# Sony rumored to say "No" to used games. Just like MS. **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 7, 2012, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sony-rumored-to-say-no-to-used-games-just-like-ms/618116 "2012-04-07T21:17:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sony-rumored-to-say-no-to-used-games-just-like-ms/618116/101 "2012-04-13T13:16:38Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#): > > There’s precedent. Sony [removed functionality](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_for_PlayStation_3) from the PS3: A Linux add-on that was used by almost no one (and wasn’t the primary point of the machine) is a whole different kettle of fish compared to adding in a disc registration system after-the-fact. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sony-rumored-to-say-no-to-used-games-just-like-ms/618116/102 "2012-04-13T23:14:49Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > A Linux add-on that was used by almost no one (and wasn’t the primary point of the machine) is a whole different kettle of fish compared to adding in a disc registration system after-the-fact. The salient point is that it was advertised, yet the capability was still removed, false advertising laws or no. The disc registration could just as easily be added in an update, false advertising laws or no. It would be dicey to apply it retro-actively to games already released, but it could be done for new games going forward. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sony-rumored-to-say-no-to-used-games-just-like-ms/618116/103 "2012-04-14T13:26:05Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#): > > The salient point is that it was advertised, yet the capability was still removed, false advertising laws or no. Sony was sued for false advertising over the Other OS bruhaha. But the case was thrown out because Other OS was considered an “internet service” by the courts because PS3 owners could continue to use it if they didn’t update their PS3’s firmware. Physical game discs wouldn’t fall under that same kind of protection. > **[Judge dismisses Sony 'Other OS' suit](https://www.gamespot.com/articles/judge-dismisses-sony-other-os-suit/1100-6347527/)** > > PlayStation 3 maker will not be held liable for decision to remove console functionality that inspired hacker attack. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sony-rumored-to-say-no-to-used-games-just-like-ms/618116/104 "2012-04-14T20:50:46Z")
You’re reading that wrong. The “internet service” was PSN, not Other OS. The judge ruled that Sony didn’t have to provide the ability to use Other OS _and also_ provide access to PSN. In the analogous situation, the consumer would have to choose between being able to play used games, _or_ being able to play online on the PSN. But we wouldn’t be able to do both. For the PS4, Sony could just be more careful what they say. “We have no plans at this time to disallow used games to be played.” and not “We guarantee you can play used games.”, and if later games can’t even be played offline without accessing PSN, well, sucks to be you. We’ll have to see what they specifically say when the system is being advertised. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sony-rumored-to-say-no-to-used-games-just-like-ms/618116/105 "2012-04-14T21:12:22Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#): > > You’re reading that wrong. The “internet service” was PSN, not Other OS. The judge ruled that Sony didn’t have to provide the ability to use Other OS _and also_ provide access to PSN. In the analogous situation, the consumer would have to choose between being able to play used games, _or_ being able to play online on the PSN. But we wouldn’t be able to do both. You’re looking at it wrong. The two situations aren’t very analogous, but Sony was able to dump Other OS because it didn’t interfere with the system’s main selling point: playing games. If players refused to download the firmware update removing Other OS, the judge surmised that they’d still be able to play any new game and use Other OS. So the player was making the choice to remove because it required an active Internet connection (and Sony made it clear what would happen when promoting the patch). Adding in a used game lockout after the fact would require an Internet connection (something not everyone has) and force everyone to make the switch. Because if you didn’t, new games would fail to run, causing Sony to run afoul of the one thing that saved them in the Other OS case. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sony-rumored-to-say-no-to-used-games-just-like-ms/618116/106 "2012-04-15T00:32:03Z")
The new games which require online access to play (and to lock out used games) will simply state that PSN access is required on the package. You’ll know this before you buy the game. It wouldn’t necessarily be all new games which will have this feature, but the most popular ones would. The lawyers will have plenty of time to figure out wording before the system is ever advertised, let alone available for sale. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sony-rumored-to-say-no-to-used-games-just-like-ms/618116/107 "2012-04-17T22:58:26Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Really? The few times I walk into GameStop, the used game is selling for a measly 5 bucks less than the new game. Online it looks like the used version of ME3 is $47.99 with the new version being $59.99. I guess 12 bucks is a bit better. Skyrim is going for $54.99 used and $59.99 new. A whole 5 bucks in saving. The price by itself is not significantly lower, but there are additional benefits for buying used vs new at GS. First, the return policy. Buy new, you can only return it if it is still shrinkwrapped or for another copy of the same game if it’s defective. Buy used, you can return it within a week (or maybe its 10 days) and get the entire purchase price back in store credit. Spend $60 on a new game and hate it, you’re screwed. Spend $55 on a used game and hate it, oh well, get something else. Yes, they will eventually cut people off that abuse this policy and treat the store like free rentals, but it’s still better than a blanket “tough shit, you opened the plasticwrap”. Secondly, they quite often run special promotions, such as buy two used games get one free. Maybe each individual used game is only a few dollars less than buying new, but then when you get another game (cheapest of the three of course) for nothing, it’s a MUCH better deal. I don’t always buy used games, but when I do, I use this sort of deal. ---
**Author:** ![gatorslap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gatorslap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gatorslap)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2012, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sony-rumored-to-say-no-to-used-games-just-like-ms/618116/108 "2012-04-19T02:27:27Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > You’re looking at it wrong. The two situations aren’t very analogous, but Sony was able to dump Other OS because it didn’t interfere with the system’s main selling point: playing games. If players refused to download the firmware update removing Other OS, the judge surmised that they’d still be able to play any new game and use Other OS. So the player was making the choice to remove because it required an active Internet connection (and Sony made it clear what would happen when promoting the patch). > > Adding in a used game lockout after the fact would require an Internet connection (something not everyone has) and force everyone to make the switch. Because if you didn’t, new games would fail to run, causing Sony to run afoul of the one thing that saved them in the Other OS case. Some games require you to update the system firmware already. They include the firmware on the disc when they do. People who did not update their PS3 and are still using Other OS are not able to play every game. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sony-rumored-to-say-no-to-used-games-just-like-ms/618116/109 "2012-05-02T02:49:47Z")
> [@Agent\_Foxtrot](#): > > Used video games and the retailers who sent them aren’t hurting the game producers. Why should the producers continue to get a cut when they’ve already made their money off the original sale of the game? When calculating a nation’s gross GDP, you only factor in new cars sold, not used cars, since money from the sale of used cars doesn’t go to the manufacturer, nor should it. Why would the video game industry be any different? Its no longer really about the games themselves, but that there is a ratio of game play that is one part stand alone game, and the other part being the online play. Usually that I have noticed for first person shooters, the stand alone game is most a tutorial on the weapons and maps in the online version. So the original stand alone game is not going to be much of a loss, having people jump onto the network for a tidy discount, probably sticks in their craw. > [@Agent\_Foxtrot](#): > > As a matter of fact, I think used video game retailers are _helping_ the industry… I’m one of those people that if I can’t get a game used, I’ll wait until the price goes down. Would they rather make $60 on a game someone bought then sold me, or $30 on a game I bought when the prices went down? Myself personally, I think MS and Sony have figured that their base is now big enough to take the hit and survive, especially when the next gen consoles are going to be more media platforms that can play games, than a gamer console. So out of ten gamers, 4 stay with the program and two come back to the fold eventually , and they lose 4, the investors might have a bit of a problem with that, but for those 6 that are joined by twelve more (read parents, who find out they can watch movies from netflix), it might not be the big loss that would be loudly decried Already thats what I am doing with my PS3, the only thing that needs to catch up is a revenue model for the carriers that works for them, and us. > [@Agent\_Foxtrot](#): > > So the PS4 and new Xbox won’t be backward compatible. I fail to see how this hurts gamers. I still have my PS2 and use it from time to time for nostalgia games. The new PS3 wasn’t backward compatible… I didn’t see gamers quitting in droves. They say it wont, but usually that has to do with not wanting to spend extra money on an emulated version. Backwards compatibility is not a deal breaker for me, but if you spend money on your current system, that media is as good today as it was back in the xbox days. If you can no longer sell it on the secondary market, it might put a downer on your next purchase of a console. > [@Agent\_Foxtrot](#): > > People are complaining that they can’t resell Steam games? Unless Steam sent you a CD disc in the mail, why should you be able to sell it? After you sell something, it means you don’t have it anymore. I don’t understand how someone can resell a game they downloaded… do you promise to delete it or something? I dont use steam, its the reason I got consoles in the first place. So I cant speak to their practices, but the secondary market sets the floating price point for games thats realisitic. If a game sucks, its going on the nine dollar rack, even though I had seen it on the rack in walmart for 60 bucks the year previous. Usually quite a few people will fund their latest game title from selling older games, and getting store credit, and pony up less benjamins than if they were to buy the game retail outright. If those people who are complaining, that they cant sell steam games, well, they would maybe buy retail but only at strategic times, so the gaming model for sales would most likely have to be revamped, if they dont start producing titles that appeal to other demographic interests, and leave the steam model to those that understand and prefer it. > [@Agent\_Foxtrot](#): > > Maybe I’m just getting old, but this thread makes no sense to me. Please enlighten me. And no, I’m not being facetious… I am genuinely confused. Hopefully I have enlighted you a bit. Declan ---
**Author:** ![Airk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de053/32.png) [@Airk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airk)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sony-rumored-to-say-no-to-used-games-just-like-ms/618116/110 "2012-05-02T14:31:36Z")
Actually, I’m way more confused than I was before you ressurected this thread. 😛 Do you really think there are 120% more people out there who are going to buy an expensive next-gen console because someone tells them they can play Netflix on it? Really? My big question is, really - what new media features do they really think they can add to the nextgen systems without brokering a jillion deals with TV networks? ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sony-rumored-to-say-no-to-used-games-just-like-ms/618116/111 "2012-05-02T14:43:42Z")
> [@Airk](#): > > Do you really think there are 120% more people out there who are going to buy an expensive next-gen console because someone tells them they can play Netflix on it? Really? It’s doubly ridiculous since a) current generation consoles (even the Wii) play Netflix streaming content just fine and b) the last thing the consolemakers want is a bunch of people who buy the console and then never buy any games. > [@Airk](#): > > My big question is, really - what new media features do they really think they can add to the nextgen systems without brokering a jillion deals with TV networks? Microsoft (and Sony to a lesser extent) is actually already doing this with the Xbox 360. ---
**Author:** ![Airk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de053/32.png) [@Airk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airk)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sony-rumored-to-say-no-to-used-games-just-like-ms/618116/112 "2012-05-02T17:42:43Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > It’s doubly ridiculous since a) current generation consoles (even the Wii) play Netflix streaming content just fine and b) the last thing the consolemakers want is a bunch of people who buy the console and then never buy any games. Yes, that was part of my underlying point. If we can’t persuade these people to buy an Xbox 360 with ITS media features for $200, what on earth makes anyone think that there are magical features they can add to a next gen console that will make people want to pay $400 or whatever for one? > [@](#): > > Microsoft (and Sony to a lesser extent) is actually already doing this with the Xbox 360. I think it would be more accurate to say that they are TRYING to do this. All they’ve managed to do so far, really, is to make a couple of TV channels digital offerings available - ESPN3 and HBO Go or whatever it’s called - are basically “the stuff ESPN and HBO put online for people” rather than either channel’s actual content. If you ask me, the smart thing for Sony/MS to do right now would be to work with, say, Twitch TV and the like and get content streaming directly to the consoles. Is there some ridiculous reason that Evo 2011 got millions of viewers, playing games that are only available on consoles, but anyone who wanted to watch it had to do so on a PC? Foolishness. ---
**Author:** ![Airk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de053/32.png) [@Airk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airk)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2012, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sony-rumored-to-say-no-to-used-games-just-like-ms/618116/113 "2012-05-02T17:54:05Z")
Of course, now that I’ve gone and said that about the $200 Xbox: > **[Video Game News & Reviews | Engadget](https://www.engadget.com/gaming/)** > > Find in-depth news and hands-on reviews of the latest video games, video consoles and accessories. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2012, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sony-rumored-to-say-no-to-used-games-just-like-ms/618116/114 "2012-05-03T20:37:37Z")
> [@Trepa\_Mayfield](#): > > That’s the nice thing about Steam: you can buy a brand-new game for $60 bucks, or buy a 8-year old game for $10, just like at the local Gamestop–except new or old, your product is invulnerable to disk failure or loss. And Steam doesn’t run out of product when its 3 copies of whatever get sold. Since I don’t get around to playing games until years after I buy them anyway (I bought Twilight Princess when it was new, and will get to it eventually), I’d rather be able to buy it once, cheaply, than shell out twice that for a possibly working disk I can sell for–what, a quarter of what I paid for it? A fifth? I too an a Steamoholic. Steam is a wonderful wonderful thing… I will slink out now before I get beaten to a pulp. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sony-rumored-to-say-no-to-used-games-just-like-ms/618116.md?page=5)