# Songs with historical errors that bug you **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** music\ **Created:** [August 28, 2023, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-with-historical-errors-that-bug-you/989246 "2023-08-28T21:37:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Ponch8](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponch8/32/9883_2.png) [@Ponch8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponch8)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-with-historical-errors-that-bug-you/989246/81 "2023-08-30T15:21:00Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > I feel like it kind of adds to it? True. It could be the fictional Stan’s misconception rather than Eminem’s, for all we know. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-with-historical-errors-that-bug-you/989246/82 "2023-08-30T15:25:03Z")
> [@Ponch8](#): > > It could be the fictional Stan’s misconception rather than Eminem’s, for all we know. Ooooooooh. Is THAT why the kids call what used to be “white knighting” “stanning”? ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-with-historical-errors-that-bug-you/989246/83 "2023-08-30T15:29:30Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > At the same time, I urge you to think about why it might be that the portrayal of Aztecs is so uniquely bloodthirsty. Does it seem oddly convenient that everything we knew about the Aztecs (until other people got suspicious and did a bit more digging) came from sources written by the very people who wiped out the Aztec culture entirely in a very intentional way? I agree with your general view. I would like to point out Spanish monarchs wanted to know about these people and Codeces were written with native help to inform monarchs of the nature of their new vassals. Priests at the time were very much warning people back home about the indignities Spanish soldiers delivered on native populations. And all of these people came from the same time period and national stock of a people just finished with conquest on one peninsula only to take it to two continents. Perhaps if you believed the Sun God needed hearts to keep the rains coming you’d be cool with it, but the sacrifice situation was horrific and your wading into Noble Savage territory by apologizing for it. ---
**Author:** ![Ponch8](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponch8/32/9883_2.png) [@Ponch8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponch8)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-with-historical-errors-that-bug-you/989246/84 "2023-08-30T15:31:22Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Ooooooooh. Is THAT why the kids call what used to be “white knighting” “stanning”? Yes it is. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-with-historical-errors-that-bug-you/989246/85 "2023-08-30T15:36:49Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > By convention, Toronto has a downtown, an east end, a west end, and a north end. No south anything, nor any sides. The geographical center of Boston is in Roxbury. Due north of the center we find the South End. This is not to be confused with South Boston which lies directly east from the South End. North of the South End is East Boston and southwest of East Boston is the North End. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-with-historical-errors-that-bug-you/989246/86 "2023-08-30T15:40:19Z")
I’m thinking Johnny Horton took a wee bit of artistic license in his telling of “The Battle of New Orleans”: _We fired our cannon 'til the barrel melted down_ _So we grabbed an alligator and we fought another round_ _We filled his head with cannonballs ‘n’ powdered his behind_ _And when we touched the powder off, the gator lost his mind_ ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-with-historical-errors-that-bug-you/989246/87 "2023-08-30T15:58:10Z")
When I first started working in Boston, I kind of gave up for a while on making sense of any of it. Other than the north side of my town was facing east, and the east side was facing south. > **[Neighborhoods in Boston](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neighborhoods_in_Boston#/media/File:Boston_ONS_Neighborhoods.svg)** > > Boston's diverse neighborhoods serve as a political and cultural organizing mechanism. The City of Boston's Office of Neighborhood Services has designated 23 Neighborhoods in the city: > The islands in Boston Harbor are administered as part of the Boston Harbor Islands National Recreation Area. > The Boston Redevelopment Authority, the City Parking Clerk, and the City's Department of Neighborhood Development have also designated their own neighborhoods. Unofficially, Boston has many overlapping ... ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-with-historical-errors-that-bug-you/989246/88 "2023-08-30T15:58:27Z")
Don’t be silly. If you put cannonballs in an alligator’s mouth, and light gunpowder around his tail, he’s clearly going to die. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-with-historical-errors-that-bug-you/989246/89 "2023-08-30T16:02:44Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > [Once I was The King of Spain - Moxy Fruvous](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpGV1jOqk4I) > > I have not googled it, but I call bullshit. That band also has a song about the lowest highest point (by state) in the United States, and they get that wrong too. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-with-historical-errors-that-bug-you/989246/90 "2023-08-30T16:02:58Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Perhaps if you believed the Sun God needed hearts to keep the rains coming you’d be cool with it, but the sacrifice situation was horrific and your wading into Noble Savage territory by apologizing for it. Horrific, yes. More horrific than other kinds of war, no, not really; we’re just used to the horrors of pitched battle and siege. I hardly think I am **apologizing** for it. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-with-historical-errors-that-bug-you/989246/91 "2023-08-30T16:16:07Z")
You are comparing horror and implying Spanish Christians didn’t like one (sacrifice) because they weren’t used to it and alright with others they are familiar with and the savagery that did happen regularly should be accepted as a cultural difference. You do this from your couch. And I didn’t say you WERE doing it, you’re just testing the waters at this moment. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-with-historical-errors-that-bug-you/989246/92 "2023-08-30T16:21:40Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > The geographical center of Boston is in Roxbury. Due north of the center we find the South End. This is not to be confused with South Boston which lies directly east from the South End. North of the South End is East Boston and southwest of East Boston is the North End. None of that matters, though. What really matters is whether the water in the Charles River is actually dirty. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-with-historical-errors-that-bug-you/989246/93 "2023-08-30T16:44:16Z")
It was at the time the song was written. They were working in cleaning it up, but didn’t get serious until 1965 > **[Charles River | History of pollution and remediation efforts](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_River#History_of_pollution_and_remediation_efforts)** > > As sewage, industrial wastewater and urban runoff flowed freely into the river from the surrounding city, the Charles River became well known for its high level of pollutants, gaining such notoriety that by 1955, Bernard DeVoto wrote in Harper's Magazine that the Charles was "foul and noisome, polluted by offal and industrious wastes, scummy with oil, unlikely to be mistaken for water." Fish kills and submerged vehicles were a common sight, along with toxic chemical plumes that colored parts Onc... ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-with-historical-errors-that-bug-you/989246/94 "2023-08-30T17:27:53Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > You are comparing horror and implying Spanish Christians didn’t like one (sacrifice) because they weren’t used to it and alright with others they are familiar with I absolutely stand by that. The Spanish, need I remind you, killed plenty of “infidels” in the name of _their_ God at the very same time. Flaying a Jew in the name of Jesus was righteous, but flaying a captive in the name of Xipe Totec was horrific. Of _course_ that difference is down to cultural practices, and of _course_ the reason we see one as significantly more horrific than the other is down to cultural familiarity. However, I object to this bit: > [@](#): > > and the savagery that did happen regularly should be accepted as a cultural difference. Neither should be accepted as a cultural difference. We can condemn both late medieval Spain as well as the Aztec empire. We can also understand the societal contexts in which humans are driven to act in extreme ways. I am not here saying, “the Aztecs weren’t that bad”. I am here saying, “The people spending so much time writing about how horrific the Aztecs were did so for practical reasons and we should take their perspective into account when we consider their narrative” or “Cortez and his ilk wouldn’t hesitate to “sacrifice” hundreds of peasants and their crops in order to starve out the lord of a castle - that’s how siege warfare worked”. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-with-historical-errors-that-bug-you/989246/95 "2023-08-30T19:17:29Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > The idea that the Aztecs were uniquely bloodthirsty Human sacrifice on that level is pretty unique. There is quite a difference between killing one another in battle, and human sacrifice. > [@Jackmannii](#): > > Lastly, they were shot down by semi-automatic rifles (not carbines to my knowledge), as well as shotguns and pistols. The _351 Winchester_ Self-Loading weapon _can_ be described as a carbine , even tho Winchester called it a rifle. That cartridge is just a tad more powerful than .30 carbine and less powerful than 30/30. Calling that gun a carbine is not that big of an error. But you are correct about the rest. They were evil killers, and died like the dogs they were. _Sink the Bismarck-_ “On her deck were guns as big as steers and shells as big as trees”. No, just the other way around. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-with-historical-errors-that-bug-you/989246/96 "2023-08-30T19:20:44Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Human sacrifice on that level is pretty unique. There is quite a difference between killing one another in battle, and human sacrifice. And there’s quite a difference between killing one another in battle and razing a village to the ground. Or flaying people alive because they worship the same deity through the wrong lens. Again, it’s very telling that what is put into or left out of the narrative. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-with-historical-errors-that-bug-you/989246/97 "2023-08-30T19:38:00Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > Other than the north side of my town was facing east, and the east side was facing south. Are you just a substitute? 🙂 Speaking of Boston, if his wife can pass poor Charlie a sandwich, she can pass him a nickle. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-with-historical-errors-that-bug-you/989246/98 "2023-08-30T19:40:55Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Speaking of Boston, if his wife can pass poor Charlie a sandwich, she can pass him a nickle. Even as a small child I asked this. But I’ll still vote for George O’Brien. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-with-historical-errors-that-bug-you/989246/99 "2023-08-30T19:55:43Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > Couldn’t have been. By convention, Toronto has a downtown, an east end, a west end, and a north end. No south anything, nor any sides. Just like there’s no region in Canada known as “southern Canada.” There’s Atlantic Canada, the Maritimes, Central Canada, the Prairies, Western Canada, and the North, but no Southern Canada. ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2023, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-with-historical-errors-that-bug-you/989246/100 "2023-08-30T20:08:53Z")
I wondered about that when we sang that song in elementary school! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-with-historical-errors-that-bug-you/989246.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songs-with-historical-errors-that-bug-you/989246.md?page=6)