# Sons of Anarchy 9/11 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 10, 2012, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sons-of-anarchy-9-11/634311 "2012-09-10T18:27:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2012, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sons-of-anarchy-9-11/634311/101 "2012-11-09T07:54:18Z")
I hope not. That would be too weird. Maybe the forbidden nature of what happened with Otto turned her on or something. Oh well. I’m sure we’ll find out more next week. ---
**Author:** ![azraiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@azraiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/azraiel)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2012, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sons-of-anarchy-9-11/634311/102 "2012-11-10T08:15:57Z")
Question for those commenting on the most recent episode: how long was it when you watched? I ask because of [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15642990&postcount=88) announcement. I watched the most recent episode (Ep9) on amazon Wednesday, and it was the usual 45 minute length. I watched it again today and it was 53 minutes long. Differences include a scene in the graveyard with Nero and Gemma (absent in the shorter cut) and extended scenes at the cabin (with the club) and at the prison (with Tara and Otto). In short, I wonder if we’re all watching the same thing. I was mighty confused about Tara’s final scene on initial watch. I was much less so after watching the extended cut. ETA: length is without commercials. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2012, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sons-of-anarchy-9-11/634311/103 "2012-11-10T18:10:47Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > The Latina woman who helps him run his business in the show is Smits’ real-life partner [Wanda de Jesus](http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0208962/). They’ve been together over 25 years. I remember when she did a guest spot in an early season of _NYPD Blue_. Ah, that explains a lot. The woman can’t act her way out of a paper bag - pompous, stiff, bitchy, delivers lines like she learned them phonetically. She did a turn back in B5 and was hilariously bad; too bad being in the aura of such a gifted actor/partner hasn’t rubbed off on her in all that time. Which, neither here nor there, we were slack-jawed at realizing a minor but compelling character late in Season 3 of B5 was none other than Brian Cranston. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2012, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sons-of-anarchy-9-11/634311/104 "2012-11-10T22:24:59Z")
I thought that she did really well as the madam/half-sister. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2012, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sons-of-anarchy-9-11/634311/105 "2012-11-10T22:35:41Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > I thought that she did really well as the madam/half-sister. Well, she was well cast for the role. But I kept seeing her lock her jaw and glare instead of act… that being her entire range. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2012, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sons-of-anarchy-9-11/634311/106 "2012-11-10T23:24:48Z")
It nailed that part. Some of the best acting I have ever seen was Agent Stahl from the first few seasons. ---
**Author:** ![Bambro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df705f/32.png) [@Bambro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bambro)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2012, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sons-of-anarchy-9-11/634311/107 "2012-11-14T14:54:46Z")
I’m kinda digging the “I got this” theme going on this season. You hear that and you know shit is about to go down. So what are your thoughts on Tara being an accessory to murder? Would she really be charged in real life with that? I admit to being law ignorant, so I don’t know for sure. I had assumed it would have had to have been intentional/premeditated. Obviously Otto had it planned out, but Tara was just a patzy in the whole thing. ---
**Author:** ![azraiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@azraiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/azraiel)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sons-of-anarchy-9-11/634311/108 "2012-11-15T03:19:20Z")
> [@Bambro](#): > > So what are your thoughts on Tara being an accessory to murder? Would she really be charged in real life with that? I admit to being law ignorant, so I don’t know for sure. I had assumed it would have had to have been intentional/premeditated. Obviously Otto had it planned out, but Tara was just a patzy in the whole thing. I am also wholly ignorant of the law. Dramatically, the concern is that she intentionally committed an illegal act that precipitated murder. That is: she knew the crucifix was contraband and brought it into the prison anyway, committing a felony. She gave the crucifix to Otto knowing it was contraband, perhaps also a felony. Otto used the contraband to commit murder (kinda certain that’s a felony). It’s not that she knew Otto’s intent, but that she willingly committed a felony that precipitated another felony. Hence the ‘accessory’ charge. Again, IANAL. Then again, fuck lawyers. This is a soap opera. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sons-of-anarchy-9-11/634311/109 "2012-11-15T08:41:07Z")
IANAL, either, but: Intent is a biggie, and she can’t be proven to have intent to help him kill someone. All she really has to say is that he asked her for a crucifix so he could pray, and since he was restrained, she saw no problem with it. She wasn’t the one who released his restraints, and since she wasn’t done with him, wasn’t expecting anyone else to do so. He could have just as easily grabbed any other loose object in that room when his restraints were released, or else just used his bare hands. It’s nowhere near entirely her fault that he killed someone with such lax security precautions. I’d think the worst that would realistically happen is that she’d no longer be allowed in the prison. The show might not go the realistic way, though. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sons-of-anarchy-9-11/634311/110 "2012-11-15T16:44:23Z")
I’m a little tired (_a little??_) of the need for concrete proof of Clay’s guilt. If someone put a bullet in his head 2 seasons ago, everyone’s lives would be better. ---
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sons-of-anarchy-9-11/634311/111 "2012-11-15T17:16:16Z")
> [@Typo\_Negative](#): > > I’m a little tired (_a little??_) of the need for concrete proof of Clay’s guilt. If someone put a bullet in his head 2 seasons ago, everyone’s lives would be better. I think this episode reflected that sentiment from the fanbase. From Pope to Jax to Juice, the entire theme was soon. Not soon enough, in my book. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sons-of-anarchy-9-11/634311/112 "2012-11-15T17:22:52Z")
Soon. That gets back to Hamlet on bikes. Hamlet wants a ghost to give him proof. He dawdles and waits. It all goes to shit. Jax and Chibbs kill the mook who was the tool that killed Opie, but Jax cozies up to Pope, the guy who ordered it, who informed Jax he ordered it before it happened and crowed about it afterwards. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sons-of-anarchy-9-11/634311/113 "2012-11-15T23:37:45Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Jax and Chibbs kill the mook who was the tool that killed Opie, but Jax cozies up to Pope, the guy who ordered it, who informed Jax he ordered it before it happened and crowed about it afterwards. But you know Jax is planning on killing him. He will NOT give up Tig. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sons-of-anarchy-9-11/634311/114 "2012-11-16T00:55:58Z")
I’d give up Tig. And Pope ought to know damn well that he is targeted. ---
**Author:** ![HazelNutCoffee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@HazelNutCoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HazelNutCoffee)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2012, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sons-of-anarchy-9-11/634311/115 "2012-11-16T02:44:24Z")
I think Jax killed the big dude not because he killed Op per se, but because he took so much pleasure in doing so. He might have let him live if the dude had been regretful about it, or even neutral, but he was pretty happy about beating Op to death. Maybe that’s harder to forgive than Pope’s cold-blooded decision. Also I kind of hope Jax gives up Tig. ---
**Author:** ![azraiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@azraiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/azraiel)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sons-of-anarchy-9-11/634311/116 "2012-11-19T04:35:11Z")
> [@voltaire](#): > > IANAL, either, but: > > Intent is a biggie, and she can’t be proven to have intent to help him kill someone. All she really has to say is that he asked her for a crucifix so he could pray, and since he was restrained, she saw no problem with it. She wasn’t the one who released his restraints, and since she wasn’t done with him, wasn’t expecting anyone else to do so. He could have just as easily grabbed any other loose object in that room when his restraints were released, or else just used his bare hands. It’s nowhere near entirely her fault that he killed someone with such lax security precautions. > > I’d think the worst that would realistically happen is that she’d no longer be allowed in the prison. The show might not go the realistic way, though. Going to have to disagree. It doesn’t matter what her intent was concerning the homicide. What matters is her intent regarding the felony _she_ committed. Since she intentionally committed a felony that precipitated a death, she is guilty of [felony murder](http://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?selected=741). As alluded to in the link, Tara might be on the hook for felony murder if it was _Otto_ killed in the altercation, even if a guard lawfully shot him. Again, IANAL. But I have read enough news accounts of a get-away driver (who never left the car) charged with murder when someone dies during a robbery to know that it’s a real thing in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sons-of-anarchy-9-11/634311/117 "2012-11-20T15:25:24Z")
> [@HazelNutCoffee](#): > > I think Jax killed the big dude not because he killed Op per se, but because he took so much pleasure in doing so. He might have let him live if the dude had been regretful about it, or even neutral, but he was pretty happy about beating Op to death. Maybe that’s harder to forgive than Pope’s cold-blooded decision. > > Also I kind of hope Jax gives up Tig. I’m thinking that Jax somehow stages a Tig v. Pope fight and then Jax takes out Tig, pockets the 5 million as his escape plan. ---
**Author:** ![Zeldar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b77776/32.png) [@Zeldar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeldar)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2012, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sons-of-anarchy-9-11/634311/118 "2012-11-20T19:39:00Z")
True fans, of which I count myself, might enjoy discussing points raised in [‘Sons of Anarchy’: Making a case for TV violence](http://tv.yahoo.com/news/sons-anarchy-making-case-tv-violence-125731604.html) As for Tig’s future, I can only hope for Kim Coates’s sake that Pope is the one who gets his Final Reward, by fire maybe. Recently I rewatched [Open Range (2003)](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0316356/) where Coates meets an unglamorous end to one of his typical roles as a baddie with few if any redeeming qualities. But I like Tig and feel his karma deserves a break. With duplicity and lying the keywords in the script-writing department, I sense that Sutter won’t give another Opie-styled departure to a major character this season. Maybe later. But Pope is another incarnation of the Stahl model of evil-incarnate that needs to be replaced. ---
**Author:** ![Bambro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df705f/32.png) [@Bambro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bambro)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sons-of-anarchy-9-11/634311/119 "2012-11-21T21:01:41Z")
I am looking for a link to possibly corroborate this a little, but the scuttlebutt that I’ve heard about last night’s episode is that the guy who beat the shit out of Otto and was following Tara may be John Teller. That would be some wild and crazy shit. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Bambro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/df705f/32.png) [@Bambro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bambro)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2012, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sons-of-anarchy-9-11/634311/120 "2012-11-21T21:34:55Z")
Ehhh…never mind. > **['Sons of Anarchy' Season 5 Casts 'Terriers' Star Donal Logue](https://screencrush.com/sons-of-anarchy-season-5-donal-logue/)** > [@](#): > > Appearing in the final three installments, Logue will play “brilliant and dangerous” U.S. Marshal Lee Toric, who is forced into retirement because of his history of violence. I think he’s going to have some sort of connection to the nurse that Otto killed. Maybe her husband or brother. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sons-of-anarchy-9-11/634311.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sons-of-anarchy-9-11/634311.md?page=7)