# Songwriters with Something to Say **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 11, 2004, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songwriters-with-something-to-say/259429 "2004-08-11T21:35:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![interface2x](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c0e974/32.png) [@interface2x](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/interface2x)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songwriters-with-something-to-say/259429/21 "2004-08-13T02:53:18Z")
I’ll go out on a limb and say **Ronan Harris** (VNV Nation). And also **Claude Strillio** of Anything Box, but only sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songwriters-with-something-to-say/259429/22 "2004-08-13T05:48:13Z")
How about **Wilco**? And I think **Beck** would qualify, at least on the experimental, avante-garde side. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songwriters-with-something-to-say/259429/23 "2004-08-13T11:00:27Z")
OK, here are some of my responses. Thank you all for giving me some more bands/people to seek out. [ul] [li] **NOFX** : What are you smoking, and where can I get some? NOFX is a punk band that’s built large parts of its ouvre on songs about sex, drugs, and rock’n’roll, not politics or social protest. I have a good sampling of their albums, and very few songs are about anything that would stand up as a talking point outside a punk song.[/li][li] **REM** : Tell me what Stipe is saying, and maybe I’ll agree with you. Seriously, very few of their songs are comprehensible to me at all: They all sound profound as hell, but when you try to pry meaning from the lyrics you find there’s no _there_ there. I’m a big REM fan, but I stopped trying to understand them a long time ago.[/li][li] **Pink Floyd** , **Queen** , and **The Who** : These are the bands I was getting at in my ‘one level’ statement in the OP. They _do_ say things that transcend the genre, they _do_ use code and allusion, but their poetry doesn’t have more than one level to it. Once you get that _The Wall_ is about a man’s inner demons isolating him from the world, that’s it. You can apply it to the people around you, but the album itself has nothing more to say.[/li][/ul] Perhaps it’s a limitation of the genre itself. Maybe you can’t write _The Great Gatsby_ in the form of an LP, or set an Emily Dickenson poem to a chord progression. ---
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songwriters-with-something-to-say/259429/24 "2004-08-13T11:07:01Z")
Howzabout Paul Simon and Thom Yorke? ---
**Author:** ![jinty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dbc845/32.png) [@jinty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jinty)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songwriters-with-something-to-say/259429/25 "2004-08-13T12:28:53Z")
> [@dry gear](#): > > Are you kidding? Wayne Coyne? Frank Black? Tom Waits? > Well, they didn’t say anything cliched, but I’d put them in the just weird category. Well I looked at the OP and it said “multi-layered poetry or true imagery”. So… Wayne Coyne fer-example: Do you realize That you have the most beautiful face? Do you realize We’re floating in space? Do you realize That happiness makes you cry? Quite poetic, I’d say. YMMV. As for Frank Black, if his stuff ain’t multi-layered poetry, I dunno what it is. And the line “her body a rocking chair for my soul” has always struck me as something special. Tom Waits. Are _you_ kidding? How about “Making feet for children’s shoes” (think about it for a sec) or “Broken umbrellas like dead birds; steam comes out of the grill like the whole goddamn town is ready to blow.” or “The captain is a one-armed dwarf He’s throwing dice along the wharf” or “And I’m lost in the window, and I hide in the stairway And I hang in the curtain, and I sleep in your hat” Well again, YMMV. Didn’t say what _you_ consider poetry, did you? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songwriters-with-something-to-say/259429/26 "2004-08-13T12:42:50Z")
The answer is **Morrisey**. Smiths or solo. Now, what was the question? ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songwriters-with-something-to-say/259429/27 "2004-08-13T14:03:30Z")
Leonard Cohen? ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songwriters-with-something-to-say/259429/28 "2004-08-13T15:16:27Z")
> [@Ilsa\_Lund](#): > > Howzabout Paul Simon and Thom Yorke? I don’t know much about Paul Simon’s solo career beyond “Call Me Al”, so I’ll just say that Simon & Garfunkle never struck me as particularly deep. Radiohead is the emotionally deepest music I listen to. I’ve never really looked at Thom’s lyrics, though, even though they are often beautiful. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songwriters-with-something-to-say/259429/29 "2004-08-13T15:55:25Z")
Ani DiFranco. Here’s partial lyrics to the song [“Fuel”:](http://www.danah.org/Ani/LittlePlasticCastle/Fuel.html) > [@](#): > > they were digging a new foundation in manhattan > and they discovered a slave cemetary there > may their souls rest easy > now that lynching is frowned upon > and we’ve moved on to the electric chair > and i wonder who’s gonna be president, tweedle dum or tweedle dummer? > and who’s gonna have the big blockbuster box office this summer? > how about we put up a wall between houses and the highway > and you can go your way, and i can go my way > except all the radios agree with all the tvs > and all the magazines agree with all the radios > and i keep hearing that same damn song everywhere i go > maybe i should put a bucket over my head > and a marshmellow in each ear > and stumble around for > another dumb-numb week for another hum drum hit song to appear Greg Brown is also amazing (and both of these two have toured together). Lyrics for [The Poet Game](http://gregbrown.org/gbpoetg1.html#poetgame) > [@](#): > > I watched my country turn into > a coast-to-coast strip mall > and I cried out in a song: > if we could do all that in thirty years, > then please tell me you all - > why does good change take so long? > Why does the color of your skin > or who you choose to love > still lead to such anger and pain? > And why do I think it’s any help > for me to still dream of > playing the poet game? ---
**Author:** ![TastesLikeBurning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@TastesLikeBurning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TastesLikeBurning)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songwriters-with-something-to-say/259429/30 "2004-08-13T17:10:36Z")
The first one that springs to mind for me would have to be Billy Bragg. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songwriters-with-something-to-say/259429/31 "2004-08-13T17:44:07Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Radiohead is the emotionally deepest music I listen to. I’ve never really looked at Thom’s lyrics, though, even though they are often beautiful. Read [Pyramid Song](http://www.greenplastic.com/lyrics/rh_songs/pyramidsong.php) sometime, though maybe it doesn’t count since it draws from Dante. Or [How to Disappear Completely](http://www.greenplastic.com/lyrics/rh_songs/howtodisappear.php) or [True Love Waits](http://www.greenplastic.com/lyrics/rh_songs/truelovewaits.php), I always thought those were among their best efforts lyrically. I know next to nothing about Tom Waits, but if [Going Out West](http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/GOING-OUT-WEST-lyrics-Dr-Feelgood/7AC2D69FE98B99B948256AE8001EAE88) isn’t a great example of using details to create a character, I don’t know what is. And you get lines like “Well my parole officer Will be proud of me Got my Olds 88 And the devil on a leash” . . . "I’m gonna drive all night Take some speed I’m gonna wait for the sun To shine down on me I cut a hole in my roof In the shape of a heart And I’m going out west Where they’ll appreciate me" ---
**Author:** ![Ms\_Boods](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5e9695/32.png) [@Ms\_Boods](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms_Boods)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songwriters-with-something-to-say/259429/32 "2004-08-13T17:44:12Z")
Ray Davies, as mentioned above, but also **Dave Davies** is no slouch either; he has penned a number of sly, witty, and thoughtful songs and poems himself. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2004, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songwriters-with-something-to-say/259429/33 "2004-08-13T17:50:22Z")
I always thought the Offspring had songs that were equally capable of being listened to artistically as well as for their message. Of course it’s not exactly the expected message from a punk band. ---
**Author:** ![gyt\_fx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/74df32/32.png) [@gyt\_fx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gyt_fx)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2004, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songwriters-with-something-to-say/259429/34 "2004-08-14T20:41:59Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > [ul] > [li] **NOFX** : What are you smoking, and where can I get some? NOFX is a punk band that’s built large parts of its ouvre on songs about sex, drugs, and rock’n’roll, not politics or social protest. I have a good sampling of their albums, and very few songs are about anything that would stand up as a talking point outside a punk song.[/li][/ul] Well you should definitely check out their latest album: War on Errorism. Some songs include: The Separation of Church and Skate; which deals with how punk rock is so toned down and G-rated. Franco Un-American; Which is their single that is about Bush, and has a lot of political lyrics in it. Medio-Core; which is about how watered down mainstream music is and it all sounds the same. And some other from that CD. But also… you’ve got songs like She’s Nubs, which is about a punk rock girl w/o hands or feet, just nubs; Whoops I Od’d, etc. The best song, is The Decline. It’s a 17 minute song and it’s on it’s own CD. You should check it out, especially if you are skeptical that this… 17 minute PuNk RoCk song might be any good :rolleyes:. ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2004, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songwriters-with-something-to-say/259429/35 "2004-08-14T21:06:24Z")
**The Tragically Hip**. They sing about Canada, about the [geography](http://www.lyricsondemand.com/t/tragicallyhiplyrics/bobcaygeonlyrics.html)[traditions](http://www.lyricsondemand.com/t/tragicallyhiplyrics/fireworkslyrics.html) and the [urban legends](http://www.lyricsondemand.com/t/tragicallyhiplyrics/fiftymissioncaplyrics.html) and the [stories](http://www.lyricsondemand.com/t/tragicallyhiplyrics/yearsoldlyrics.html) we share. If Rush deserves the Order of Canada, The Hip do too. Also, Dar Williams just slays me. Her later stuff isn’t as “deep” as her first few albums, but her music is always beautiful. \*So I walked out into the Gamma fields Out in Mercury, Nevada. Where I stood in circle and that circle started to pray. And the wind at the nuclear test sights floats the data at the radiation. From the underground testing, Cross the line, you’ll get arrested. And we came from all over in a silent appeal As the drill comes down like a presidential seal. And we stand for the living, and we stand for the dead, And we looked out to see your enemies, And we see that you’re looking all at us instead. And you think I am being disruptive? But no I’m running home, I’m running, 'Cause I’m trying to put the atom back together. It’s the Great Unknown. I’m just trying to put the atom back together. It’s the Great Unknown. \* ---
**Author:** ![dry\_gear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@dry\_gear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dry_gear)\ **Post date:** [August 15, 2004, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songwriters-with-something-to-say/259429/36 "2004-08-15T07:20:51Z")
> [@jinty](#): > > Well I looked at the OP and it said “multi-layered poetry or true imagery”. So… > > Wayne Coyne fer-example: > Do you realize > That you have the most beautiful face? > Do you realize > We’re floating in space? > Do you realize > That happiness makes you cry? > > Quite poetic, I’d say. YMMV. > > As for Frank Black, if his stuff ain’t multi-layered poetry, I dunno what it is. And the line “her body a rocking chair for my soul” has always struck me as something special. > > Tom Waits. Are _you_ kidding? How about > “Making feet for children’s shoes” (think about it for a sec) or > “Broken umbrellas like dead birds; steam comes out of the grill like the whole goddamn town is ready to blow.” or > “The captain is a one-armed dwarf > He’s throwing dice along the wharf” or > “And I’m lost in the window, and I hide in the stairway > And I hang in the curtain, and I sleep in your hat” > > Well again, YMMV. Didn’t say what _you_ consider poetry, did you? Ahh! Don’t hurt me! I misinterpreted the OP. I thought it meant political things, not artistic. In that case, I agree with you. All are brilliant. I personally love the lyrics to Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots pt. 1: “She’s gotta be strong to fight them/ so she’s taking lots of vitamins” And the deeper stuff is also great. Frank Black is practically in a world of his own lyrically. “Your head will collapse/ And there’s nothing in it and you’ll ask yourself/ Where is my mind?” “I will sit on the roof/ on top of my abstract house/ see an abstract view/ an abstract mouse” “If man is five…/ then the devil is six…/ and if the devil is six / then God is seven” “Your daddy’s rich/ Your mama’s a … pretty nice lady!” Tom Waits’s song “Poor Edward” seriously creeped me out. He’s also really good at a more subtle type of chill with stuff like “What’s He Building in There?” Woodie Guthrie is who I’ll nominate. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songwriters-with-something-to-say/259429/37 "2004-08-16T16:25:59Z")
**stpauler** : But those lyrics are very straightforward political pieces, aren’t they? I’m looking for more poetic subjects. **gyt\_fx** : Again, I don’t like political songs. I can get politics from real news sources and magazines. (By the way, I like punk. I like NOFX’s other albums, but I won’t buy War on Errorism because of my aforementioned dislike of political songs.) **Marley23** : Thanks for the recommendations. **kung fu lola** : That sounds close to what I’m after, even though it is, again, political. As I said, I probably set my standards too high. This thread seems to be saying that “meaningful” in a rock context usually means political, and that political commentary is almost always straightforward and single-layered. Hell, even _Radiohead_ did Hail To The Thief (another album I don’t own). (If you want a quick refresher on how to make more literary political commentary, check out Swift’s Gulliver’s Travels, especially the story of Blefuscu and Lilliput.) ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songwriters-with-something-to-say/259429/38 "2004-08-16T16:58:14Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > **stpauler** : But those lyrics are very straightforward political pieces, aren’t they? I’m looking for more poetic subjects. Hmm, the first verse of “Fuel” may be thought of as such (which is the one I quoted) but the third verse says: > [@](#): > > and they say that alcoholics are always alcoholics > even when they’re as dry as my lips for years > even when they’re stranded on a small desert island > with no place in 2,000 miles to buy beer > and i wonder > is he different? > is he different? > has he changed? what’s he about?.. > or is he just a liar with nothing to lie about? It’s a big subject change that makes the sum of the parts different than looking at them as seperate pieces. It’s the same way with Greg Brown’s lyrics: > [@](#): > > I had a friend who drank too much > and played too much guitar - > and we sure got along. > Reel-to-reels rolled across > the country near and far > with letters poems and songs… > but these days he don’t talk to me > and he won’t tell me why. > I miss him every time i say his name. > I don’t know what he’s doing > or why our friendship died > while we played the poet game. In Greg Brown’s poet game, the first verse I quoted is singing about the possible futility of singing about the causes he believes in. The sad realization that his voice won’t make a difference. This “poet game” was something he believed in at the beginning of the song, something handed down by his grandfather and then he slowly came to understand its power (or lack thereof) and considers abandoning it at the end. It seems like a direct song in points, but it has a different underlying meaning. It’s a lot like Joni Mitchell’s “Big Yellow Taxi”. The first verse and chorus make it seem like a song about the environment but the last [verse:](http://www.jmdl.com/lyrics/BigYellowTaxi.cfm) > [@](#): > > Late last night > I heard the screen door slam > And a big yellow taxi > Took away my old man Well, that changes the whole meaning of the song, from just a ditty about the environment to a song that talks about losing the things dear to us. If you’re looking for more obtuse lyrics, check out GB’s song [Sadness](http://gregbrown.org/gbpoetg1.html#sadness) from the same CD where he personifies sadness as a woman seducing him into her folds: > [@](#): > > ## Sadness come to my house with a stinking bouquet, smiled with her thin gray lips and said, “Honey, I’m home to stay.” > > ## She took off her party dress and her tear stained brassiere, came so close I could smell her and said “Kiss me here and here.” > > ## She said, “Don’t you remember what you did to that one, to the other one, too? Well, I’ve just come to do exactly the very same thing to you.” > > She said, “Honey, I’ve come to love you. > I’m gonna hook you 'til you burn - > and then I’ll go and you will never know > just when I may return.” ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2004, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songwriters-with-something-to-say/259429/39 "2004-08-16T18:17:02Z")
> [@gyt\_fx](#): > > Well you should definitely check out their latest album: War on Errorism. > Some songs include: > The Separation of Church and Skate; which deals with how punk rock is so toned down and G-rated. > […] > Medio-Core; which is about how watered down mainstream music is and it all sounds the same. Maybe I should stay out of this, but I don’t think that meets the criteria he mentioned. Musicians complaining about other musicians, and how ‘the scene’ isn’t as good as it used to be, should be its own damn genre by now. Do punks do that the most, or is it just me? It’s not social commentary, and it doesn’t really have any meaning outside the punk scene. Likewise, complaining that mainstream music sucks isn’t social commentary or original (true as it may be). **Derleth** , I don’t think political songs should be opposed to the news. The news is pretty much supposed to lay out the facts, a song is not. A song that just says ‘Bush sucks’ might not be poetry or very insightful, but a good political song could frame the issue in a new way or, in the case of some good punk stuff, bring some humor to the topic. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2004, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songwriters-with-something-to-say/259429/40 "2004-08-17T00:21:05Z")
Would this count? > [@](#): > > Time marches on > Time stands still > Time on my hands > Time to kill > Blood on my hands > And my hands in the till > Down at the 7-11 > Gentle rain > Falls on me > All life folds back > Into the sea > We contemplate eternity > Beneath the vast indifference of heaven > > The past seems realer than the present to me now > I’ve got memories to last me > When the sky is gray > The way it is today > I remember the times when I was happy > > Same old sun > Same old moon > It’s the same old story > Same old tune > They all say > Someday soon > My sins will all be forgiven > Gentle rain > Falls on me > All life folds back > Into the sea > We contemplate eternity > Beneath the vast indifference of heaven > > \ **The Indifference of Heaven** - _Warren Zevon_ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/songwriters-with-something-to-say/259429.md?page=1)