# Sopranos 4/11/04 **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 12, 2004, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopranos-4-11-04/239566 "2004-04-12T05:25:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2004, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopranos-4-11-04/239566/1 "2004-04-12T05:25:08Z")
Okay, I don’t get it. Why did… (adding this because you can see “through” spoiler boxes in the mouseover preview) (think that’s enough?) (maybe one more…) (to be on the safe side) (okay) Why did Tony B. go off on the Korean? Just wanted to get out of the partnership? ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2004, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopranos-4-11-04/239566/2 "2004-04-12T05:26:13Z")
(Boy, good thing I did add that much buffer!) ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2004, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopranos-4-11-04/239566/3 "2004-04-12T05:36:46Z")
This is what happened to Tony B… He found 12,000 dollars. It was the worst find of his life. What it did was remind him that ‘found money’ is sweet. He bought goombah suits, custom Italian shoes, bought drinks, bought gifts for his wife, etc. Then it was all gone, and he found himself painting walls late at night while his rich partner walked in and took half the credit. That sent him over the edge. One of the things that keeps people in the gangster life is the lifestyle. As Fast Eddie Felson once said, “Money won is twice as sweet as money earned.” Prison caused Tony B. to forget what that was like. The $12,000 brought it all back. And suddenly, painting walls just didn’t cut it any more. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2004, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopranos-4-11-04/239566/4 "2004-04-12T05:48:16Z")
The best I can figure is that he was extremely stressed and suddenly realized that he was the one doing all the work on the place. Right or wrong, he felt that the Korean was taking advantage of him. I think the speculation last week of Tony B’s orientation has been put to rest. (How DOES an ex-con who looks like Steve Buschemi get a girl who looks like that? I know, I know, the Internet.) Interesting to see that Tony B didn’t stay “civilian” for long. He got a taste of the high life and wants in. Did Tony ask Carmela, “Since when do you eat duck?” I think that’s what he asked, and if so, I think it’s very important. I may be alone on this, but does anyone else wonder if Carmela really did use the counselor, albeit subconsciously? ---
**Author:** ![Kid\_A\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Kid\_A\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kid_A_1)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2004, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopranos-4-11-04/239566/5 "2004-04-12T05:50:16Z")
I waited 5 episodes for some Tony B. character development and tonight it finally happened. I don’t think I’ve ever been so happy to watch a beating before. Also, that little smirk Tony S. had on his face was excellent. “You thought you could avoid it but you’ll always be one of us.” “Remember Pearl Harbor”. Paulie’s always got that one one-liner that cracks me up. Koreans? Japanese? It doesn’t matter. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2004, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopranos-4-11-04/239566/6 "2004-04-12T05:52:09Z")
Sure she used him. It’s part of her nature, and the nature of the culture she came out of. That doesn’t mean she slept with him to get him to help Anthony. I don’t think she did. It’s just that once she was close to him, it was just obvious to her to ask him for help. That’s what ‘family’ does. You can take the Soprano out of Carmela, but… (-: ---
**Author:** ![Darkhold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@Darkhold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darkhold)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2004, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopranos-4-11-04/239566/7 "2004-04-12T05:59:31Z")
Is it wrong to want a teen to be wacked? That AJ kid…sheesh. ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2004, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopranos-4-11-04/239566/8 "2004-04-12T06:17:49Z")
> [@BlackKnight](#): > > Did Tony ask Carmela, “Since when do you eat duck?” I think that’s what he asked, and if so, I think it’s very important. Yeah. That’s what he asked. Presumably it was a doggie-bag from one of the restaurants that she went to with ol’ sore armed Eddie Cicotte (my favorite David Strathairn role). Carmela put on a hell of a poker face there. Paulie’s “Remember Pearl Harbor” had me on the floor for about five minutes. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2004, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopranos-4-11-04/239566/9 "2004-04-12T06:59:06Z")
> [@Sam Stone](#): > > Then it was all gone, and he found himself painting walls late at night while his rich partner walked in and took half the credit. That sent him over the edge. > > One of the things that keeps people in the gangster life is the lifestyle. As Fast Eddie Felson once said, “Money won is twice as sweet as money earned.” Prison caused Tony B. to forget what that was like. The $12,000 brought it all back. And suddenly, painting walls just didn’t cut it any more. Okay; makes sense. Don’t remember if I posted it here, but I figured Straithairn’s character would be like that: naive enough to think that what he’d heard about the Soprano family was “just gossip” and that he “shouldn’t judge”. I doubt he realizes even now what Tony could/might do to him if he finds out exactly why Carmella’s been eating duck. As far as A.J., I wish Carmella had followed through and insisted that he stick with his decision to live with Tony. Mom’s boring and restrictive; I wanna live with Dad. Wah, Dad was mean to me; I wanna go back to Mommy. Grow a pair, kid. But Mr. Rilch says that Tony doesn’t want to take responsibility for the punk, and I tend to agree. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2004, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopranos-4-11-04/239566/10 "2004-04-12T11:37:23Z")
> [@](#): > > Sure she used him. It’s part of her nature, and the nature of the culture she came out of. She even admitted it, sort of. She said something to the effect of “That’s what people do when they’re together-- help each other.” She was looking for him to help AJ. She did “use her pussy” to get what she wanted. But in her world, that’s pretty much the only power she ever had. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2004, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopranos-4-11-04/239566/11 "2004-04-12T12:22:01Z")
\<\< “Remember Pearl Harbor”. Paulie’s always got that one one-liner that cracks me up. Koreans? Japanese? It doesn’t matter. \>\> Thanks! I have to admit, I didn’t understand that line. I was swoooshed, thanks for explaining. Carmella’s actions are interesting. It’s clearly subconscious, at least, that she’s using him – every lovemaking scene, she worries about AJ. And it’s clear why he THINKS she’s using him. But I think she’s too naive to be conscious about it. Also, she has a very unrealistic appraisal of AJ anyhow, so my reading was that she thinks that the dean (does he have a name?) would encourage the teacher to “coach” AJ, would discourage the teacher from being so anti-Italian and so unfairly hard on AJ. It was a wonderful moment for me, because I’d been assuming that he was using her – wondering how many other divorced mothers of poor students he bedded. The “since when did you eat duck” has wonderful implications in many directions, since ducks were instrumental in Tony going to the shrink in season 1, you’ll recall. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2004, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopranos-4-11-04/239566/12 "2004-04-12T12:26:14Z")
P.S. - I really like **Sam Stone** ’s explanation of Tony B’s change of behavior… and Tony S’s smirk makes me now wonder about Tony B’s miraculous luck in having a bag of money dropped at his feet. Could Tony S have deliberately manipulated that? ---
**Author:** ![Ashkicker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@Ashkicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashkicker)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2004, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopranos-4-11-04/239566/13 "2004-04-12T12:37:52Z")
Last nights show was a hoot. Paulie is always coming up with good one liners. Didn’t he say something like “Ever wonder why pussy, fucking and shitting all happen in a 2 inch radius”? And then one of them I think Christopher says “That’s a question people been asking for years”. Funny I don’t ever remember seeing that question proposed in GQ. 😃 I thought the sex did Carmela some good. She had that I’m so in love look. It was good to see her happy again. And after all the times Tony screwed around on her she deserved it. As far as Tony B. goes, I thought he was going to be the one with some sense. That didn’t happen. He got that money hungry desire and it got the best of him. Geesh, why can’t someone throw a bag of money out in front of me. I did miss the begining where Anthony Jr. pops off to father dearest. What did he say to him that got him so riled? I think he can forget about college. I just don’t think that is going to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2004, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopranos-4-11-04/239566/14 "2004-04-12T12:47:39Z")
Yeah, Sam Stone was right on about Tony B. They can be a little annoying though. There’s no signs all episode of him being distressed about going straight and then he just decks the guy. I don’t need my hand held when I’m watching a TV show (I can put the pieces together too) but there just didn’t seem to be any motivation for it. Anyway, mostly a dull episode especially after last week’s classic. ---
**Author:** ![jmizzou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/edb3f5/32.png) [@jmizzou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jmizzou)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2004, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopranos-4-11-04/239566/15 "2004-04-12T13:28:28Z")
Not quite as exciting as last week’s episode, but still good. I was surprised to see how supportive most people were of Tony B.'s decision to stay out (especially Christopher). > [@C K Dexter Haven](#): > > P.S. - I really like **Sam Stone** ’s explanation of Tony B’s change of behavior… and Tony S’s smirk makes me now wonder about Tony B’s miraculous luck in having a bag of money dropped at his feet. Could Tony S have deliberately manipulated that? That’s a very good idea, and it seems like something that a mob boss would cook up. The more I think about it, the more I like it. There were no police cars around, and I didn’t hear any sirens, either. The money will either suck him back in to the Family with promises of “the good life,” or get him in trouble with a passing policeman. Even without the drugs, a parolee with Mob ties holding a bag full of money isn’t going to look good. Either way, Tony B. is no longer a possible problem, or a threat to Tony S.'s authority. ---
**Author:** ![yellowval](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/919ad9/32.png) [@yellowval](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowval)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2004, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopranos-4-11-04/239566/16 "2004-04-12T13:32:51Z")
I thought the interaction between Tony B. and Christopher was interesting, after what happened last week. Suddenly Christopher was being really supportive of Tony B.'s massage parlor dreams, while the other guys still made fun of him. I guess it was the least he could do after Tony B. saved his ass last week. I also loved it when Carmela and Jackie’s mother were in the kitchen when A.J. got home from school. After the little jerk left, Jackie’s mother got all choked up about “her Jackie” and Carmela comforted her. Does Carmela know that Tony killed Jackie Jr.? Great stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2004, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopranos-4-11-04/239566/17 "2004-04-12T21:49:16Z")
My memory is a little fuzzy… Did Tony kill Jackie Junior? Or was it another mob boss? I thought Jackie was in trouble with several people at that time. ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2004, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopranos-4-11-04/239566/18 "2004-04-12T22:15:22Z")
Jackie, Jr. was shot by Vito Spatafore, the fat captain who Chris threw the sub at last week. At the time of Jackie’s death, he was a member of Ralphie’s crew (which he now runs). It was Ralph who officially ordered the hit, but Tony let it be known that there was no saving the kid. Presumably, such an act of loyalty to Tony played into his promotion after Ralphie was disappeared. ---
**Author:** ![AuntiePam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@AuntiePam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AuntiePam)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2004, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopranos-4-11-04/239566/19 "2004-04-12T22:46:48Z")
Many thanks to **Sam Stone** for explaining (rationalizing) Tony B.'s meltdown. Hubby and I couldn’t figure out what set him off. Has he broken parole by beating up his boss? He’ll be out of a (legitimate) job, so that’s a parole violation too, isn’t it? Are the parole officers just too busy to go find him? Poor Carm. Even if it is a cultural thing to give and accept favors, she should have known to keep A.J.'s problems out of the relationship. It’s been awhile since she’s dated though. I hope she figures it out. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2004, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopranos-4-11-04/239566/20 "2004-04-12T22:47:29Z")
About “I didn’t know you ate duck”: Tony’s anxiety over the ducks, according to Melfi, came from associating his desire to hold the family together with them. Stressing over the ducks leaving the pool was a sort of sublimation (is that right?) of his worries about the kids (especially A.J.) making their own way in the world. So Tony observing that Carmella _eats_ duck might be veiled blame-laying for the dissolution of the family. Isn’t this fun? 😃 > [@jmizzou](#): > > **(Re: the $12,000 bag)** > There were no police cars around, and I didn’t hear any sirens, either. There were definitely sirens before and after the bag was tossed. I think it really _was_ just paranoid dealers. Especially since the bag contained “crack, or maybe crank.” If the dealers were tweaking, the sound of approaching sirens could easily seem like hot pursuit. I’m intrigued by the whole\* Abelard and Heloise\* thing. We know that the guy is quick to use literature as a seduction tool, and pushed _Madame Bovary_ on Carmella to try to advance their relationship. So, can we make any inferences based on his keeping a book chronicling the relationship between a teacher and his underage student in his _en suite_ bathroom? One with significant passages highlighted? The _en suite_ is _the_ most private room in the house. When Carmella asked about it, at first he tried to dismiss it, saying “I just like to read in there.” Does he have a secret relationship with a student? “You better watch your step” indeed. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopranos-4-11-04/239566.md?page=2)