# Song writing credits dispute (generic & The Smiths) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 17, 2003, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/song-writing-credits-dispute-generic-the-smiths/182430 "2003-06-17T12:16:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![JAPrufrock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@JAPrufrock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JAPrufrock)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2003, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/song-writing-credits-dispute-generic-the-smiths/182430/1 "2003-06-17T12:16:58Z")
Is there any specific way that song writing credits are suppposed to work? Let’s say parson A brings in the chord progression to a song. Person B listens to it and writes the lyrics. Person C comes up with a seperate melody for the song after hearing it. The song is then recorded, with person D coming up with the bass line, and Person F playing the drums. Now, bands will regularly credit the whole band for the song writing, or just the lyricist and the guitarist…so, let’s complicate matters. Let’s say a CD comes out and credits person A and B for writing the song and lyrics. Can persons C through F go back and sue if, in retrospect, they become upset because the parts they wrote were attributed as “arrangements”, but they feel it was actually part of the writing. I know, I know, consult an entertainment lawyer for a definitive answer, but all you legal eagles out in Straight Dope land must have some input on the topic. As a side note, isn’t this kind of what The Smiths just went through? Morrissey & Marr were given all the writing credits, but the bassist and the drummer went back and sued for royalties a few years back and won. Was it kind of like the situation I described? ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2003, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/song-writing-credits-dispute-generic-the-smiths/182430/2 "2003-06-17T12:51:50Z")
Usually, royalties are paid to the songwriters named as songwriter. Other band members can sue, but they’d have to show that their names were deliberately left off. Now all the musicians are paid for their _performances_ of the song – either by the record company or by the concert venue. But they don’t get songwriter royalties for airplay unless they are listed as songwriter. Usually, the songwriter writes the main melody and lyrics, which gives them their status. Occasionally, a group credits everyone (the Doors did that) so they can all share, but that’s rare. ---
**Author:** ![MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bb73d2/32.png) [@MC\_Master\_of\_Ceremonies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MC_Master_of_Ceremonies)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2003, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/song-writing-credits-dispute-generic-the-smiths/182430/3 "2003-06-17T13:01:55Z")
NO, Morrisey and Marr were given the writing credit because they did indeed write the songs, the court case was about the performance royalties. ---
**Author:** ![JAPrufrock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@JAPrufrock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JAPrufrock)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2003, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/song-writing-credits-dispute-generic-the-smiths/182430/4 "2003-06-17T13:23:44Z")
:::Usually, royalties are paid to the songwriters named as songwriter. Other band members can sue, but they’d have to show that their names were deliberately left off. Now all the musicians are paid for their performances of the song – either by the record company or by the concert venue. But they don’t get songwriter royalties for airplay unless they are listed as songwriter. Usually, the songwriter writes the main melody and lyrics, which gives them their status. Occasionally, a group credits everyone (the Doors did that) so they can all share, but that’s rare.::: The issue isn’t really money (yet) because there isn’t any money (again, hopefully, yet!) The issue is more about people wanting credit for their work. The question is, where does writing end and arranging begin? I know it’s a fairly open-ended question, but there has to be some type of legal precedent for it. As for the the bands attributing all members, I don’t know how rare that is…Radiohead, The Cure…ok, that’s all I can think of off the top of my head, but there’s a decent number of bands that do it. Oh yea, one more thing, anyone hear about U2 losing out on the royalties to one of their albums because someone stole the master copy and copywrited it? ---
**Author:** ![Gotterfunken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/58956e/32.png) [@Gotterfunken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gotterfunken)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2003, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/song-writing-credits-dispute-generic-the-smiths/182430/5 "2003-06-17T15:17:55Z")
There has never been any dispute that Morrissey and Johnny Marr should be credited with full songwriting credits for The Smiths. [The court case](http://www.cemetrygates.com/vault/news/court.html) centered on the distribution of performance and recording royalties, as MC Master of Ceremonies points out–Moz and Marr were getting 40% each, while Mike Joyce and Andy Rourke were only gettin 10%. Joyce and Rourke insisted there had been a verbal agreement that these royalties would be divided equally, 25% for each band member. Incidentally, Morrissey wrote a lovely song detailing his perspective on Joyce’s lawsuit, called [Sorrow Will Come in the End](http://www.oz.net/~moz/lyrics/maladjus/sorrowwi.htm) > [@](#): > > You lied > And you were believed > By a J.P. senile and vile > You pleaded and squealed > And you think you’ve won > But Sorrow will come > To you in the end > And as sure as my words are pure > I praise the day that brings you pain Morrissey also makes a rather ominous reference to “a man who slits throat” who “has time on his hands.” Unsurpisingly, this song was never released on the British edition of _Maladjusted_. ---
**Author:** ![mack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mack)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2003, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/song-writing-credits-dispute-generic-the-smiths/182430/6 "2003-06-17T15:55:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JAPrufrock \* > \*\*The issue isn’t really money (yet) because there isn’t any money (again, hopefully, yet!) The issue is more about people wanting credit for their work. The question is, where does writing end and arranging begin? \*\* Money already _is_ an issue. The band is rehearsing somewhere. Someone is putting up money for studio time or bought recording and rehearsal equipment (or maybe the band is buying stuff out of gig money). Anyway - where the writing ends and arranging begins is up for negotiation. You have to sit down with your bandmates and haggle over who gets credit. It may not be the most pleasant task, but it has to be done. Maybe you’ll all agree that the band as a whole deserves all the credit. Maybe after a while you’ll realize that one or two people are doing the songwriting and the rest of the band are maybe fleshing out their parts in a unique way, but not really contributing to the writing effort. You need to be honest about it because if you’re in a band with great songs, but one person is doing all the songwriting, you don’t want to create a situation that will make that person leave your band (and ultimately doom it). Conversely, if you’re a songwriter who’s maybe weak in a couple of areas and only through the band are the songs brought to life, then you need to give credit where credit is due. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2003, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/song-writing-credits-dispute-generic-the-smiths/182430/7 "2003-06-17T16:00:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JAPrufrock \* > [BThe issue isn’t really money (yet) because there isn’t any money (again, hopefully, yet!) The issue is more about people wanting credit for their work. The question is, where does writing end and arranging begin? I know it’s a fairly open-ended question, but there has to be some type of legal precedent for it. \*\* It ultimately up to the band members. If they want to share songwriting credit, they can work that out among themselves. Legally, the people who are listed as songwriters get songwriter royalties; there’s no rule about how that’s determined For example, back in the 60s, Berry Gordy of Motown usually was listed as songwriter, though he didn’t write the songs. But it helped get him richer. Gene Roddenberry gets songwriter’s royalties every time the Star Trek theme is played; he wrote some (awful) lyrics just to cash in. Robert Altman’s son has cashed in on something similar: he wrote the lyrics for the song “Suicide is Painless,” better known as “The Theme from M_A_S\*H”). The words were sung in the movie, but left off the TV show. Still, he gets paid. Usually, the credit goes to the person who actually writes the songs. Arranging them usually isn’t enough. However, the group can decide it _is_ enough and credit all the members. If the song was credited to Songwriter A and becomes a hit, Arranger B would find it difficult to get royalties unless he can prove he was actually the songwriter – and even that might not be enough.