# Songs that "steal" from other songs (not sampled) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 22, 2012, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-that-steal-from-other-songs-not-sampled/622727 "2012-05-22T15:55:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2017, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-that-steal-from-other-songs-not-sampled/622727/101 "2017-03-30T17:56:40Z")
Van Morrison’s [_Beautiful Vision_](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq4VvE2s0V0)is dominated by the first five notes of James Carr’s [_A Message To You_](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGOhz2vsh4Q). This phrase never returns in Carr’s song, but is quintessential for Morrison’s. And in [_Avalon Of The Heart_](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uoQT_X5LhU), Morrison rips off his own ripoff. And that’s the man who complained about being ripped off himself his whole artistic life. I love him still. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2017, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-that-steal-from-other-songs-not-sampled/622727/102 "2017-03-30T18:09:17Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > That’s really odd. I’ve heard that song a zillion times and never noticed that before. > > Could it have been edited out in some versions, due to copyright or something? I hadn’t heard it either, until a band I was doing sound for did the song. I thought they had decided to add “Give peace a chance” themselves, but when I commented on it, they told me it was in the original. As **Biffy** says, it’s in the background and easy to miss. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2017, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-that-steal-from-other-songs-not-sampled/622727/103 "2017-03-30T18:54:33Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > I hadn’t heard it either, until a band I was doing sound for did the song. I thought they had decided to add “Give peace a chance” themselves, but when I commented on it, they told me it was in the original. > > As **Biffy** says, it’s in the background and easy to miss. I listened to the studio cut on YouTube and I most definitely had not heard that before. It’s unmistakably there. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2017, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-that-steal-from-other-songs-not-sampled/622727/104 "2017-03-30T19:35:03Z")
> [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > Van Morrison’s [_Beautiful Vision_](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq4VvE2s0V0)is dominated by the first five notes of James Carr’s [_A Message To You_](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGOhz2vsh4Q). This phrase never returns in Carr’s song, but is quintessential for Morrison’s. And in [_Avalon Of The Heart_](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uoQT_X5LhU), Morrison rips off his own ripoff. And that’s the man who complained about being ripped off himself his whole artistic life. I love him still. Correction. James Carr’s song is titled _A Message To Young Lovers_. Somehow it was cut in editing, but still made a reasonable song title :). ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-that-steal-from-other-songs-not-sampled/622727/105 "2017-03-30T20:14:19Z")
Neil Young’s Harvest Moon uses the Everly Brothers intro. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/RMA-_ElvKsk/hqdefault.jpg "NEIL YOUNG HARVEST MOON") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMA-_ElvKsk) Walk Right Back [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/c048o_KvWsA/hqdefault.jpg "The Everly Brothers -- Walk Right Back") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c048o_KvWsA) ---
**Author:** ![Tullhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f475e1/32.png) [@Tullhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tullhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-that-steal-from-other-songs-not-sampled/622727/106 "2018-07-21T14:12:53Z")
I’ve never heard anyone else mention this, but the opening line of Journey’s 1st Top 40 hit: “Lovin’, Touchin’, Squeezin’” is an unmistakable, nearly note-for-note homage to the late Sam Cooke classic, “Nothing Can Change This Love” Not only is the melody duplicated, but the lyrics mirror the first stanza of Cooke’s second verse. Cooke: “Oooh, make me weep, And you can make me cry” Journey: “You make me weep, I wanna cry” Finally, in addition to the melody, the lyrics, and their mood all being near knock-off’s, Steve Perry incorporates the exact same vocal melisma on the word ‘weep’ that Sam Cooke uses on the word ‘weep’ in his own song. Once you hear it all, it can’t be unheard. The similarity is entirely too close to be anything other than intentional. However, I don’t think Journey is guilty of anything here but paying tribute. I believe there should be a 3rd category for this forum: “Stolen, Sampled or Homage” ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-that-steal-from-other-songs-not-sampled/622727/107 "2018-07-21T14:38:59Z")
I can’t believe I didn’t post this in the thread the first time, but the most notorious (IMO) example of this is the song [Down Under](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfR9iY5y94s/new) by Men At Work. [From Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_Under_(song)): > [@](#): > > In 2007, on the ABC-TV quiz show Spicks and Specks the question was posed “What children’s song is contained in the song Down Under?” The answer, “Kookaburra”, a song whose rights were owned by Larrikin Music, resulted in phone calls and emails to Larrikin the next day.[16] Larrikin Music subsequently decided to take legal action against the song’s writers Colin Hay and Ron Strykert. > > Sections of the flute part of the recording of the song were found to be based on “Kookaburra”, written in 1932 by Marion Sinclair. Sinclair died in 1988[6] and the rights to the Kookaburra song were deemed to have been transferred to publisher Larrikin Music on 21 March 1990.[17] In the United States, the rights are administered by Music Sales Corporation in New York City. > > In June 2009, 28 years after the release of the recording, Larrikin Music sued Men At Work for copyright infringement, alleging that part of the flute riff of “Down Under” was copied from “Kookaburra”. The counsel for the band’s record label and publishing company (Sony BMG Music Entertainment and EMI Songs Australia) claimed that, based on the agreement under which the song was written, the copyright was actually held by the Girl Guides Association.[18][19] On 30 July, Justice Peter Jacobson of the Federal Court of Australia made a preliminary ruling that Larrikin did own copyright on the song, but the issue of whether or not Hay and Strykert had plagiarised the riff was set aside to be determined at a later date.[20] > > On 4 February 2010, Justice Jacobson ruled that Larrikin’s copyright had been infringed because “Down Under” reproduced “a substantial part of Kookaburra”.[21] > > When asked how much Larrikin would be seeking in damages, Larrikin’s lawyer Adam Simpson replied: “anything from what we’ve claimed, which is between 40 and 60 per cent, and what they suggest, which is considerably less.”[22][23][24] In court, Larrikin’s principal Norman Lurie gave the opinion that, had the parties negotiated a licence at the outset as willing parties, the royalties would have been between 25 and 50 per cent.[25] On 6 July 2010, Justice Jacobson handed down a decision that Larrikin receive 5% of royalties from 2002.[25][26] In October 2011, the band lost its final court bid when the High Court of Australia refused to hear an appeal.[27] > > Until this high-profile case, “Kookaburra”'s standing as a traditional song combined with the lack of visible policing of the song’s rights by its composer had led to the general public perception that the song was within the public domain.[28][29] > > The revelation of “Kookaburra”'s copyright status, and more so the pursuit of royalties from it, has generated a negative response among sections of the Australian public.[30][31][32][33] In response to unsourced speculation of a Welsh connection, Dr Rhidian Griffiths pointed out that the Welsh words to the tune were published in 1989 and musicologist Phyllis Kinney stated neither the song’s metre nor its lines were typical Welsh.[29] > > Colin Hay has since suggested that the deaths of his father, Jim, in 2010, and of Men at Work flautist Greg Ham in 2012 were directly linked to the stress of the court case. ---
**Author:** ![jimmydingo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/eb9ed0/32.png) [@jimmydingo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimmydingo)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-that-steal-from-other-songs-not-sampled/622727/108 "2018-07-21T16:35:21Z")
I read through most of the thread and didn’t see these mentioned. “Rockin’ U.S.A.” by The Beach Boys is pretty much “Sweet Little Sixteen” by Chuck Berry. “Wonderwall” by Oasis uses almost exactly the same chords and progression as “For Your Love” by the Yardbirds. I sometimes meld those ones together around the campfire. ---
**Author:** ![dorvann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df705f/32.png) [@dorvann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorvann)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-that-steal-from-other-songs-not-sampled/622727/109 "2018-07-21T17:03:41Z")
There are similarities between Nirvana’s “Smells Like Teen Spirit” and Boston’s “More Than Feeling”. There also similarities between Queen’s “Under Pressure” and Vanilla Ice “Ice Ice Baby”. (It’s not sampling; Vanilla Ice himself said it’s not the same and they added an extra din dink. 😃 Yes, that interview was pretty cringe-inducing) ---
**Author:** ![jimmydingo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/eb9ed0/32.png) [@jimmydingo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimmydingo)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-that-steal-from-other-songs-not-sampled/622727/110 "2018-07-21T17:24:17Z")
Just remembered, Metallica’s “The Frayed Ends of Sanity” opens with a little “Wizard of Oz” motif. (Oh we oh) ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-that-steal-from-other-songs-not-sampled/622727/111 "2018-07-21T18:03:26Z")
Kenny Loggins’ “Footloose” sounds to me like it’s directly referencing “Funk 49” by The James Gang. Funk 49: [James Gang - Funk #49 - YouTube](https://youtu.be/U_qHU_6Ofc0) Footloose: [Footloose - Kenny Loggins - YouTube](https://youtu.be/wFWDGTVYqE8) ---
**Author:** ![Jeff\_Lichtman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeff_lichtman/32/1531_2.png) [@Jeff\_Lichtman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff_Lichtman)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-that-steal-from-other-songs-not-sampled/622727/112 "2018-07-21T18:47:07Z")
In 1961 the Don Shirley Trio (a semi-obscure jazz group) recorded a version of the folk song _Water Boy_. It contains a passage that’s so similar to _Put Your Hand in the Hand_ by Ocean (written by Gene MacLellan) that it must have been stolen. [Here’s the Don Shirley passage](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR9d1l6oOxI&t=178s). [Here’s _Put Your Hand in the Hand_ by Ocean](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulh5Y71Qwk0). ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2018, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-that-steal-from-other-songs-not-sampled/622727/113 "2018-07-22T00:58:53Z")
> [@rat\_avatar](#): > > I find it interesting that so many responses call out people who copied from the Beatles while not noting the documented cases of them pulling melodies, bass lines and other elements directly from other artists works. The Dutch website that hosts Alan Pollack’s masterful analyses of every Beatles song also includes links to two longer essays that show unintentional similarities in chords and melodies between: When the Saints Go Marching In —\> I Saw Her Standing There Georgia on my Mind —\> Yesterday ---
**Author:** ![JpnDude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/838e76/32.png) [@JpnDude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JpnDude)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2018, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-that-steal-from-other-songs-not-sampled/622727/114 "2018-07-23T07:40:00Z")
Disney does this often in their in park entertainment. They incorporate a part of the classic “When You Wish Upon a Star” into new parade or show music. An example can be heard in an old [Tokyo DisneySea show](https://youtu.be/poLnTbXGlck?t=334). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-that-steal-from-other-songs-not-sampled/622727.md?page=5)