# Sony and the RIAA **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 25, 2007, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sony-and-the-riaa/405497 "2007-05-25T16:30:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dauerbach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c2a13f/32.png) [@dauerbach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dauerbach)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2007, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sony-and-the-riaa/405497/1 "2007-05-25T16:30:42Z")
After my daughter received a pre-suit letter from the RIAA, which I consider Sony to be the biggest member of, I decided to never buy another Sony CD. Then I realized that Sony is infesting our house. Ever since college, when the conventional wisdom was to always buy either Pioneer or Sony, depending on whether you like blue or green, I have loved Sony electronics. I have Sony TV’s, DVD players, VCR’s, camera’s, telephones, audio equipment, and even once owned a Vaio computer. I calculated that I have spend about $40,000 on Sony electronics in my lifetime, and was planning on shelling out about another $18,000 for a large plasma screen home theater with all the associated equipment. Well it ain’t going to be Sony equipment now, and I will never again buy another Sony product. I figure this is the way to really show my displeasure with them, their law firm, and the very questionalble reliability of the data that they collect to instigate their lawsuits. And once they threaten you, you quickly realize that it will cost much more to fight them than to just give them the money they ask for. I figure I can cost them MUCh more over time simply by boycotting all products produced by this electronics and media conglomerate. ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2007, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sony-and-the-riaa/405497/2 "2007-05-25T17:21:26Z")
Actually, you may buy a Sony manufcatured product without knowing it- many large manufacturers of this type make stuff and sell them to other companies, who in turn slap their own brand name on it. ---
**Author:** ![dauerbach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c2a13f/32.png) [@dauerbach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dauerbach)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2007, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sony-and-the-riaa/405497/3 "2007-05-25T17:26:34Z")
Well, I’m not going to research it, but I figure if I stay with name brands such as Toshiba, Hitachi, Pioneer, etc., I’m not likely to get a Sony product. ---
**Author:** ![ForumBot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ee59a6/32.png) [@ForumBot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ForumBot)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2007, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sony-and-the-riaa/405497/4 "2007-05-25T17:34:45Z")
Send a letter telling them this. Boycotts only work if companies know they’re being boycotted. I know that Sony supplies the batteries for pretty much every laptop on the market, and I’m sure they have their hand in plenty of other consumer electronics, but even if you can’t avoid giving them a few dollars, you can definitely decrease their revenue by buying something that’s made with a few of their components or even outright rebranded. ---
**Author:** ![dauerbach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c2a13f/32.png) [@dauerbach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dauerbach)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2007, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sony-and-the-riaa/405497/5 "2007-05-25T21:05:42Z")
I have already written them an email. Perhaps an honest to goodness letter would be better. Like I said, I have always gone out of my way, and sometimes paid more for Sony because I believed they made an excellent product. But so do lots of companies. It is fairly ironic they struck the daughter of one of their most loyal consumers. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2007, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sony-and-the-riaa/405497/6 "2007-05-26T07:33:21Z")
[QUOTE=dauerbach] After my daughter received a pre-suit letter from the RIAA, which I consider Sony to be the biggest member of, I decided to never buy another Sony CD. [/QUOTE] For those of us unfamiliar with this, could you explain why you’re angry at the RIAA? I googled RIAA and got [this about pre-lawsuits.](http://www.riaa.com/news/newsletter/050207.asp) > [@](#): > > New Wave of RIAA Pre-Lawsuit Letters > Targets Music Theft on 13 Campuses > > Northern Illinois University, University of Southern California, > University of South Florida and University of Tennessee Receive 50 Letters Each > > First Letters to Brandeis, Duke, MIT, Tufts, University of Iowa > Come in Fourth Wave of New Recording Industry Deterrence Program. . . > > A survey by Student Monitor from spring 2006 found that more than half of college students download music and movies illegally, and according to market research firm NPD, college students alone accounted for more than 1.3 billion illegal music downloads in 2006. While college students represented only 10 percent of the sample in the new online NPD study, they accounted for 26 percent of all music downloading on P2P networks and 21 percent of all P2P users. Furthermore, college students surveyed by NPD reported that more than two-thirds of all the music they acquired was obtained illegally. You’re angry because recording companies are enforcing their right not to have their music stolen? ---
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2007, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sony-and-the-riaa/405497/7 "2007-05-26T07:44:55Z")
[QUOTE=Heffalump and Roo] For those of us unfamiliar with this, could you explain why you’re angry at the RIAA? I googled RIAA and got [this about pre-lawsuits.](http://www.riaa.com/news/newsletter/050207.asp) You’re angry because recording companies are enforcing their right not to have their music stolen? [/QUOTE] It’s like boycotting Walmart for having your daughter arrested for stealing milk and clothing. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2007, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sony-and-the-riaa/405497/8 "2007-05-26T07:54:29Z")
[QUOTE=Heffalump and Roo] For those of us unfamiliar with this, could you explain why you’re angry at the RIAA? [/QUOTE] Psst. Look over [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=419572) ---
**Author:** ![Soapbox\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Soapbox\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soapbox_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2007, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sony-and-the-riaa/405497/9 "2007-05-26T11:11:27Z")
How else do you expect Sony to recoup from their astronomical losses caused by the PS3? ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2007, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sony-and-the-riaa/405497/10 "2007-05-26T12:04:30Z")
How else do you expect Sony to recoup from the astronomical losses by maintaining an outdated business model? ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2007, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sony-and-the-riaa/405497/11 "2007-05-26T13:54:50Z")
[QUOTE=Soapbox Monkey] How else do you expect Sony to recoup from their astronomical losses caused by the PS3? [/QUOTE] And the lawsuits incurred by installing spyware on people’s PCs which left them vulnerable to identity thieves and other hackers? ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2007, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sony-and-the-riaa/405497/12 "2007-05-26T21:03:37Z")
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan] And the lawsuits incurred by installing spyware on people’s PCs which left them vulnerable to identity thieves and other hackers? [/QUOTE] That’s the reason I don’t buy Sony anymore. No hardware, no software, no online services, nothing. Fuck 'em. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2007, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sony-and-the-riaa/405497/13 "2007-05-26T21:05:44Z")
[QUOTE=Heffalump and Roo] You’re angry because recording companies are enforcing their right not to have their music stolen? [/QUOTE] I don’t have the cite, but I’m sure someone will shortly. Sony was the company that fought to allow the technology that in turn allowed dubbing cassettes. Ironic, huh? ---
**Author:** ![dauerbach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c2a13f/32.png) [@dauerbach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dauerbach)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2007, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sony-and-the-riaa/405497/14 "2007-05-26T21:55:12Z")
Actually, that is exactly why. In the digital age the music industry truly needs to come up with a new business model. People are just doing what they always did, however, the scope has become enormous due to the ubiquity of computers and the internet. When I was in high school someone would have a new record I liked, but didn’t love and I would tape it to a reel to reel machine (yikes, yes I am that old). People buy music they really like and borrow stuff they only want to listen to once or twice. Copyright infringement, yes, but if 100 people download some songs by some new artist, at least some of them will buy it. None of them would before. Sure, there are people who download entire new releases of popular bands to truly steal them. My daughter was not one of them. And the RIAA has sued dead people, and 12 year olds, and in general caused a lot of trouble for a lot of people. And when you buy a Sony album the EULA contains such things as having you agree to remove the songs from you computer if you go bankrupt, die, or lose the original. And by the way, intellectual property laws are very different from real property laws. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2007, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sony-and-the-riaa/405497/15 "2007-05-26T22:36:53Z")
[QUOTE=duffer] I don’t have the cite, but I’m sure someone will shortly. Sony was the company that fought to allow the technology that in turn allowed dubbing cassettes. Ironic, huh? [/QUOTE] There was also [_Sony Corp. of America v. Universal City Studios, Inc._](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Corp._of_America_v._Universal_City_Studios%2C_Inc.), the suit that permitted home users to use their Sony Betamaxes to record television for later viewing. Deeply ironic. It would be awesome to see Sony hoisted by its own petard, so to speak. Robin ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2007, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sony-and-the-riaa/405497/16 "2007-05-26T23:11:31Z")
[QUOTE=MsRobyn] There was also [_Sony Corp. of America v. Universal City Studios, Inc._](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Corp._of_America_v._Universal_City_Studios%2C_Inc.), the suit that permitted home users to use their Sony Betamaxes to record television for later viewing. Deeply ironic. It would be awesome to see Sony hoisted by its own petard, so to speak. Robin [/QUOTE] Damnit, that’s what it was. Thanks, Robin. And congrats on your title, just noticed it. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2007, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sony-and-the-riaa/405497/17 "2007-05-26T23:45:27Z")
[QUOTE=duffer] Damnit, that’s what it was. Thanks, Robin. And congrats on your title, just noticed it. [/QUOTE] Thanks! Robin ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2007, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sony-and-the-riaa/405497/18 "2007-05-27T00:41:52Z")
[QUOTE=Rick] Psst. Look over [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=419572) [/QUOTE] Thanks, **Rick**. It would have helped if the OP linked to that thread although it hasn’t added any more clarity to read it. It just added more questions. The OP of that thread in its entirety: > [@dauerbach](#): > > So my daughter, the day her final exams are to start, is handed a letter by the dean of student affairs saying a law company is giving her 20 days to settle a copyright infringement case bases on file sharing on her computer before filing case in federal court. They want $3,000. I have not found much on the internet on this, but assume that they will settle for less. It seems what they really want is for everyone to cave as soon as possible. She broke the law, she was caught, I imagine she would loose in court and that that would cost lots more anyway. Two things she can prove is that she did not even have her computer on the day and time they say they found the files (and claimed she turned it off) plus she has no money. Does anyone know how low they will go to settle this claim? I would imagine the want something, but less than $3000 will do. I have a BIL who is a lawyer, so I can get a lawyer to talk to them. Anyone have experience with this? Also, why in hell is the dean of student affairs involved in helping the RIAA when I pay $45K per year for the school and due to privacy concerns they won’t give me her grades, let me prove I have medical insurance for her, or even give out her campus phone number to me. Are they getting a kickback? It seems strange that this school had 20 similar cases last year, 15 this year, but only 450 total were presued nationwide at Universities. In this OP, the OP author seems a lot more upset at the University for complying with the legal process of a lawsuit. So will the OP’s daughter be boycotting the university in the coming year? Please notice these words in this OP: **“She broke the law, she was caught”** It was interesting to me that he spent the rest of the thread trying to show that he/his daughter should be able to get off on technicalities. Will the OP/OP’s daughter be boycotting all movies and recordings done by Sony funded projects or recording studios? I’m guessing that Sony would have appreciated that they did so before this happened since the OP doesn’t have respect for the business model. And one more question to the OP who said several times that his daughter should not have gotten the note right before finals. When would it be a good time to get a notice like that? At the beginning of the semester when she would be distracted by that all semester long? In the middle of the semester where the same thing could happen? After finals when no one is on the campus to ask anything? In the middle of summer when everyone is relaxing? I’m guessing there is no good time to tell someone that they got caught stealing and therefore owe $3000. > [@dauerbach](#): > > In the digital age the music industry truly needs to come up with a new business model. It would be a lot more convincing for you to stand on this principle if you were standing on it before your daughter got caught stealing from the company that’s enforcing it. To extend **ParentalAdvisory** ’s analogy, that’s like boycotting Walmart after your child got caught stealing from the company and claiming that you’re doing so because you’re taking the high moral ground on the principle that Walmart treats its employees badly and uses sweatshops for its merchandise. Your stand is a lot more persuasive if you weren’t in Walmart to begin with if you didn’t believe in their policies. ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2007, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sony-and-the-riaa/405497/19 "2007-05-27T00:54:13Z")
[QUOTE=ParentalAdvisory] It’s like boycotting Walmart for having your daughter arrested for stealing milk and clothing. [/QUOTE] Stealing those items deprives other people of the opportunity to use them. Downloading a song does not interfere with anyone else being able to enjoy the song. When come back bring apt analogy, please. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2007, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sony-and-the-riaa/405497/20 "2007-05-27T01:08:36Z")
One of the problems with Sony (and I think this is brought up on Slashdot from time to time) is that Sony is both a hardware and a software (for lack of a better term) company. So Sony’s hardware divisions come up with some great stuff–videotape, MiniDisc, DAT, the Walkman, new displays, all kinds of stuff–and then everything is crippled by proprietary formats like ATRAC or through DRM or even legislation. All of that is due at least partially to the software half of Sony, whether it’s movies or music or software. MiniDisc could have filled a niche, and still could even now with the USB connection, but Sony has made it so difficult to use and tries to DRM everything and makes uploading through the USB connection difficult to impossible to the point where it’s not worth it. If only the hardware could be spun off into a different company, I bet the resulting hardware would be a lot better. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sony-and-the-riaa/405497.md?page=2)