# Songs that try to use mythology to add gravitas and look smart that totally F it up. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 14, 2017, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-that-try-to-use-mythology-to-add-gravitas-and-look-smart-that-totally-f-it-up/804458 "2017-12-14T00:59:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-that-try-to-use-mythology-to-add-gravitas-and-look-smart-that-totally-f-it-up/804458/41 "2017-12-14T18:45:43Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Really? I’m intrigued. It was a hobbit that crept away with the ring, not golum, and Sauron had nothing to do with it and would have been alarmed to learn the ring was being taken to Mt. Doom or whatever to be destroyed, and he didn’t encounter the ring in Mordor he encountered it at a bar. Other than all that, it fits great. :smack: > > A girl so fair being a metaphor for a ring is pretty unique. Seeing as they bitched up everyth8ng else possible about the reference, what makes you think they got that part right and intended girl to mean ring? I wonder if RikWriter got the idea from this guy (see paragraph 7: > **[The Tolkien-Zeppelin Connection](https://metalstorm.net/pub/article.php?article_id=65)** > > International heavy metal webzine featuring forums, publications, news, and archives. The guy makes a lot of claims that seem made up: _The girl mentioned in the song, as well in another song “Over the Hills and Far Away” is not actually a female, but the Ring. Throughout the saga of Frodo, Sam, Aragorn and the others, the Ring is referred to as a beautiful lady, and is often called “precious”._ Where is the Ring ever called a beautiful lady and how does he know that about “Over the Hills and Far Away”? In the next paragraph the claim regarding the lady being the ring in “Over the Hills and Far Away” seems like a stretch. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-that-try-to-use-mythology-to-add-gravitas-and-look-smart-that-totally-f-it-up/804458/42 "2017-12-14T19:13:52Z")
Spice Weasel: Oops. I was wrong again, which is funny because when I first heard the song I thought it was “I guess Lorraine’s down in Africa.” And thought it was about a guy who had a girl friend who left him and joined the peace corps or something, which seemed fitting because between that and Rosanna the fat ugly hairy guys of Toto didn’t seem to have much luck holding on to their women. My brother corrected and told me it was “I guess the rain” ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-that-try-to-use-mythology-to-add-gravitas-and-look-smart-that-totally-f-it-up/804458/43 "2017-12-14T19:20:32Z")
X-ray: I don’t know where that guy gets that stuff. I never recall the ring being described as a beautiful woman in the saga, and I think Ramble On is clearly about Aragorn, whose nickname is Strider. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-that-try-to-use-mythology-to-add-gravitas-and-look-smart-that-totally-f-it-up/804458/44 "2017-12-14T19:31:00Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > For a ring? > > They say “In the darkest depths of Mordor I met a girl so fair and then Golum and the evil one crept up and slipped away with her.” > > That would be a hell of a tortured metaphor for a ring, don’t you think? I’m sticking with my favorite misheard lyric: “Gollum, and his evil walk, crept up and slipped away with her” because I really dig the imagery of a pimp-stepping Gollum. ---
**Author:** ![Tzigone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Tzigone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tzigone)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-that-try-to-use-mythology-to-add-gravitas-and-look-smart-that-totally-f-it-up/804458/45 "2017-12-14T20:01:54Z")
> [@](#): > > Grundy was never a regular Superman foe. He was an opponent of the golden age Green Lantern. Yes, he was a GA Green Lantern foe. I did see on DCwikia though, that he appeared a handful of times in the Silver Age in Superman comics, though. And was in 18 episodes of Super Friends, though I have no idea who he fought there. I agree with OP that Batman’s the great detective, but think he’s also known for fighting prowess. I have no idea where “Spiderman’s control” comes from - it’s never been a special element of his character, nor do I recall him ever exhibiting any control other than that that basically every super-strong hero used. Really, though I guess it’s all for the rhyme. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-that-try-to-use-mythology-to-add-gravitas-and-look-smart-that-totally-f-it-up/804458/46 "2017-12-14T20:10:35Z")
It’s just rhyming and meter. They don’t care about the accuracy. A lot of bands come up with the music first and put in words later. My guess is the vocalist came up with the chorus line first, “I want something just like this,” then thought of words to rhyme with “this,” then constructed lyrics around those words. Reverse engineering. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-that-try-to-use-mythology-to-add-gravitas-and-look-smart-that-totally-f-it-up/804458/47 "2017-12-14T20:14:00Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > It’s just rhyming and meter. They don’t care about the accuracy. A lot of bands come up with the music first and put in words later. > > My guess is the vocalist came up with the chorus line first, “I want something just like this,” then thought of words to rhyme with “this,” then constructed lyrics around those words. Reverse engineering. I know I’m more picky about lyrics than the average person. My favorite part of music is very often the words. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-that-try-to-use-mythology-to-add-gravitas-and-look-smart-that-totally-f-it-up/804458/48 "2017-12-14T20:20:49Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Well, yeah, but the point is, Solomon Grundy was already a Silver Age character before then, not just a poat-1991 one. > > Heck, I knew who he was. I didn’t much care for him, but I knew him. So he wasn’t just an antiquated Golden Age villain. Yes and I remember in the Secret Society of Super Villains (IIRC) Supes though Grundy would be a easy fight, then Grundy walloped him- since Grundy is powered by magic. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-that-try-to-use-mythology-to-add-gravitas-and-look-smart-that-totally-f-it-up/804458/49 "2017-12-14T20:24:49Z")
You know, the fact that Superman rarely encountered Solomon Grundy only helps confirm the accuracy of the song lines insisting that Supes never made money saving the world from him. The real question is [does Superman dislike flying](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRz4FY0ZcwI)? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-that-try-to-use-mythology-to-add-gravitas-and-look-smart-that-totally-f-it-up/804458/50 "2017-12-14T20:34:16Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > The Kilimanjaro Olympus thing makes sense to me. Olympus is the home to the Gods in Greece, and is such a commanding presence. I hear that line and I picture a pantheon of African deities commanding Africa, and I imagine Kilimanjaro as a similar commanding presence. I’ve never seen it referring so much as “Olympus the actual mountain” as “Olympus home of the gods”, yeah, which kind of is more impressive than the actual mountain. The line would be equivalent to “Kilimanjaro rises like the most impressive mountain ever”, but with better rythm. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2017, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-that-try-to-use-mythology-to-add-gravitas-and-look-smart-that-totally-f-it-up/804458/51 "2017-12-14T20:47:38Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > You know, the fact that Superman rarely encountered Solomon Grundy only helps confirm the accuracy of the song lines insisting that Supes never made money saving the world from him. > > The real question is [does Superman dislike flying](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRz4FY0ZcwI)? I regret to inform you that Superman’s dead. But fear not! The world’s a subway. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-that-try-to-use-mythology-to-add-gravitas-and-look-smart-that-totally-f-it-up/804458/52 "2017-12-15T10:07:00Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Gyrate, do you know if that dichotomy first came from Nietzsche, or predates him? Just curious. [Wikipedia says](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollonian_and_Dionysian) it’s a German thing: > [@](#): > > Although the use of the concepts of the Apollonian and Dionysian is linked to Nietzsche’s The Birth of Tragedy, the terms were used before him in German culture.[1] The poet Hölderlin spoke of them, while Winckelmann talked of Bacchus, the god of wine. Rudolf Steiner as well treated in depth of the Apollonian and Dionysian (called “Apollinisches und Dionysisches” in German) and placed them in the general history and spiritual evolution of mankind. but Nietzsche appears to be the main vector for the idea. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-that-try-to-use-mythology-to-add-gravitas-and-look-smart-that-totally-f-it-up/804458/53 "2017-12-15T11:49:35Z")
Not quite mythology, but has that vibe… Neil Young and Crazy Horse’s “Cortez the Killer” is well-intentioned – I’m all for highlighting the brutality of the Spanish conquest, and lamenting the deep loss of fascinating indigenous cultures – BUT the song is undermined by asserting that the Aztecs “never knew war.” Actually, they were conquerors themselves, having expanded ther empire throughout the 1400s. And were famously not very nice to prisoners of war. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-that-try-to-use-mythology-to-add-gravitas-and-look-smart-that-totally-f-it-up/804458/54 "2017-12-15T12:42:08Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I love Toto’s “Africa” but “I know that I must do what’s right / As sure as Kilimanjaro rises like Olympus above the Serengeti” irritates the crap out of me. Apart from the fact that it’s nonsense, “this mountain rises just like a completely different mountain” isn’t exactly deathless verse even if one intends to imply some sort of deity involvement. That’s completely overlooking that you can’t really _see_ Kilimanjaro from the Serengeti, never mind it rising above… ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2017, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-that-try-to-use-mythology-to-add-gravitas-and-look-smart-that-totally-f-it-up/804458/55 "2017-12-15T12:48:37Z")
In “We Are the World,” Willie Nelson sings a very silly line written by Lionel Richie or Michael Jackson: " As God has shown us by turning stones to bread… " WHAT? Where in the Bible did God ever do that??? The closest thing came when Jesus was tempted by the devil in the desert. Jesus had been fasting and was hungry. The devil dared Jesus to turn stones into bread, and Jesus refused. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2017, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-that-try-to-use-mythology-to-add-gravitas-and-look-smart-that-totally-f-it-up/804458/56 "2017-12-23T01:25:13Z")
Grundy was part of the Legion of Doom, arch nemesises… nemesi? of the Superfriends, which included Superman as a permanent member and never once even hinted at the existence of Alan Scott (GA GL). Heck even Hal Jordan (SA GL) was only around every once in a while. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-that-try-to-use-mythology-to-add-gravitas-and-look-smart-that-totally-f-it-up/804458.md?page=2)