# Songs, films, tv shows etc. that were supposed to fail, but didn't. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 5, 2018, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-films-tv-shows-etc-that-were-supposed-to-fail-but-didnt/813652 "2018-05-05T18:41:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-films-tv-shows-etc-that-were-supposed-to-fail-but-didnt/813652/41 "2018-05-07T19:22:27Z")
Neil Simon’s 1981 play _Fools_ was written during his divorce from Marsha Mason. The divorce agreement stated that Mason would be entitled to the profits of his next play. The legend in the theater world has it that Simon deliberately wrote _Fools_ with the intention that it would be a Broadway flop, so that Mason wouldn’t get very much money. Was it a success anyway? Depends on how you look at it, I suppose. It didn’t last long on Broadway, closing after just 40 performances. On the other hand, it’s been performed pretty regularly since then in regional and community theaters, and has been adapted (twice!) as a musical. It’s not up to Simon’s usual standards, admittedly, but as plays go, it’s certainly not the worst thing I’ve ever seen, and it hasn’t been utterly forgotten the way a genuinely bad play probably would be. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-films-tv-shows-etc-that-were-supposed-to-fail-but-didnt/813652/42 "2018-05-07T19:53:07Z")
> [@MrAtoz](#): > > Neil Simon’s 1981 play _Fools_ was written during his divorce from Marsha Mason. The divorce agreement stated that Mason would be entitled to the profits of his next play… Long before the internet, I heard the story of the $100 Corvette/Cadillac/Mercedes a number of times. Same premise … husband ran off with bimbo (but without his car?!?), his lawyer demands the wife sell the car and wire him the full purchase price. Some variations had it be the family luxury car, and she had to split the income with him. One friend told it with a mounting sense of incredulity: “My brother couldn’t believe his luck. He kept asking 'Did someone die in this car? Is it stolen? And the wife kept saying ‘Hurry up, first hundred takes it, and I’ve got a bunch of buyers on their way…’” By the way, I’m amazed there were this many real-life “Springtime for Hitler” examples. Good work by **Doper Detectives, Inc.** ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-films-tv-shows-etc-that-were-supposed-to-fail-but-didnt/813652/43 "2018-05-07T20:06:26Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Again, not quite what I’m looking for here. I’m looking for media that was deliberately designed to fail, but succeeded anyway. Not sure there is very much of that to be found. The most likely would be an album someone half assed to fulfill a contract that ended up being a commercial success. I suppose there could be movies like that too. Not thinking of any specific examples though. Maybe something from Prince? ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-films-tv-shows-etc-that-were-supposed-to-fail-but-didnt/813652/44 "2018-05-07T21:12:47Z")
> [@MrAtoz](#): > > Neil Simon’s 1981 play _Fools_ was written during his divorce from Marsha Mason. The divorce agreement stated that Mason would be entitled to the profits of his next play. The legend in the theater world has it that Simon deliberately wrote _Fools_ with the intention that it would be a Broadway flop, so that Mason wouldn’t get very much money. I also heard the same story about Marvin Gaye’s divorce and his “Here My Dear” album. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-films-tv-shows-etc-that-were-supposed-to-fail-but-didnt/813652/45 "2018-05-08T00:44:34Z")
While perhaps not “designed to fail”, nobody expected Phil Collins’ first solo album, _Face Value,_ to do anything at all. The other two existing members of Genesis had already released solo records which had immediately faded into obscurity, so why would their pudgy lead singer be any different? ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-films-tv-shows-etc-that-were-supposed-to-fail-but-didnt/813652/46 "2018-05-08T01:27:20Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > Not sure there is very much of that to be found. The most likely would be an album someone half assed to fulfill a contract that ended up being a commercial success. I suppose there could be movies like that too. Not thinking of any specific examples though. Maybe something from Prince? At least a single. The Turtles (specifically Howard Kaylan) were having a fight with their label about the band’s direction. Kaylan wrote the most cliched, trite set of pop lyrics he could come up with. > [@](#): > > Elenore, gee, I think you’re swell > And you really do me well > You’re my pride and joy > Et cetera It turned out to be a bright, peppy tune that went to #6 on the charts. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-films-tv-shows-etc-that-were-supposed-to-fail-but-didnt/813652/47 "2018-05-08T01:39:58Z")
cormans fantastic 4 movie might fit but they never released it ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-films-tv-shows-etc-that-were-supposed-to-fail-but-didnt/813652/48 "2018-05-08T01:47:27Z")
The thing about “Timothy” that no one mentioned is that they were only down in that mine for an hour, ninety minutes tops. And Rupert Holmes has done a lot of stuff besides writing crappy sonjgs. > **[Rupert Holmes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rupert_Holmes)** > > David Goldstein (born February 24, 1947), better known as Rupert Holmes, is a British-American composer, singer-songwriter, dramatist and author. He is widely known for the hit singles "Escape (The Piña Colada Song)" (1979) and "Him" (1980). He is also known for his musicals The Mystery of Edwin Drood, which earned him two Tony Awards, and Curtains, and for his television series Remember WENN. > Holmes was born David Goldstein in Northwich, Cheshire, England. His father, Leonard Eliot Goldstei... ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-films-tv-shows-etc-that-were-supposed-to-fail-but-didnt/813652/49 "2018-05-08T01:50:51Z")
> [@nightshadea](#): > > cormans fantastic 4 movie might fit but they never released it Yeah, it fails on the “became a success anyway”…but I’ve seen it, and it would have flopped like a catfish in the bottom of a boat. ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-films-tv-shows-etc-that-were-supposed-to-fail-but-didnt/813652/50 "2018-05-08T15:17:03Z")
How about the 21st episode of _WKRP in Cincinnati_, “Fish Story”? This is the episode where Herb dresses up like a giant carp (KRP spells “carp,” you see) and gets into a fight with the WPIG mascot, dressed in a pig suit, while Johnny and Venus are taking an on-air sobriety test to demonstrate the dangers of drunk driving, with Johnny’s reaction time getting better the more he drinks. Although credited to the pseudonym “Raoul Plager,” this episode was actually written by series creator Hugh Wilson. He had been getting a lot of pressure from CBS to add more physical comedy and general “wackiness” to the show. He wrote “Fish Story” in response, packing it with slapstick and very broad humor. He was quite confident that the audience would reject that sort of low-brow “wacky hijinks” style of comedy, thus demonstrating that it just wasn’t right for WKRP. Much to his frustration, the episode was a huge success. It got fantastic ratings and became a fan favorite, which bugged Wilson for the rest of his life. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-films-tv-shows-etc-that-were-supposed-to-fail-but-didnt/813652/51 "2018-05-08T15:24:31Z")
It’s not that it was supposed to fail, but it was not supposed to succeed, which is a slightly different thing. Roger Corman owned the movie rights to _The Fantastic Four_, and made his own FF movie before the rights ran out, so that he could retain them. He didn’t tell the cast and crew that this was what was going on, apparently, so they gave it their all on a ridiculously low budget. as we’ve discussed on this Board (recently, in fact), the movie IS awful, but not as bad as you’d think, and it has achieved a bit of cult status. not exactly a success, but then, it wasn’t exactly a failure, either. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-films-tv-shows-etc-that-were-supposed-to-fail-but-didnt/813652/52 "2018-05-08T15:36:09Z")
No, Corman’s _FF_ was a definite failure-bad reviews, available only on bootleg for the longest time, and didn’t come close to making back it’s minuscule($1 million) budget. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-films-tv-shows-etc-that-were-supposed-to-fail-but-didnt/813652/53 "2018-05-08T16:08:13Z")
But it makes a great Bad Movie Night with the '97 Justice League movie. It’s much worse than Corman’s FF. Here’s a review, where we’re advised not to watch “this piece of dreck made by people who’ve never read a comic book in their lives.” [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/lJOfmhw5d8o/maxresdefault.jpg "Justice League of America Pilot Review") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJOfmhw5d8o) ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-films-tv-shows-etc-that-were-supposed-to-fail-but-didnt/813652/54 "2018-05-08T21:10:11Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > There is the phenomenon of a band being contractually obligated to release an album. They often won’t see much if any money from the album, especially if they’ve signed away songwriting credits. > > So one option is to release something un-listenable. This is supposedly the reason for “Metal Machine Music”. Another option is to release an album full of covers. [When the Rolling Stones were finishing up with their record label Decca in 1970, the company insisted they were still contractually obliged to provide them with one more single:](https://www.popmatters.com/always-trying-to-waste-me-2496180079.html) the Stones, disagreeing, gave them as a a farewell track the deliberately unreleasable [“Cocksucker Blues”.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4fUTuiURag) Which, as a stripped back minimal blues, actually works pretty well with a great, haunting vocal performance from Mick Jagger, but Decca shat a lung at lines like > [@](#): > > Oh, where can I get my cock sucked? > Where can I get my ass fucked? and the song was shelved. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-films-tv-shows-etc-that-were-supposed-to-fail-but-didnt/813652/55 "2018-05-08T23:32:07Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > Decca shat a lung at lines like… Ummm, those two lines were LOUD. I think the neighbors walking by with a stroller heard it… ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-films-tv-shows-etc-that-were-supposed-to-fail-but-didnt/813652/56 "2018-05-09T00:09:19Z")
> [@digs](#): > > Ummm, those two lines were LOUD. I think the neighbors walking by with a stroller heard it… What did they make of these lines? > [@](#): > > Well, I’ve had pigs in the farmyard > Some of them, some of them, they’re alright > Well, he fucked me with his truncheon > And his helmet was way too tight ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2018, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-films-tv-shows-etc-that-were-supposed-to-fail-but-didnt/813652/57 "2018-05-09T00:22:50Z")
Pfft. That’s just a Tuesday-out-for-a-stroll evening in the midwest… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-films-tv-shows-etc-that-were-supposed-to-fail-but-didnt/813652.md?page=2)