-south-is-racist-as-much-for-what-it-doesn-t-show-as-what-it-does/1000966.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/song-of-the-south-is-racist-as-much-for-what-it-doesn-t-show-as-what-it-does/1000966.md?page=4)