# Sooo..I visit the chamber of my DiL and she likes it... **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 20, 2013, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sooo-i-visit-the-chamber-of-my-dil-and-she-likes-it/653432 "2013-03-20T06:02:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sooo-i-visit-the-chamber-of-my-dil-and-she-likes-it/653432/81 "2013-05-30T19:35:13Z")
Three players seems like enough to get the ball rolling! Let’s discuss starting points. Do we play strict vanilla to avoid any potential compatibility issues if someone wants to join down the road? Where shall we start? I think it would be most fun to start small and try to claw our way up to kingship, and also because I’m not very good at the game yet and don’t want to have to juggle too much too soon. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sooo-i-visit-the-chamber-of-my-dil-and-she-likes-it/653432/82 "2013-05-30T20:37:34Z")
Sure, a pure vanilla game with absolutely no DLC enabled starting in 1066 seems like a good setup. I’ll throw out some suggestions for a starting location: 1. Count of Aargau - a little guy by the name of von Hapsburg, a direct vassal of the Emperor. Play your cards right, he might grant you a duchy. The start might be very slow going, though, as you’re extremely limited in what you can do as a count. 2. Duke of Bohemia - has an easy upgrade path to King of Bohemia, without needing to do any of that pesky conquering; just accumulate enough piety and prestige and BAM! instant kingdom. Even while king, you’re still under the aegis of the HRE. Or if you’re bold, you can declare independence. 3. King of Aragon - you’re an independent one-province realm, so you don’t have to answer to anyone. There minor Moorish counties to the south for quick expansion as well as other de jure claims and you can plot against your brother kings. Just don’t use the Holy War casus belli too much or you’ll bring the wrath of all the Moors down on your head. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sooo-i-visit-the-chamber-of-my-dil-and-she-likes-it/653432/83 "2013-05-30T22:21:12Z")
My previous post about Gavelkind succession was wrong, so here’s a corrected version. I’ll ask mods if they can delete the previous one. The difference is that daughters of sons inherit before sons of daughters. I bolded the changes. It’s little details like that that are annoying in the succession rules. You expect a result, plan accordingly, and the system doesn’t work the way you expected, to your dismay. They really should publish detailled infos about the exact rules followed when the game search for a next in line. Especially since you can’t ever guess. In this case, for instance, some of her nieces and her own son will inherit before your daughter. In case of Agnatic-Cognatic succession, it goes this way : 1)1st son 2)1st son’s sons **then his daughters** 3)2nd son then his sons **and daughters** , third son then his sons **and daughters** , etc… Lacking sons, it thus continue : 4)1st daughter’s sons 5)2nd daughter’s sons, third daughter’s sons, etc… Lacking any male direct descendant, it passes to females : 6)First daughter then her daughters 7)Second daughter then her daughters, third daughter then her daughters, etc… Lacking direct descendant it goes to brothers : 8)Eldest brother then his sons After that, I don’t know. For instance, I don’t know if the daughter of the eldest brother inherit before or after the second brother, or the son of the first sister, etc… Note : with the gavelkind and the agnatic system, not only women can’t inherit, but they can’t pass the inheritance, either. So, the sons of your daughters aren’t in line and lacking a son of your own, your title will go to your brother. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sooo-i-visit-the-chamber-of-my-dil-and-she-likes-it/653432/84 "2013-05-30T22:37:38Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Three players seems like enough to get the ball rolling! Let’s discuss starting points. > . Ok, I’m game. I’ll take the fourth ruler of the dynasty. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2013, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sooo-i-visit-the-chamber-of-my-dil-and-she-likes-it/653432/85 "2013-05-31T12:01:23Z")
**Terminus,** since you’re clearly the most experienced among us, why don’t you go ahead and start a game? I’ll take the second play, which will give appleciders some time to learn things before I hand it off. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2013, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sooo-i-visit-the-chamber-of-my-dil-and-she-likes-it/653432/86 "2013-05-31T12:54:55Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > **Terminus,** since you’re clearly the most experienced among us, why don’t you go ahead and start a game? I’ll take the second play, which will give appleciders some time to learn things before I hand it off. Sure thing. Any suggestions as to where to start? I’ve tried all three of the locations I’ve listed. I was most successful as Aragon, where I finished the game as Emperor of Hispania. I never really got anywhere as Aargau. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2013, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sooo-i-visit-the-chamber-of-my-dil-and-she-likes-it/653432/87 "2013-05-31T13:03:06Z")
Aragon seems fun - I’ve fiddled around in Spain a bit and generally end up getting attacked by one of my brothers. That also has the advantage of being some distance away from all the newly uppity vikings. Another possibility is the Earl of Dublin. He gets his poppa’s land when the old man kicks off shortly after the beginning of the game, and you’ve got a lot of independent neighbors to choose from for creating claims. ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2013, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sooo-i-visit-the-chamber-of-my-dil-and-she-likes-it/653432/88 "2013-05-31T13:25:16Z")
Vikings are less of a problem in 1066, which is when we’ll be starting in a vanilla game. While Aragon is interesting, I’m hesitant to subject new players to the unpredictable Muslim jihad. One advantage of playing there, though, is that House Jimena has a lot of branches. Even if you somehow don’t manage to produce an heir, the next player will probably start as a brother or cousin. I’m actually a bit partial to Bohemia; I’ve made several stabs at it but have never really followed through. I’ll poke around some more in the HRE to see if there any other interesting spots. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2013, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sooo-i-visit-the-chamber-of-my-dil-and-she-likes-it/653432/89 "2013-05-31T13:27:49Z")
I’ve been scared to start too close to the HRE, but I guess being a vassal of them makes stuff pretty safe. I’ll defer to your judgement here, I’ve probably had 30 or 40 “starts” but only with three characters so far (The Earl of Dublin, Sigfus the Count of Vestisland, and I think the King of Leon). ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2013, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sooo-i-visit-the-chamber-of-my-dil-and-she-likes-it/653432/90 "2013-05-31T14:45:46Z")
Yes, being next to the HRE is pretty scary. Being _inside_ the HRE feels like the safest thing in the world. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2013, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sooo-i-visit-the-chamber-of-my-dil-and-she-likes-it/653432/91 "2013-05-31T15:26:28Z")
In the vein of the original post, I would like to report that I believe I have managed to marry my own bastard daughter. My ruler’s (unmarried) lover had a child of “unknown parentage” without the option to legitimize. 18 or so years down the line, my duke (now in his late 60’s) buries duchess #3 and I figure after those cold political marriages he deserves a love match for a change. Turns out his lover somehow got married and so is off the market, but look at her lovely daughter! Something about that portly build, black hair and blue eyes reminds him of himself, so why not? 😃 Unfortunately he died before they could have any kids to see if they got the inbred trait. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2013, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sooo-i-visit-the-chamber-of-my-dil-and-she-likes-it/653432/92 "2013-05-31T18:11:52Z")
> [@Terminus\_Est](#): > > Sure, a pure vanilla game with absolutely no DLC enabled starting in 1066 seems like a good setup. > > I’ll throw out some suggestions for a starting location: > > 1. Count of Aargau - a little guy by the name of von Hapsburg, a direct vassal of the Emperor. Play your cards right, he might grant you a duchy. The start might be very slow going, though, as you’re extremely limited in what you can do as a count. > > 2. Duke of Bohemia - has an easy upgrade path to King of Bohemia, without needing to do any of that pesky conquering; just accumulate enough piety and prestige and BAM! instant kingdom. Even while king, you’re still under the aegis of the HRE. Or if you’re bold, you can declare independence. > > 3. King of Aragon - you’re an independent one-province realm, so you don’t have to answer to anyone. There minor Moorish counties to the south for quick expansion as well as other de jure claims and you can plot against your brother kings. Just don’t use the Holy War casus belli too much or you’ll bring the wrath of all the Moors down on your head. How do you turn DLC off? ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2013, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sooo-i-visit-the-chamber-of-my-dil-and-she-likes-it/653432/93 "2013-05-31T18:13:15Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > In the vein of the original post, I would like to report that I believe I have managed to marry my own bastard daughter. My ruler’s (unmarried) lover had a child of “unknown parentage” without the option to legitimize. 18 or so years down the line, my duke (now in his late 60’s) buries duchess #3 and I figure after those cold political marriages he deserves a love match for a change. Turns out his lover somehow got married and so is off the market, but look at her lovely daughter! Something about that portly build, black hair and blue eyes reminds him of himself, so why not? 😃 > > Unfortunately he died before they could have any kids to see if they got the inbred trait. I think I’m the father and grandfather of my direct heir. Geez. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2013, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sooo-i-visit-the-chamber-of-my-dil-and-she-likes-it/653432/94 "2013-05-31T18:26:43Z")
> [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](#): > > How do you turn DLC off? When I launch from steam I get a launcher box that lets me check individual DLC components and on off. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2013, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sooo-i-visit-the-chamber-of-my-dil-and-she-likes-it/653432/95 "2013-06-01T02:54:57Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > When I launch from steam I get a launcher box that lets me check individual DLC components and on off. Ah yes. Derp. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2013, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sooo-i-visit-the-chamber-of-my-dil-and-she-likes-it/653432/96 "2013-06-02T02:49:27Z")
Co-operative succession game thread [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=16343315#post16343315). ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2013, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sooo-i-visit-the-chamber-of-my-dil-and-she-likes-it/653432/97 "2013-06-02T06:22:45Z")
Are any available mods for CK2 particularly must-have? ---
**Author:** ![liirogue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dbc845/32.png) [@liirogue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/liirogue)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2013, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sooo-i-visit-the-chamber-of-my-dil-and-she-likes-it/653432/98 "2013-06-02T21:36:39Z")
I’d never heard of Crusader Kings before, but after reading this thread I’ve decided I would enjoy playing this. Any word on when it will go on sale again? I’d rather not pay $130 for the pack… ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2013, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sooo-i-visit-the-chamber-of-my-dil-and-she-likes-it/653432/99 "2013-06-02T22:13:34Z")
I wonder if we should ask the mods to add a thing on the thread title indicating what game this is about. I will second the question about mods, btw. Er, game mods. Not SDMB mods. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2013, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sooo-i-visit-the-chamber-of-my-dil-and-she-likes-it/653432/100 "2013-06-02T22:19:04Z")
> [@liirogue](#): > > I’d never heard of Crusader Kings before, but after reading this thread I’ve decided I would enjoy playing this. Any word on when it will go on sale again? I’d rather not pay $130 for the pack… The summer sale should be coming up this month. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sooo-i-visit-the-chamber-of-my-dil-and-she-likes-it/653432.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sooo-i-visit-the-chamber-of-my-dil-and-she-likes-it/653432.md?page=6)