# SOPA is DEAD!! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 20, 2012, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopa-is-dead/610168 "2012-01-20T20:04:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopa-is-dead/610168/21 "2012-01-21T00:42:11Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > I wouldn’t start dancing on it’s grave yet. Really bad legislation backed by rich, powerful interests has a way of reappearing again and again, like a horror movie villain. They’ll try attaching provisions from this to every spending bill for the next decade. I’m ashamed of the support this thing got from folks who should have known better, like Patrick Leahy - who I presume was offered a really well-paid job as an industry lobbyist. > > SOPA and PIPA are a worse version of the DMCA, memorably described by Frank Zappa as “the equivilant of treating dandruff by decapitation.” We’ll see, but I’m not as pessimistic as you are. The dynamics of this are interesting. First of all, the anti-SOPA forces are pretty powerful, too. Google, as has been mentioned, for example, and lots of other big players in the Internet industry. Second, if you have been following the news, it’s not just that the pro-SOPA senators were outnumbered. It’s that many of them actually changed their mind. Which is a hard thing to get a senator to do. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopa-is-dead/610168/22 "2012-01-21T01:36:29Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > It’s that many of them actually changed their mind. Which is a hard thing to get a senator to do. I would guess it’s less “changed their minds” and more “got someone to explain what the bill that they never read but supported anyway because it’s got a catchy name actually says and means”. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopa-is-dead/610168/23 "2012-01-21T04:36:19Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > I see, so you’re not familiar with the use of metaphor? I am, but as I explained earlier with my metaphor about someone with no sense of perspective comparing a pat on the back to rape, calling copyright violation “piracy” is so excessive that it is truly offensive. Copyright owners losing out on a sale is _nothing_ like Somali pirates murdering men, women and children on a ship. There are reasonable metaphors, and excessively strained ones. > [@](#): > > And I bet I could find instances of people dying from copyright violation – authors who had their work stolen and couldn’t afford food or medical care. Here’s the amusing thing…I know people who have starved by having their copyrights stolen. But they have been ripped off _by_ the record and movie companies. Finding someone who has been cheated by a record company is easy. Hearing a giant record label talk about “piracy” is like being lectured on the evils of it by Bluebeard. > [@](#): > > People who say that taking intellectual property isn’t theft are being self-serving – they’re generally just trying to salve their consciences while trying to save themselves $15.00 for a CD or $49.95 for a video game. Bullshit. “Theft” has a specific meaning. If I steal something from you, you no longer have it. If I violate your copyright, you still have it. This is a binary distinction, and if you won’t admit it, we cannot discuss the matter sensibly. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopa-is-dead/610168/24 "2012-01-21T08:42:59Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I hope you’re right. I’m afraid I am. 🙂 I hope I’m right, too. Because if you’re right… well… _fuck_. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopa-is-dead/610168/25 "2012-01-21T08:43:24Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > Bullshit. “Theft” has a specific meaning. If I steal something from you, you no longer have it. If I violate your copyright, you still have it. This is a binary distinction, and if you won’t admit it, we cannot discuss the matter sensibly. Okay, let’s take your example from an earlier post and use “rape” as a metaphor for copyright violation. Copyright violation, like rape, isn’t taking anything from somebody. They’re both just the use of something that doesn’t belong to you against the owner’s wishes. But after you’re done, the owner still has everything they started with. So by your logic, no crime was committed. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopa-is-dead/610168/26 "2012-01-21T09:15:55Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Okay, let’s take your example from an earlier post and use “rape” as a metaphor for copyright violation. Copyright violation, like rape, isn’t taking anything from somebody. They’re both just the use of something that doesn’t belong to you against the owner’s wishes. But after you’re done, the owner still has everything they started with. So by your logic, no crime was committed. What an astonishingly tortured bit of logic on your part. A copyright violation can, and usually does, occur without the knowledge of the “victim”. Find another “crime” where these things are true: The victim can be completely unaware that the crime has been committed, and is unlikely to find out that it happened at any point in the future. The victim is not deprived of the ownership or use of the item. They have promoted the concept of “intellectual property” to get around these difficult facts, and have promoted the idea that IP can be stolen. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopa-is-dead/610168/27 "2012-01-21T09:29:30Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > The victim can be completely unaware that the crime has been committed, and is unlikely to find out that it happened at any point in the future. > > The victim is not deprived of the ownership or use of the item. So rape’s okay, if the victim is passed out? Obviously, I don’t really equate rape with copyright violation. But the reasoning you’re using to try to establish copyright violation is not theft is just as convoluted as the reasoning I’ve used. Is there an argument to be made that copyright violation is different than theft? Yes. Is it as absolute and clear-cut as you’re claiming? No. People can claim that copyright violation is theft and make as good an argument as yours. If you’re refusing to admit this is possible, you’re just demonstrating you can’t take an objective look at the issue. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 9:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopa-is-dead/610168/28 "2012-01-21T09:55:02Z")
**gaffa** , **nemo** , both of you need to stop the pedantry. Talk about SOPA and PIPA. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopa-is-dead/610168/29 "2012-01-21T13:26:05Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > That’s what I expect - it’s been postponed, not killed, and they’ll sneak it back in when no one’s watching, like the incredibly stupid anti-online gambling legislation that got enacted a few years ago. IIRC, when they had the Weapon’s Ban bill debate in the early 90s, I went to bed on a Friday night hearing that the Ban was dead. On Sunday morning, we had a Weapons Ban. (Whatever it was called… the one where all of the ‘assault rifle’ arguments were being used) hh ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopa-is-dead/610168/30 "2012-01-21T13:47:26Z")
I won’t trust that this danger is over until I see it has been voted down and repudiated as the bag of bird droppings that it is. Until then, I will be vigilant. As an aside, do you think Jimmy Wales made a difference here? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopa-is-dead/610168/31 "2012-01-21T19:10:53Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > So rape’s okay, if the victim is passed out? > > Obviously, I don’t really equate rape with copyright violation. But the reasoning you’re using to try to establish copyright violation is not theft is just as convoluted as the reasoning I’ve used. > > Is there an argument to be made that copyright violation is different than theft? Yes. Is it as absolute and clear-cut as you’re claiming? No. People can claim that copyright violation is theft and make as good an argument as yours. If you’re refusing to admit this is possible, you’re just demonstrating you can’t take an objective look at the issue. No, it isn’t, because theft is NOT used as a metaphor. If so, then you’d often hear it also used as a simile. It’s quite clear that the term is being used as a classification. And pointing out where a classification fails does indicate that the subject does not fall under that classification. If piracy is theft, then, other than possibly a dire need, there is no argument that any of it acceptable. And i don’t accept that. I don’t see how playing an abandonware game is wrong. I don’t see how choosing to watch something on the Internet that I could have recorded from my TV is wrong. And I definitely don’t see why backing up my DVD on my computer is wrong, nor making it where I don’t have to use the CD to play a game I purchased, or hacking my own hardware. Yet all of these fall under copyright violations. And as for your rape analogy: copyright violations would be better modeled as being able to make a copy of the person in question and then having sex with the copy, and then arguing that the original has no right to be upset. The copying part is what makes things so incredibly different from anything we’ve dealt with before. And I say this as someone who, other than what I said above, refuses to pirate. As for PIPA/SOPA: the Internet is never not going to be watching for threats against its continued existence. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopa-is-dead/610168/32 "2012-01-21T19:44:42Z")
Back to my original point, this isn’t about theft and piracy - the legislators are pretending it is, but it’s about control - the legislators and businesses don’t have it, and they want it. They don’t like us common folk able to just chat with each other in different countries, and share ideas about what’s good and what’s bad about our different existences. Informed sheep aren’t docile sheep. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopa-is-dead/610168/33 "2012-01-22T00:33:00Z")
Just now on CNN’s coverage of South Carolina, there was an advert urging people to support SOPA and PIPA. Given how expensive that particular advert spot would likely be, _somebody_ doesn’t think SOPA is dead. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopa-is-dead/610168/34 "2012-01-22T02:11:42Z")
> [@Agent\_Foxtrot](#): > > [Sopa and Pipa bills postponed in US Congress - BBC News](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-16655272) > > Big win for the common people. The “common people” aren’t so “common” now. Here’s a good headline: SOPA DOA ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopa-is-dead/610168/35 "2012-01-22T02:26:14Z")
Watch and wait, y’all. Be vigilant. Really. This is important. When the dang PATRIOT thing came poking its nose into every nook and cranny, people were so freaked by the disaster not to say “HEY, WAIT A MINUTE!”. Watch out for what happens next. Mr Obama will almost certainly be the next POTUS, but that doesn’t mean everything is going to be ‘peaches and cream’ for personal liberties here in the USA (and in other Internet connected countries). We are all connected in such ways that a single decision by some elected guy from a single state of the USA could actually cause millions of folks ALL OVER THE WORLD notice and actually in a level above ‘meh’ care about it. That, my fellow Dopers, is power. Do not forget, this guy still is a senator. And who was Emperor Palpatine before he was Emperor? OK, ok ok… maybe that was over the top. But y’all get the idea. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopa-is-dead/610168.md?page=1)