# Song of the South is Racist as Much for What it Doesn’t Show as What it Does **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [April 30, 2024, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/song-of-the-south-is-racist-as-much-for-what-it-doesn-t-show-as-what-it-does/1000966 "2024-04-30T13:40:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2024, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/song-of-the-south-is-racist-as-much-for-what-it-doesn-t-show-as-what-it-does/1000966/81 "2024-06-13T23:07:15Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > When the film was first released, White telegraphed major newspapers around the country with the following statement, erroneously claiming that the film depicted an [antebellum](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antebellum_South) setting: But that quote of yours from the Wikipedia article is just referencing the exact same telegram from White that I already quoted in my previous post. There’s no new information there; it still STM very much a matter of interpretation whether White’s statements imply that he thought the action of the film was actually set in the antebellum era. As I noted, there was a lot of detailed information about the film making the media rounds before White sent his telegram, and he had certainly been well aware of the SotS project at least since Disney invited him to consult on the script while the film was still in production (an offer White declined). So I remain somewhat skeptical that at the time of the film’s release White believed, or meant to give the impression, that the action of SotS actually took place pre-1965. And so far, nothing that you’ve cited conclusively demonstrates that he did. (And having read the script myself, I personally would agree that the film is indeed presenting “a dangerously glorified picture of slavery” and “an idyllic master-slave relationship” in Uncle Remus’s nostalgia, and the plantation-bound subservient subordinate status of all the black characters. Even though the setting is ostensibly post-1865, AFAICT no black character in the film is shown doing anything at all that an enslaved person wouldn’t have been doing in an idealized antebellum “happy plantation family”.) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2024, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/song-of-the-south-is-racist-as-much-for-what-it-doesn-t-show-as-what-it-does/1000966/82 "2024-06-14T03:10:37Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > So I remain somewhat skeptical that at the time of the film’s release White believed, or meant to give the impression, that the action of SotS actually took place pre-1965. And so far, nothing that you’ve cited conclusively demonstrates that he did. However, what I did prove is that _he did not bother to see it before he complained about it._ ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2024, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/song-of-the-south-is-racist-as-much-for-what-it-doesn-t-show-as-what-it-does/1000966/83 "2024-06-14T18:18:41Z")
Well, evidently he nonetheless knew enough about the movie to give a pretty accurate assessment of it, AFAICT from reading the script and a bunch of discussions over the succeeding decades. “Remarkable artistic merit” in music and technical developments? A bit generous, perhaps, but reasonable. “Effort neither to offend audiences in the north or south”? Definitely. Encouraging “a dangerously glorified picture of slavery” and “the impression of an idyllic master-slave relationship”? Check; check. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2024, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/song-of-the-south-is-racist-as-much-for-what-it-doesn-t-show-as-what-it-does/1000966/84 "2024-06-15T02:12:02Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > > > And they were right. > > No, they were wrong- because they didnt watch it. I’m not clear on what point you are trying to make here. Are you saying they were wrong in saying there were racist depictions in _Song of the South_ because there are no racist depictions in the movie? Or are you saying they were wrong in saying there were racist depictions in _Song of the South_ because there even though there are racist depictions in the movie, they did not have sufficient evidence of that at the time they said it? ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUBv.2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanubv.2/32/3260_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUBv.2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUBv.2)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2024, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/song-of-the-south-is-racist-as-much-for-what-it-doesn-t-show-as-what-it-does/1000966/85 "2024-06-15T05:08:26Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > However, what I did prove is that _he did not bother to see it before he complained about it._ No offense, but so what? I’m not sure what difference it makes if the complaint is valid. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2024, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/song-of-the-south-is-racist-as-much-for-what-it-doesn-t-show-as-what-it-does/1000966/86 "2024-06-15T19:51:48Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Are you saying they were wrong in saying there were racist depictions in _Song of the South_ because there are no racist depictions in the movie? > > Or are you saying they were wrong in saying there were racist depictions in _Song of the South_ because there even though there are racist depictions in the movie, they did not have sufficient evidence of that at the time they said it? Have I stopped beating my wife? They were wrong about racist depistion in the film because they had not actually seen it. And, IMHO- there were none. > [@WOOKINPANUBv.2](#): > > No offense, but so what? I’m not sure what difference it makes if the complaint is valid. “The food at that restaurant tastes horrible”- “Oh, when did you go?” “I have never eaten there, but based upon the name of the restaurant, I know it’s horrible”. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2024, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/song-of-the-south-is-racist-as-much-for-what-it-doesn-t-show-as-what-it-does/1000966/87 "2024-06-15T19:59:36Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Have I stopped beating my wife? You’re the one who said they were wrong. I was just asking you what you felt they were wrong about. > [@DrDeth](#): > > They were wrong about racist depistion in the film because they had not actually seen it. And, IMHO- there were none. Then we disagree. I feel that the racial situation depicted in _Song of the South_ was clearly racist because it depicted black people as being contented with a servile lifestyle and social inferiority and as needed white people to give them direction. I feel that the majority of black people living in 1946 would have agreed this was racist (even if they were afraid to say so). So I feel that the NAACP and other civil rights figures were correct in denouncing _Song of the South_. And what’s more, I don’t feel that black people need me, a white person, to give his approval before they denounce something for being racist. Black people are going to experience anti-black racism more clearly than I or any other white person does. ---
**Author:** ![Eclipse\_Chaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@Eclipse\_Chaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eclipse_Chaser)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2024, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/song-of-the-south-is-racist-as-much-for-what-it-doesn-t-show-as-what-it-does/1000966/88 "2024-06-16T12:17:06Z")
I’ve never seen SoTS. Is it available to watch anywhere? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2024, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/song-of-the-south-is-racist-as-much-for-what-it-doesn-t-show-as-what-it-does/1000966/89 "2024-06-16T12:20:28Z")
As Song of the South is not in Public Domain until 2041, I removed the link completely. { **What Exit?** } ---
**Author:** ![Eclipse\_Chaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@Eclipse\_Chaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eclipse_Chaser)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2024, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/song-of-the-south-is-racist-as-much-for-what-it-doesn-t-show-as-what-it-does/1000966/90 "2024-06-16T12:32:06Z")
Thanks. I’m hesitant to watch it though as I guess I’ll find it pretty distasteful. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2024, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/song-of-the-south-is-racist-as-much-for-what-it-doesn-t-show-as-what-it-does/1000966/91 "2024-06-16T12:53:37Z")
**Moderating** : Please don’t link to sites showing non-Public Domain movies. Especially ones belonging to massive corporations like Disney with more Lawyers than we have users. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2024, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/song-of-the-south-is-racist-as-much-for-what-it-doesn-t-show-as-what-it-does/1000966/92 "2024-06-16T14:12:17Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > > [@DrDeth](#): > > > > No, they were wrong- because they didnt watch it. > > Or are you saying they were wrong in saying there were racist depictions in _Song of the South_ because there even though there are racist depictions in the movie, they did not have sufficient evidence of that at the time they said it? And, really – these critics _knew the **source material** _. From their activist POV **that** would probably be enough to suggest that a Disneyfied presentation of that source material was _not_ what you wanted to see at that time in the development of society. And of course, what **Little\_Nemo** said later. Just because it’s not Birth Of A Nation does not mean it’s “clean”. This is the kind of racism that for the longest time most of the country felt comfortable with looking the other way as long as everything stayed peaceful. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2024, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/song-of-the-south-is-racist-as-much-for-what-it-doesn-t-show-as-what-it-does/1000966/93 "2024-06-16T15:14:56Z")
I apologize. I thought that everything on [archive.org](http://archive.org) was in the public domain. I should have checked. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/song-of-the-south-is-racist-as-much-for-what-it-doesn-t-show-as-what-it-does/1000966.md?page=4)