# Sopranos: 4/2 (Open Spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 3, 2006, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopranos-4-2-open-spoilers/351010 "2006-04-03T02:13:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopranos-4-2-open-spoilers/351010/21 "2006-04-03T03:57:51Z")
> [@](#): > > How realistic was that scene with insurance lady nosing through Tony’s medical records and making presumptuous comments about what he had been eating, etc? Do insurance companies really send people to do stuff like that? How do they not get their asses kicked on a regular basis? In my experience, UR people rarely talk to the patients; they just review the charts. The only time I’ve had a UR person deny a stay on a patient of mine, I thought they were totally right to do so. (Long story.) Then again, I usually get my patients out before the UR people even raise an eyebrow, so maybe my experience isn’t typical. ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopranos-4-2-open-spoilers/351010/22 "2006-04-03T04:06:36Z")
I think it’s fairly significant that Carmela is getting involved. She’s moved from implicitly accepting the benefits of crime to explicitly aiding Tony. ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopranos-4-2-open-spoilers/351010/23 "2006-04-03T04:09:54Z")
The woman that was with Hesh. What did she say and, more importantly , WTF did it mean. I must have rewound it five times before I gave up on deciphering it. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopranos-4-2-open-spoilers/351010/24 "2006-04-03T04:12:13Z")
I think she was saying that Evangelicals have been good friends of Jews because of their belief that God promised Israel to the Jews. When Hesh said, “You wait,” I wasn’t sure what that meant, and the segue was awkward after it as well. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopranos-4-2-open-spoilers/351010/25 "2006-04-03T04:15:28Z")
> [@Lochdale](#): > > I think it’s fairly significant that Carmela is getting involved. She’s moved from implicitly accepting the benefits of crime to explicitly aiding Tony. In for a penny, in for a pound, I suppose. Her suspicions are certainly on-target. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopranos-4-2-open-spoilers/351010/26 "2006-04-03T04:20:52Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > I think she was saying that Evangelicals have been good friends of Jews because of their belief that God promised Israel to the Jews. When Hesh said, “You wait,” I wasn’t sure what that meant, and the segue was awkward after it as well. My understanding is that the Christian Fundamentalists support the state of Israel because their end times theology requires the state of Israel to exist so it can be destroyed during Armageddon. So they’re not really hoping for the best there. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopranos-4-2-open-spoilers/351010/27 "2006-04-03T04:25:51Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > I think she was saying that Evangelicals have been good friends of Jews because of their belief that God promised Israel to the Jews. When Hesh said, “You wait,” I wasn’t sure what that meant, and the segue was awkward after it as well. I think he was implying that the Evangelical “friendship” with Israel is completely self-serving and duplicitous. A lot of Fundamentalists believe that Israel (and the Temple) has to be restored before Jesus can return…at which point they expect the Jews to either convert _en masse_ or go to Hell. They support Israel because of their own religious agenda but they don’t really respect Judaism as a religion or accept Jews as spiritual peers. I think Hesh is also probably old enough to remember the Holocaust and may be innately wary of trusting the Goyim. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopranos-4-2-open-spoilers/351010/28 "2006-04-03T04:27:24Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I think he was implying that the Evangelical “friendship” with Israel is completely self-serving and duplicitous. A lot of Fundamentalists believe that Israel (and the Temple) has to be restored before Jesus can return…at which point they expect the Jews to either convert _en masse_ or go to Hell. They support Israel because of their own religious agenda but they don’t really respect Judaism as a religion or accept Jews as spiritual peers. That would explain his comment. ---
**Author:** ![Stinkum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Stinkum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stinkum)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopranos-4-2-open-spoilers/351010/29 "2006-04-03T04:49:01Z")
We had terrible storms go through during the show, and I probably missed some in my “pixelated” edition (and the fact I hightailed it to the basement during the last few minutes and missed the preview). First thought: Paulie is a goner. When Tony finds out he’s threatening the Barone kid, there is no excuse Paulie can give to weasel out of a whacking. He was in the room when Tony promised the mom protection for her son. Being upset about your aunt being your bio-mother isn’t an excuse. Bobby is an idiot. I’m sorry, there’s no easy way to say it. Shooting that wanna-be rapper in the butt is going to bring down a storm on his head. Maybe someone will come along and shoot up his choo-choo trains. 😃 Carmella sensing the Vito is someone who needs to be watched, and telling Tony about it indicated to me that she has at least come to some emotional terms with her marriage. Also, I think she’s being very protective of Tony at the moment. We’ll see how long that lasts. And Christopher’s tirade about the T-Rex chasing Adam and Eve was hysterical. He’s obviously given the subject some thought. :rolleyes: Overall a good episode. I would have loved to see more of the Holbrook character in the next episode, but I don’t think that’s going to happen. The evangelical pastor set up some interesting speculation about Tony “redeeming” himself. But it ain’t gonna happen. ---
**Author:** ![Quasimodal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/57b2e6/32.png) [@Quasimodal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quasimodal)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopranos-4-2-open-spoilers/351010/30 "2006-04-03T05:34:56Z")
This was a FUNNY episode! So many good lines. “You mean like on the Flintstones?” “Oh look, heres the bird of prey” “I found Jimmy Hoffa” I can’t remember the words, but whatever Paulie said to the priest after he found out about his mom was priceless. That dinosaur book looks like it came out of one of those costco discount book bins. I found almost everything the smug evangelicals said was funny. I was expecting Janice’s old boyfriend to fall asleep at any moment. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopranos-4-2-open-spoilers/351010/31 "2006-04-03T05:44:53Z")
> [@Stinkum](#): > > And Christopher’s tirade about the T-Rex chasing Adam and Eve was hysterical. He’s obviously given the subject some thought. :rolleyes: Chris is a dope, but that was very funny stuff. Actually, that’s _why_ it was funny. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopranos-4-2-open-spoilers/351010/32 "2006-04-03T05:45:46Z")
This was a very philosophical episode. (Actually, this entire season has been more philosophy than action. So far.) I liked the book on dinosaurs, and how the terrifying monsters (that may or may not have attacked Adam and Eve in Eden) changed into pretty, carefree birdies. Like ducks. I loved the scene when everyone is watching boxing. The setup sounds like some kind of joke: “So, a mob boss, a gangsta rapper, and a scientist from Bell Labs are in the same hospital room …” But I think the diversity just reinforced the idea expressed by the scientist. All these people, apparantly different in many ways, really aren’t separate entities at all. They’re all on essentially the same journey through life, with many of the same problems. The scene where the guy joked about Tony whacking him made me wonder if the writers were foreshadowing what might happen to Uncle Jr. I’m tentatively predicting something like a mercy killing. Now please excuse me as I go off on a bit of a ramble. Paulie is, as others have noted, sociopathic in the extreme. I think the story with his mother helps reinforce (or reinterpret) some overarching themes of the show. Ever since scene one of episode one of season one, the show has been about family. If you had to sum up the theme of the show in one word, that’s the one you’d use. One of the great things about the show is how it displays similarities and differences between Tony’s two families. The rules are different in each. Each has its own form of moral reasoning and code of conduct. There are times when things bleed over from one realm to the other. (For example, Jackie Jr.) However, it’s mostly been the case that there are two Tonys: the one whose moral circle includes his biological family, and the one whose moral circle includes his crime family. Much of the conflict in the show comes from the clashing of these moral circles. One example among many is terrorism. Tony needs unsecured ports for part of his business. Yet, unsecured ports raised the spectre of a terrorist attack that could hurt his family. Season five was largely about this type of conflict. The most blatant example of this was the bear. The bear was drawn to the Soprano household by the food Tony used to feed his ducks. As a metaphore, this means that Tony’s method of providing for his family also brings the possibility of great harm to them. Tony has said on several occassions that you can only trust your family. Paulie says in this episode that you can’t even trust them. So, I think Paulie’s feelings about his mother are supposed to highlight the fact that family is family is family, regardless of actual blood relations. We’re supposed to see him as a selfish jerk, because his aunt really was his mom in every respect except biology. Paulie is upset because his formerly clear dichotomy of moral circles has become confused. The idea that true family might mean more than a particular blood relation unnerves him. If it’s possible for someone who isn’t even your “real” mom to be your mom, then theoretically anybody is open for moral consideration. Unlike Paulie, I think that Tony will attempt to reconcile his two circles. Carmella gave uncharacteristic advice about Tony’s line of work. AJ has shown interest in getting involved in at least one aspect of things. We have the scene in the hospital room with the discussion of how nobody is really separate from anyone else. We have the plot about a son who has been kept out of the loop on mafia matters, which causes problems down the road for him. That’s my prediction regarding the overarching theme of Tony Soprano this season. If I’m right, I still don’t know what effect it will have. Will it lead to a kinder, gentler mob boss (who will get eaten for lunch by New York)? Will it lead to greater involvement in the Family by his family? Will some other synthesis be achieved? [/ramble] ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Who](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Doctor\_Who](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Who)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopranos-4-2-open-spoilers/351010/33 "2006-04-03T05:56:37Z")
> [@Quasimodal](#): > > This was a FUNNY episode! So many good lines. Best line was Christopha’s: Tony: “Do you realize that if you took all the time that humans have been on the earth and compared it to the Empire State Building, it would be a postage stamp on the top of the Empire State Building. Humans have only been on this planet for such a tiny time, and in this great big universe, we’re just so insignificant…”\* Chrisopha: “I don’t feel that way.” - Apologies for the terrible paraphrase. I laughed my ass off. The Doctor ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopranos-4-2-open-spoilers/351010/34 "2006-04-03T06:18:59Z")
That was Christopher in a nutshell, wasn’t it? **BlackKnight** ’s quality post reminds me of two other things I meant to say. The first is the contrast between Paulie’s family situation and Tony’s - one which Paulie was stupid enough to mention out loud. Paulie was going on and on about how abandoned and deceived he was, even called himself “the victim” and said the aunt who raised him was leaching off him, while Tony had to go through so much worse. Learning that your ‘aunt’ was your mother would be shocking, of course, but the way he reacted was so terrible and self-absorbed. The other is the way they set up parallels between gangsta rap and the mob: I mentioned the “original G” line - I’d say gangsta rap occupies the place in pop culture or youth culture that the Mafia occupied thirty years ago, give or take. And then we saw the rapper who’d been shot seven times was lying in pain while his agent and manager or whoever were talking about his street cred and career timing. The way they were using him was so transparent and, in many ways, similar to the way Tony and his crew have used people. Or similar to the way Phil was using Tony’s weakness. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopranos-4-2-open-spoilers/351010/35 "2006-04-03T06:28:21Z")
> [@Quasimodal](#): > > I found almost everything the smug evangelicals said was funny. The scenes with the evangelicals were right. out. of a Chick Tract. All the pastor needed was a pencil mustache. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopranos-4-2-open-spoilers/351010/36 "2006-04-03T06:52:22Z")
> [@Stinkum](#): > > First thought: Paulie is a goner. When Tony finds out he’s threatening the Barone kid, there is no excuse Paulie can give to weasel out of a whacking. He was in the room when Tony promised the mom protection for her son. Being upset about your aunt being your bio-mother isn’t an excuse. What I wonder about is whether the possibility that Paulie’s biological father may not be Italian will affect his status as a “made” man. Right now, Tony is the only other person in “the family” who knows about Paulie’s parentage and it would be interesting to see if this becomes a factor later. Of course, with this show it’s just as likely Tony will let this fact go and we’ll never hear about it again. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopranos-4-2-open-spoilers/351010/37 "2006-04-03T08:32:59Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > The scenes with the evangelicals were right. out. of a Chick Tract. All the pastor needed was a pencil mustache. I noticed that too. His name was even _Bob_. ---
**Author:** ![lorene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/65b543/32.png) [@lorene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lorene)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopranos-4-2-open-spoilers/351010/38 "2006-04-03T10:36:32Z")
> [@Quasimodal](#): > > I can’t remember the words, but whatever Paulie said to the priest after he found out about his mom was priceless. I could not stop laughing at that one. “A fuck of a lot better than those nuns you’ve got up there”, or something like that—delivered with the big-eyed serious face. Chris and Paulie really do get the funniest lines in this series. > [@Quasimodal](#): > > I found almost everything the smug evangelicals said was funny. I was expecting Janice’s old boyfriend to fall asleep at any moment. Did you see the T-shirt he was wearing? “Terri Shiavo vigil…You go, girl!” Wow. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopranos-4-2-open-spoilers/351010/39 "2006-04-03T10:58:04Z")
What does Tony think the Inn at the Oaks was? Was it hell? Or heaven? Or something else? This seems important to him (obviously). I thought it was hell. After all, his mom was there, an evil person if ever one existed. But my wife pointed out there were kids running up to the house, though you never see them enter. I guess it’s deliberately ambiguous. ---
**Author:** ![marymargaret](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@marymargaret](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marymargaret)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopranos-4-2-open-spoilers/351010/40 "2006-04-03T11:15:55Z")
I missed the previews for next week. Did it give any hints as to Tony keeping his softer side? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopranos-4-2-open-spoilers/351010.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sopranos-4-2-open-spoilers/351010.md?page=3)