# Songwriters in their 30's... **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 16, 2011, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songwriters-in-their-30s/585740 "2011-06-16T20:50:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![samjones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@samjones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samjones)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songwriters-in-their-30s/585740/41 "2011-06-17T15:34:04Z")
> [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > Eh, I didn’t say anything about “Veronica”, it isn’t on any of the albums I mentioned. And I like any of those songs you gave here, but it’s just a fact that I like some of his later stuff as well. For the case you didn’t get the message from my last post, here it is again: the reception of art is _subjective_. Yeah, I know, but everything he ever did after 30 just sucks - well, no “King of America” is good, but everything that T-Bone Burnett ever did is good. Other than that KoA - “Veronica” is pretty much the only thing even slightly memorable - and not memorable in an entirely good way. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songwriters-in-their-30s/585740/42 "2011-06-17T15:59:41Z")
I give up. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songwriters-in-their-30s/585740/43 "2011-06-17T16:10:02Z")
> [@samjones](#): > > Make no mistake - Heart of Gold is Neil Young’s signature song. I don’t see how it’s landmark status should be questioned. It’s his signature pop trifle, but I thought this thread was about songwriting. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songwriters-in-their-30s/585740/44 "2011-06-17T16:14:57Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > It’s his signature pop trifle, but I thought this thread was about songwriting. 😉 Seconded. ETA: You’ll find few Neil Young fans who’d rank HoG among his best songs. ---
**Author:** ![rikc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c57346/32.png) [@rikc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rikc)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songwriters-in-their-30s/585740/45 "2011-06-17T16:25:54Z")
I’ve never seen anyone try so damned hard to ruin their own thread. ---
**Author:** ![samjones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@samjones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samjones)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songwriters-in-their-30s/585740/46 "2011-06-17T16:27:48Z")
> [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > Seconded. > > ETA: You’ll find few Neil Young fans who’d rank HoG among his best songs. Feel free to replace it with Albuquerque if that makes you feel better. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songwriters-in-their-30s/585740/47 "2011-06-17T16:42:41Z")
> [@samjones](#): > > Feel free to replace it with Albuquerque if that makes you feel better. No, I won’t play your “Here’s my good song, tell me yours”-game. That’s ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Rain\_Soaked](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e19adc/32.png) [@Rain\_Soaked](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rain_Soaked)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songwriters-in-their-30s/585740/48 "2011-06-17T16:48:03Z")
> [@rikc](#): > > I’ve never seen anyone try so damned hard to ruin their own thread. Agreed. I gave up a while ago. ---
**Author:** ![samjones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@samjones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samjones)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songwriters-in-their-30s/585740/49 "2011-06-17T18:23:32Z")
> [@Rain\_Soaked](#): > > Agreed. I gave up a while ago. In your FACE! Now that we all agree that I am correct and that men lose the ability to write a song at the age of 30 (Logan’s Run-like) we can talk about the reason I started this thread in the first place. Tom Waits. Tom Waits’ appeal has not diminished over 4 separate decades with the college audience and the people who listened to him in college probably still listen to him now. As we move into decade 5 there is a new album in the works and I predict that the 18-22 year old men will still dig it now, just like they have for 40 years. Pretty impressive. Nobody else ever did that. Elvis Costello grovels at Tom Waits feet. Bruce Springsteen would love to be able to release an album that people give a shit about. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songwriters-in-their-30s/585740/50 "2011-06-17T18:33:00Z")
Your last post is the final nail in the coffin for me to leave this thread. What a bizarre build-up for your agenda. Bye. ---
**Author:** ![samjones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@samjones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samjones)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songwriters-in-their-30s/585740/51 "2011-06-17T18:34:06Z")
> [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > Your last post is the final nail in the coffin for me to leave this thread. What a bizarre build-up for your agenda. Bye. Bye EinsteinsHund! Don’t leave angry! ---
**Author:** ![rikc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c57346/32.png) [@rikc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rikc)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songwriters-in-their-30s/585740/52 "2011-06-17T18:58:25Z")
> [@samjones](#): > > Now that we all agree that I am correct and that men lose the ability to write a song at the age of 30 (Logan’s Run-like) we can talk about the reason I started this thread in the first place. Except you’ve ignored every one of the examples I gave (one of whom isn’t even a man!). In your FACE! I really hope your Tom Waits thread goes well for you, though. Thanks for making a Tom Waits thread. Thanks to your clever thread we’ve all finally realized that he is pretty good. ---
**Author:** ![samjones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@samjones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samjones)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songwriters-in-their-30s/585740/53 "2011-06-17T19:07:20Z")
> [@rikc](#): > > Except you’ve ignored every one of the examples I gave (one of whom isn’t even a man!). > > In your FACE! > > I really hope your Tom Waits thread goes well for you, though. Thanks for making a Tom Waits thread. Thanks to your clever thread we’ve all finally realized that he is pretty good. I sense sarcasm and that makes me think that you’re only being a sore loser. I guess I did kindof ignore your examples. Maybe I just wasn’t that interested in talking about Andy Partridge. There are a couple of people in this thread who have entitlement issues. They feel like they have a right to disagree with anyone they want but they don’t feel like anyone else has a right to disagree with them. They can all leave the thread if they want. Not a problem for me. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songwriters-in-their-30s/585740/54 "2011-06-17T19:23:54Z")
**samjones** , the cardinal rule at the SDMB is “don’t be a jerk.” That includes being insulting and dismissive of people who disagree with you. Dial it way back. No warning issued. **twickster** , Cafe Society moderator > [@samjones](#): > > In your FACE! > > Now that we all agree that I am correct and that men lose the ability to write a song at the age of 30 (Logan’s Run-like) we can talk about the reason I started this thread in the first place. > > Tom Waits. > > Tom Waits’ appeal has not diminished over 4 separate decades with the college audience and the people who listened to him in college probably still listen to him now. As we move into decade 5 there is a new album in the works and I predict that the 18-22 year old men will still dig it now, just like they have for 40 years. Pretty impressive. > > Nobody else ever did that. Elvis Costello grovels at Tom Waits feet. Bruce Springsteen would love to be able to release an album that people give a shit about. > [@samjones](#): > > Bye EinsteinsHund! Don’t leave angry! > [@samjones](#): > > I sense sarcasm and that makes me think that you’re only being a sore loser. I guess I did kindof ignore your examples. Maybe I just wasn’t that interested in talking about Andy Partridge. > > There are a couple of people in this thread who have entitlement issues. They feel like they have a right to disagree with anyone they want but they don’t feel like anyone else has a right to disagree with them. > > They can all leave the thread if they want. Not a problem for me. ---
**Author:** ![CaveMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cavemike/32/16379_2.png) [@CaveMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaveMike)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songwriters-in-their-30s/585740/55 "2011-06-17T19:41:38Z")
> [@samjones](#): > > See - I have a hard time seeing how Paul Simon is an example of a songwriter who’s best work was done in his 30’s. I’m confused as to the criteria of the OP. Does the artist have to have their best work in the 30’s? Does their work in the 30’s have to be better than their work in their 20’s? Or does their work in the 30’s have to match the work in the 20’s? Your posts seem contradictory. Could you clarify please? Also, does an artist need to have great work in the 20’s? Or will a mediocre artist do? ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songwriters-in-their-30s/585740/56 "2011-06-17T19:48:22Z")
> [@CaveMike](#): > > I’m confused as to the criteria of the OP. Is the artist Tom Waits? That’s not a question, that’s the criteria. ---
**Author:** ![samjones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@samjones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samjones)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songwriters-in-their-30s/585740/57 "2011-06-17T19:56:55Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > **samjones** , the cardinal rule at the SDMB is “don’t be a jerk.” That includes being insulting and dismissive of people who disagree with you. I think you’re right twickster. I’m sorry if I hurt your friends’ feelings. I was under the impression that most of them had already left the thread. I’m just not really all that impressed with anything Elvis Costello has done recently. That’s all. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songwriters-in-their-30s/585740/58 "2011-06-17T21:42:24Z")
> [@samjones](#): > > I think you’re right twickster. I’m sorry if I hurt your friends’ feelings. I was under the impression that most of them had already left the thread. Cute, **samjones** , but you’re still being a jerk. Don’t do it again. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songwriters-in-their-30s/585740/59 "2011-06-17T22:59:32Z")
> [@samjones](#): > > Every cool song Elvis Costello ever wrote was written before he turned 30. All of them. After 30 is was bullshit like Favorite Mistake and Veronica What nonsense. _Brutal Youth_ is as good as _anything_ he ever did. _All This Useless Beauty_, _When I Was Cruel_, _King of America_, _Blood and Chocolate_, _Mighty Like a Rose_…all right up there. _National Ransom_ may not sound remotely like the same guy who did _My Aim Is True_, but it’s fucking brilliant. Elvis Costello could be the poster child for this thread. And “My Favorite Mistake” is a Sheryl Crow song. If you mean the excellent “Brilliant Mistake,” would that there were more “bullshit” out there as good as that. ---
**Author:** ![samjones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@samjones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samjones)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2011, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songwriters-in-their-30s/585740/60 "2011-06-17T23:52:09Z")
> [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](#): > > What nonsense. _Brutal Youth_ is as good as _anything_ he ever did. _All This Useless Beauty_, _When I Was Cruel_, _King of America_, _Blood and Chocolate_, _Mighty Like a Rose_…all right up there. _National Ransom_ may not sound remotely like the same guy who did _My Aim Is True_, but it’s fucking brilliant. Elvis Costello could be the poster child for this thread. > > And “My Favorite Mistake” is a Sheryl Crow song. If you mean the excellent “Brilliant Mistake,” would that there were more “bullshit” out there as good as that. That’s really my problem with EC lately - he sounds too much like Sheryl Crow. Plus he idolizes Tom Waits too much. It’s like an embarrassing mix of Sheryl Crow and Rod Stewart. Whatever happened to guy who sang All the Angels Wanna Wear My Red Shoes? That was some music. I guess he must have done some great songs in the last 20 years but nothing jumps to mind. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songwriters-in-their-30s/585740.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songwriters-in-their-30s/585740.md?page=4)